MANY PLAYERS DEFENDING CHEATING, WE NEED PROTECTION FOR VANILLA PLAY

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Comments

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    The GoJ main was so bad. It was afaik only dark on ultra settings (which I use) but every killer who played on low could see you.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Sadly not, I played on low and the thing was always dark on PC, I think the problem did not even exist on some consoles? Not too sure about that one, but on Pc regardless of the settings I used you could not see anything.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Yeah same, but for some reason they managed the spaghetti code in a way that to add this feature they would to re write the whole game apparently... No clue how they even managed this... Not like a replay function was that new in 2016... But in all honesty considering how often random things break when they bring out a new patch they should probably rewrite the whole game regardless as it would make such stuff way easier and it would overall probably more time saving.

  • kaoraku
    kaoraku Member Posts: 249

    Of course it is allowed, since they cannot do anything to prevent using it...

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Yeah so what exactly is the point? If cheating is defined by the rules of the game, that are made by the developers and they allow using certain things, like crosshair or filters... How is it cheating? That's like saying something is a crime despite it not being labeled as such in any law...

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,846

    I see both sides of this argument.

    While it's true us consolers cannot apply filters or mess around with frame rates, for some reason DBD has very few built in graphic options (and for sound and for controllers...) that are very common nowadays in successful games.

    But the argument of "just buy a PC" is not viable right now either, not without Cross Progression available. In the unlikely event Cross Progression comes, then yeah maybe. I think many consolers feel quite trapped and boxed in, just because they happen to run DBD on their machines. Choice of platform shouldn't matter as much as it does with this game.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    I mean that sounds more of a reason to be mad at bhvr for having terrible choices for settings in the game, and not really an issue with pc players using what they have at hand to make up for how terrible the design is when it comes to the variety of settings you have... Honestly this game has less options to change in your settings than some 15 year old games I had... This should be unacceptable nowadays, but apparently nobody cries loud enough about it so people just take it.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,887
    edited December 2023

    I'd say it is, just as much as people who lower their graphics to the lowest possible settings in shooters to remove all bushes and grass so they can spot people miles away when those people would otherwise be able to use grass as cover to approach more safely.

    It really makes the game a lot more sucky when you are forced to make the game look like absolute garbage just to stay competitive.

    You're essentially making their experience a lot more terrible by soft forcing them to downgrade their gaming experience to stay competitive for the sake of trying to get an unfair edge over the them...I'd say it's considered unsportsmanlike. You aren't just playing the game as intended, you're directly strongly encouraging them to have to do the same to keep the balance fair. That's affecting their gaming experience in the real world.

    So there are two elements.

    1. You're effectively setting the bar for people to be encouraged to lower their gaming experience to stay competitive.

    2. You're taking away their strategy of utilizing the game world in a clever way. They go out of their way to duck into the shadows, but nope, you can see them without any issue while they CANNOT do the same to you. It's cheap; it's dirty. Literally an unfair advantage.

  • CountDrunku
    CountDrunku Member Posts: 8

    I am a new, console player to this community. And I have not been hurt by any "cheaters". I've been playing for a month, almost completed the Rift, and still earning plenty of blood points.

    There's been some awesome, fun, bad, and angry matches. I lose, win, and have fun. Everything you stated has not been a problem for me. As a matter of fact, how do you even know if the games you've played have been plagued by your version of cheating?

    And, if you do not want to play against PC, turn off crossplay.

    You do not have a good idea. And, if you need to be told point by point why it isn't a great idea, then.... have fun being angry. No one is going takes seriously.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,887
    edited December 2023

    Welcome aboard! He is coming from the fact that filter use is a very popular thing in the community. He's just bringing up the topic of how common place it's becoming. Almost every streamer has their brightness up incredibly high where even pitch black shadows look clear as day. It does make their game look like total crap, however.

    Just clarifying that it's not someone with a conspiracy theory - filter use is fairly common here.


    Here is an example

    You can essentially see anyone from any distance as long as they are in view, and you can make their clothes super bright vs whiting out everything else.

  • CountDrunku
    CountDrunku Member Posts: 8

    Thanks for the info!

    Still doesn't really bother me, to be honest lol. We got people running around in neon colors and costumes. Some maps, darkness doesn't even exist. If they want their games to look like crap, fine.

    If the original poster doesn't want to play with PC, he should just turn off crossplay.

    It's completely crazy trying to lockdown the output device. If you're playing the game, you don't even know if the Killer is using a filter.

    Its just all dumb. I only commented because the original poster made... well, there's a lot in the OP lol.

  • caligraph
    caligraph Member Posts: 359
    edited December 2023

    Filters are not cheating. They dont provide any information that isnt already in the game. If making colors look different is cheating, is SWF cheating too? After all you are using a 3rd party program that grants a competitive advantage. I wouldn't agree with that but the logic is sound.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    Don't bother. That Troll will just say "cheat" to anything that is not in the game, even if it literally does nothing (like custom icons).

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,887
    edited December 2023

    Doesn't really bother me since it's not some hardcore competitive game. Just pointing out what they are trying to bring up. I think it's lame personally, but it's not really worth worrying about it. Devs won't do anything about it anyway, and I'm in it for the theme as opposed to sweating to win. That's why my ghostie wears the og black outfit instead of the super good bush camo with the scarecrow mask. Less effective? Sure...but ya can't beat the classic look!

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    You are using settings that are in the game, I don't think that can ever be considered unsportsmanlike... No matter your reason for it.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,439

    Nah this game is just straight up disgusting without filters. Literally just turning gamma and brightness up 10% each makes you feel like you can actually see all objects.

    Anyway, stay in the dark sewage water gameplay bud.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,887
    edited December 2023

    We aren't talking about ingame settings. We are talking about external filters. If you're talking about the grass example, those are also not ingame as they involve editing .ini files.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634
  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,320

    They absolutely can, at least reshade/nvidia filters. Many games have blocked Reshade, and they could just opt out of NVIDIA filters by telling NVIDIA they want to do so which is again something other games have done no problem.

    The fact they haven't when it's not like it's some sort of secret or anything makes it seem like a pretty safe bet they don't consider them undesirable to begin with to me.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,887

    Again, I'm talking about people who modify the game files to lower the setting further than what ingame options allow. This entire discussion is about using modifications to the game outside of what's possible ingame.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    I don't really see an issue with that? You do realise people were basically forced to change stuff in the files, because of how bad the settings we have were? (And still are to be quite honest) There was no option for Vsync or to turn of Anti Aliasing and What not... This is just not acceptable for a modern game and it is totally fair to do that in the files then.

  • kit_mason
    kit_mason Member Posts: 286

    It's apparent that we have gotten to a point where cheating is accepted in DBD and seems to be praised amongst the community.

    Let's make this abundantly clear first of all - your definition of cheating is "adding cute alternative images to perks" and "making the game brighter or easier to percieve for those with issues with sight" as cheating, and your intentional omission of what you mean by "cheating" is incredibly telling. Nobody is out here in support of blatant cheats - speed hacks, wall, that sort of thing. What the community is entirely indifferent to is perk images or brightness/color alterations.

    I will now recommend that we add in a system that traps cheaters and makes them feel extremely useless and will ultimately eradicate the dbd cheating problem forever, this is a live service game through in and throughout and should never ever be able to be modified or even have files being manipulated to gain a huge advantage amongst the vanilla players.

    It's not a "huge" advantage. It's at best a slight advantage or a levelling of the playing field. If I brighten my game with my monitor's hardware settings, should I get banned too for having a "huge" advantage? Or am I just playing the game brighter than it was intended?

    I recommend a system that with the EULA agreement to authorize a legitimate phone number so players of dbd can be kept in check and if you have anything in your file structure that is not of the vanilla settings to be immediately banned and have all loss of progress across the board to make sure that no cheat is ever allowed again.

    This is where your suggestion stopped being ridiculous and began being dangerous. Requiring players to hand over personal details like a phone number, which will have to be verified, checked, and stored long-term by the devs, is a huge cost for preventing people from swapping out the pictures of their perks to slightly different ones, both in terms of actual money but also in man hours to create and ensure this system is working and will not end up leaking the phone numbers of tens of thousands of players, a not insignificant amount of which are in vulnerable groups like LGBTQ+ folk.

    Even presuming the system works perfectly and everyone is somehow on board with handing a video game developer their phone number, which many won't be, how many chapter releases would you like to forgo whilst this system is implemented? Two? Three? Maybe a round four?

    And, more realistically, the system won't work perfectly. Even should it not leak private data, cheaters will, as they always have, find a workaround. The implication that tying your game to a phone number will prevent cheating is ridiculous because nothing will ever truly prevent cheating once and for all short of perhaps the servers shutting down and the game being done. The risks for a complete lack of benefit highlight that any suggestion along these lines should be heavily and seriously reconsidered.

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 171

    If you have a better idea mention it, unless you are on the side of the cheaters which I believe you are defending them. The legitimate phone number is a harsh one sure, but I don't see any other way to eradicate the cheaters other than these devs having to hire tons and tons of help which would cost way too much money, bvhr should not have to do this and its players should grow up and stop abusing the game. Look, this is a live service game and it's clear that we need a far better system then the one that we have because the cheaters/modders situation is getting worse and worse with dbd. I have had enough of us vanilla players having to play 24 times better than someone who can just easily abuse the exe without consequence. It's killing the player base and losing bvhr a lot of money. And you can easily find phone numbers on the internet or even through the govt directories so I don't see how this would pertain to any issues of danger. And already, I would rather have my phone number leaked than my ip address manipulated since you can obtain a lot more info than you ever could on that than with a phone number. So already your "dangerous" narrative that you are trying to set is quite ridiculous.

    I just want the cheats gone completely, I don't care what you do with your monitor, I only care if its modded content, I want it gone forever along with those players that use it as well. You guys who keep bringing your monitors up in this discussion are just straight up dramatic and are completely missing the point. This game is straight up miserable facing cheaters because anything in dbd that is altered to your advantage brings you up by a mile over the other player (thats not even an exaggeration a literal mile) no monitor setting is going to do that in dbd. Im not doing this for likes, Im not doing this because I want recognition, I want these devs to have more and more options on how to deal with this problem without having to blow a bunch of money. And hey if it's a bad idea im sure they will catch it regardless. Because they have an amazing product here and it would be a shame for more and more players to leave it because they peaked and now constantly face cheaters. It really never had to come to any of this idea if everyone played fair, but they are not and they need to be punished from playing dbd so the actual players that spend money on the game can enjoy the game instead of being discouraged from it.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Love how you call other people overdramatic while you are unable to accept that the devs allowed filters and won't ban anymore for it, same with crosshair, but you still cannot over it... Get over it dude, it is not cheating if they allow it. Also nice hyperbel, yeah sure filters make it thaaaaaat much easier xD

  • kit_mason
    kit_mason Member Posts: 286

    As I always do with replies that I believe reach a length that falls beyond what is reasonable for a forum discussion about a video game, I'll cut all but the parts I want to most directly address. Additionally, I am going to intentionally avoid discussing the risks of maintaining a mobile phone database with you - I fail to see any progress with that conversation, so there's no point even discussing it, even if my position remains that it would very directly endanger the well-being of people that play DBD. With that in mind:

    If you have a better idea mention it, unless you are on the side of the cheaters which I believe you are defending them.

    Once again, you misrepresent the arguments of those that support filters or custom perk icons. Nobody is advocating for "cheaters" as a blanket statement. Given you read my prior post, it appears this discussion is entirely about filters, which by vaguely referring to them as cheaters it makes arguments against you sound tantamount to someone supporting having a speed hack turned on all the time, which nobody on here would ever support.

    I have had enough of us vanilla players having to play 24 times better than someone who can just easily abuse the exe without consequence.

    Cheaters - actual ones, as in the ones using wallhacks or speed alterations and the like - are banned all the time. BHVR can't talk about it, of course - video game hacking is an arms race, as BHVR improve their systems and hackers find workarounds - but be assured they do ban cheaters, as they're often very loud to complain when their account gets rightfully banned for using said cheats.

    It's killing the player base and losing bvhr a lot of money.

    Except that it likely isn't. At least on Steam, DBD boasts a very stable playerbase, and I'd presume that console DBD is in a similar situation. Were it to be costing BHVR a lot of money, they would be investing more in dealing with these issues, rather than implying crosshair filters are okay, as they did in their most recent AMA.

    You guys who keep bringing your monitors up in this discussion are just straight up dramatic and are completely missing the point.

    You are either:

    • arguing that people are advocating for cheats that get you banned (such as wall hacks, speed hacks, etc), which nobody is.
    • arguing that filters should get you banned, in which case "much of what people do with filters can be achieved by most hardware settings on monitors nowadays" becomes a relevant response.

    Please, go ahead and point out which of those two options it is.

    I agree cheats are awful to go against, but from what your post implies, our definitions of cheating seem wildly different, as I consider BHVR's existing actions regarding cheating to be sufficient.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    No you just want it because you think you are entitled to.

    That does not mean, that you are right with your statement (which you are not).

    How does changing icons in the UI make me play better? (Hint: it does not). Those are just png which do nothing to the exe. They are files you can access by just opening the game's folder. If you don't know how tools like Nightlight work, you should Google it before you make assumptions about it. Oh and btw: you can also copy the png files to the folders without tools, but it takes longer.

    You say changing monitor settings are fine, but I can do the same with AMD adrenaline (my GPU driver), which just applies the settings when it detects me playing DBD, which just adds QOL for me (I do not neet to revert monitor settings after playing). It does not change the exe. This is cheating in your opinion (which it is not according to the devs).

    I do not support true cheaters (speed hackers, lag switchers, teleports etc) at all, btw. But your definition of "cheats" is so ridiculous. Not to mention your "methods" which will "cure" dbd from said cheaters. You might be fine in giving up your phone number, but I bet a large majority is not. Not to mention that doing so probably violates a lot of laws like EU privacy laws. Maybe you don't care in the US, but you are not the world.

    I get the impression you are on one hand ignorant and on the other hand envious that PC players can do simple costumisation to the game like icons while you are stuck with vanilla dbd.

    If it's the first reason, then do yourself and us a favor and consult Google. If it's the latter: maybe advocate for more costumisation options instead instead of hating and framing those who use these legally.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,427

    If the reports were just dealt with, the last 2-3 reports i filled with clear video evidence had no actions taken. Im done reporting, wasting my time on a clumsy system that takes me 15-25 mins just to make 1 report. (it should not be our job in the first place).

    I even bounced the videos by a couple of friends before sending them in, they both agreed that it was cheaters.

    I have wasted enough time on that, ill just skip forward to the next game.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    Mine were all dealt with as of today. Maybe I am lucky. I don't know.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,427

    Had a guy who was not affected by Legions killer instinct, there are noting in the game that can block that.

    The reply i had from bhvr was :

    thank you for reaching out to us! We apologize for the late response, since we have been receiving a huge number of tickets recently! But we're here now, happy to look into your report.

     

    Thank you so much for reaching out to us about this - I'm sorry that you've encountered this player potentially breaking our rules and showing behaviour that interfered with the flow of the game by avoiding detection against Killer Instinct while you were playing as The Legion. Thanks for keeping an eye out and letting us know of these situations! The descriptions of what you noticed and how you've taken care in attaching these videos and timestamps and the detailedness of your report are a great help to our investigation as well!

    Rest assured we'll take a look at this and take additional action if it is needed. If an in-game report was filed, you can use the in-game Report Feedback to know if a report you made has been investigated and actioned upon! 

    To help you prep in case you encounter any other situations, you can find out more info on our Game Rules. This article gives you the details about what is considered bannable, the types of bans, and what to look out for! We strongly encourage the use of the in-game reporting tool and any supporting evidence you want to include when creating a support ticket, and we'll be sure to investigate anything you send us.

    Again, we're really grateful for your dedication in making this game fair and enjoyable for everyone! If you run into any other issues or need help with anything else, you can reach out to us anytime.

     

    See you in The Fog,

    And all sounds nice, but i never got any confirmation of anything

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    If it was before they added in-game report feedback, you will never know unless the cheater was on steam.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,427

    the date of the reply is : Nov 20, 2023, 11:33 EST

    Sadly its after that system, ill see if i can censor the videos later if you want to see them? :)

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,126

    I don’t think we are the ones you need to convince OP, it’s the devs.

    Especially when they have come out to say they are ok with people using crosshairs which would probably fall under “cheating” by your definition.

    You could acquire BHVR, then you have the freedom to implement whatever vision you have for the game. Just know that I wouldn’t play dbd if someone like you was in charge and decided to implement draconian measures like phone number verification.

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 171

    This is a live service game, there's no amount of convincing that is going to remove mine or many other vanilla players opinions on cheating. If you play non vanilla, you are a cheater plain and simple and should be dealt with immediately, so we don't have to deal with any of these issues in the first place. There's no amount of spam you can type that will change anyone's mind on this issue especially after someone has encountered the said cheaters repeatedly. In the EULA it directly states that any sort of modification to the files of the game is not allowed. You have no hill to stand on and are wasting your time.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    The EULA directly states, as I quoted before, that unless they allowed it... Which they did. So you are barking up the wrong tree here.

    Well then, unfortunately the devs don't agree with your definition of cheating, as well as the vast majority of other players, therefore tough luck buddy.

  • kit_mason
    kit_mason Member Posts: 286


    Archol already covered the EULA (thanks for that) so I'll cover one more point that isn't just me repeating myself.

    There's no amount of spam you can type that will change anyone's mind on this issue especially after someone has encountered the said cheaters repeatedly

    You have zero vanilla way of knowing if someone has altered the way their game looks, especially if they're achieving those alterations with hardware rather than software. So are you just assigning your losses to perk icon alterations and basic brightness adjustments or something along those lines? There's a million reasons why a game results in a loss, and someone's perks being pink instead of purple isn't one of them.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218
    edited December 2023

    Please explain how this

    lets me be better at the game.

    Because it seems that, according to you, I miss some important magic happening with costumised icons if you think they are cheats.

    If you can't explain, your argument is invalid.