Upcoming Sadako Re-Rework
First I want to give big props to the team for not giving up on Sadako. It really made my day when I heard the news that she would be reworked again and reverted to something closer to her original state. I won't talk too much about her current problems because it sounds like you've already identified them, I'd rather give my hopes and ideas for what can make her the best she can be for survivors and killers going forward.
CHASE:
- PLEASE revert her demanifested state so that she can start chase while demanifested. Demanifest is a fun stealth AND chase tool, and stealth hits are rarely struck on characters who are already running anyway. In practice this effect only made it so that she would lose bloodlust/window block progress by using her power. This is like Wraith, but critically, SHE IS NOT WRAITH, she's not fast while demanifested and she can't bodyblock survivors while demanifested either.
- On the same token, please revert Reiko's watch :) Maybe even make some of the flicker add-ons basekit!
- I just want to have SOME power I feel I can use in longer chases because without that, I know people will be railroaded into running several chase perks, watering down the unique feeling of playing the character.
MOBILITY:
- My main hope here is that there will no longer be a delay on teleportation, and that TVs can be spammed in quick succession. I assume global condemned is being reverted and this will be possible in the new Sadako 3.0. The new TV cooldowns are nice, but I'm sure you guys know the appropriate numbers for condemned management.
STEALTH:
- I have no notes. This has been a consistent part of her kit from the beginning, well-balanced. I'm hoping she keeps this quality :)
TRACKING:
- A note/bugfix: TVs play white noise VFX and audio when no survivor is within 16m, otherwise they play the cursed video visuals and audio- except when a survivor then leaves the range of the TV, it plays white noise visuals but cursed video audio. It's SUCH a cool little feature of hers, and I'd love to see this fixed so that TVs always play the correct visuals and audio at the same time.
- A lot of Sadako mains I talk to miss the survivor HUD rings glowing as a result of a successful teleportation. I assume this will be back if global condemned is done away with, but wanted to mention it anyway!
CONDEMNED:
- This is a complex feature and I'm sure it causes a lot of headaches in trying to balance it. Kudos to you guys for creating a character who REALLY truly gives survivors and the killer an alternate objective. I love condemned and I really hope you won't nerf it to being obsolete.
- If we're going back to proximity condemned, lower TV cooldowns and maybe a wider 'blast radius' on proxy condemned could be a way forward- 24m to be consistent with her terror radius?
- PLEASE add a way to spread condemned through hooks. This feature was something I was so excited to see in the initial announcement of "Sadako 2.0", but sadly it did not make it to live. I truly believe she could be a killer who could sometimes win a game through hooks, sometimes win a game with 0 hooks, and sometimes succeed with BOTH, using hooks to snowball her condemned pressure. She can and should have the flexbility to do all of this if we really want to see the end of 'slugging sadako'.
ADD-ONS:
- Again.. please revert Reiko's watch :)
- Rethink iri tape as a reward for condemned play. It could apply some kind of chase debuff to survivors carrying videotapes, or perhaps it could apply the exposed status effect to a max-condemned survivor. I am TIRED of this add-on feeling like a must, but I don't want it to be nerfed into irrelevancy. It would be nicer as a dessert for mastering the character.
- I believe pinwheel and sea-soaked cloth would be more interesting as add-ons that apply debuffs to survivors carrying video tapes. Asking the killer not to use part of their power to apply an 'invisible' effect just doesn't feel as satisfying IMO.
THANK YOU for reading and whatever happens, thank you for putting even more effort into my favorite character in all of gaming <3
Comments
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If they destroy condemn as a viable method of killing people, I think they can really lean into the Demanifestation theme in chase.
So, yeah, buff flicker for both Demanifest and Manifested, and I also think it'd be neat if while Manifesting, she could pass through windows/walls/pallets at an additional movement speed penalty (-15% or -20%). I wouldn't want something like that usable in every case, otherwise it's just boring, but I think that'd add a neat little chase dynamic if balanced properly.
Projection could also get a nice big increase for lethality. I think doubling the movement speed boost would be very fun. Having played against her a lot at this point, Projection being so telegraphed makes it really punishing for her to use in chase, so a big buff to that movement boost would be sweet to keep up.
If they want to still keep Condemn relevant, tying Condemn gain to more active play would be better, I.E applying Condemn on Manifest/Projection hits.
Either way I think she has a lot of potential to become a lot more fun mechanically.
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This post explains my feelings and hopes towards Sadako better than I ever could.
The Sadako rework removed almost everything that made her the most fun character for me and many others. What felt even worse was that we all predicted exactly how problematic the rework would be in our feedback but got zero response from the devs on any of the posts.
So when another rework was announced I was hyped to say the least, I just hope that this time the devs actually listens to the community and the players who have thousands of hours played on this character. April’s post here is great reference point, so is her older posts on the forum.
Thanks to bhvr for not giving up on our girl from the well. Hopefully this time they’ll nail it and make her FUN again with more ways for a player to express their skill with her, something that’s missing on the current version of her.
See you in the fog everyone <3
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I don't think anything said that this was gonna be a second rework it's more likely just gonna be a few tweaks to what she is capable of.
Simple things that I think could improve the quality of life for Sadako
- Tv's that are ON are highlighted to survivors within 8 meters so that it's easier to find tapes
- condemn numbers are slightly toned down.
- More frequent teleports would be nice
- fix some of her add-ons's they reworked how her power works and left some add-ons unchanged like vhs recorder that gives survivors tapes right away which is a negative add-on.
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I really hope the old one with no cooldows comes back, because that was why I played her and loved her.
My ideas: (I focus on her old version)
Tvs
- Very short to no cooldowns so people if they want to take your ability away to be everywhere instant they have to take a tape
- TVs also have a area around them where you get condemned (when on) just by being close and looking at the clip on the Tv you get more passive condemned
Tp
- speed boost after crawling out of the tv
- looking around while crawling out of an tv to have a better orientation in chase
- the radius close to the tvs which give you condemned gets increased and splitted in three parts. First radius around the radius from before her rework 0,5 stacks, in the radius before her rework 1 stack and close to the TVs 2 stacks. So that you would be rewarded to chase survivors into TVs.
- condemned should be applied as you are crawling out of the tv instead of after you crawled out of the tv
Demanifast/Manifast
- Faster switch between both forms
- more lagging and glitching around, so that survivors have a harder time tracking you
- pallet immunity like now
- chase count as chases in demanifast
- The demanifast glitching should stay longer after switching
- I would also like her terror radius to return in demanifasted mode so people would be scared and run into me, because they don‘t know from where I come. As I started playing against her I did that quite often. I heard the terror radius, then I started to run and she just appeared out of nowhere in front of me.
Tapes
- I would want the tapes to be like before the rework, because in the current form I don‘t like that people switch off TVs only to counter condemned. If it was willingly it would be fine, but so I hate it.
- With short-no TV cooldown you have to pick one up, otherwise she can tp around all the time. So the tv shuts down for 50-70s after taking one.
- Also with the tapes you don‘t get the passive condemned from being close to the Tv. Instead the tape gives you condemned by holding it.
- After putting it back in the tv you lose stacks of condemned
- I also would like if you only have one tv to put the tape like before
She shouldn’t have her lullaby shown in the visual heartbeat. I copied and changed some parts from my former post.
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Thank you so much for all you do! 💕
Im a P100 Onyro.
Some of my Suggestions/Ideas for new rework sadako early 2024 💕
CONDEMN
*Remove global condemn. Survivors will be condemned within 16 meters of any tv upon teleporting. 1stack
*Tapes: revert tapes. Now give passive condemn while holding onto it with one stack added to your meter. (Like before…Also lore accurate)
*Injuring: Hitting a survivor with a tape destroys the tape. 1 stack of condemn is given to the survivor. (Or 0 stacks but tape is definitely destroyed)
*TV’s: Being within 8 meters of a tv slowly builds condemn. Even more if you’re looking at the tv. (Or just while looking at the tv. Very Lore accurate. I would LOVE this.)
Yoichis fishing net should be reverted. 12% faster condenming when holding a tape or within 8 meters of a TV. (We don’t need 2 blindness addons)
PTB edit - they could bring back when a survivor gets hooked with a tape it’s destroyed and all other survivors get 1 stack. (Very neat feature, but if not doable or too strong with other ideas then forget it :)
Survivors will have less frustration as well because they’re not constantly being condemned globally by the killer spamming the button.
Overall more lore accurate for her too :)
STEALTH/DEMANIFESTED
💕Her stealth definitely needs some love though.💕(Just my opinion)
Ideas 💡
*Manifested at 24 meters you see her.
*In her power (Demanifested) at 24 meters you see her? Why? Visibility should be reduced to 16 or 18 meters while in power. Not the same while NOT in power. (Perhaps make clump of hair basekit?)
*Phasing in and out should be a slower flickering. People see you a mile away coming. If they don’t see you they hear the lullaby. Wraith is quiter and harder to see.
*Soften the lullaby’s loudness a bit.
*While demanifested, no chase activates. Don’t change please. (The point is to sneak up on them. Otherwise they know you’re coming. Frustrating.)
*No pallet stuns while demanifested.
Shes a stealth killer. The game literally says “She’s a stealth killer that quietly and invisibly traverses the map” this couldn’t be further from the truth 🤣🤣
wraith is significantly more quiet and invisible! She’s a ghost! If anything, she should be more quiet and invisible than him. :)
This would help make her harder to track and more in line with (stealth) since she has 0 anti loop or chase. Which I am fine with. 💕
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I really like your thoughts. I agree with about 90% of your post and ideas. We seem to have very similar ideas on our post which is cool! 💕
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The only thing I disagree is that chases should activate in her ability, because right now a survivor can vault infinitely without blocking the window.
That everyone gets condemned around TVs, I don‘t know how different it would be to her right now. I like it more than the current one. What would you think of having three areas around a TV, where you get 0,5atack (20-16m) then 1stack (16-10m) and close 2stacks (10-0m).
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I really enjoy your thoughts!
They could just make bloody fingernails basic, and that would fix the projection speed! You’re absolutely right the time people hear you coming out of the TV from the loud, audio queue, there four miles away.
Fingernails as base kit would help her catch up a little bit.
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I just hope I get my favorite killer back. I never condemned someone on purpose before the rework, so her new version was very bad for me and now I couldn‘t just tp around like before. I stopped playing her since then. I hope we get our everywhere being killer back. It’s really cool to have someone with a similar opinion. I started some post in the past about this topic. Most people just said the new one is better stronger etc, but no one said she is more fun, which was my point in the past.
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Great post, I think an improvement on og sadako would be to make the tape placement tv more consistent, like the furthest one on the map from where they removed a tape, would help especially on smaller maps where the highlighted tv was hard to identify
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Ahh I see your point. I do agree with you on that. It is frustrating not having the entity block the window. 💯
I just hate when chases give me away while in power 😭
Also yes, I do like the 3 step radius to condemn. Closer you are to the tv the more condemn you get.
By lore too, looking at the TVs should be condemning you as well. (Maybe passively builds up slowly?)
You’re not suppose to watch the tape. Your cursing yourself each second or glance you watch it.
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Sorry I meant:
Remove global condemn. Survivors will be condemned within 16 meters of any tv upon teleporting. 1stack
I don‘t know how different that would be to her current version, but you could just disable the tv so I think it would be good, balanced.
Getting condemned passively around TVs, which show the clip and looking at it makes the passive condemned fill up faster is a great idea.
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As someone who has learned to vibe with her current iteration, these are all good suggestions for a rework. My biggest concern was the lack of condemned play if they reverted her back, considering how easy it was to avoid before. But you make some good arguments for enhancements to it without being too oppressive and keep it as a secondary objective survivors need to focus on as well. Kudos!
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They're going to nerf Sadako. They said it will be a rework but the rework will be used to nerf her. She probably has the highest or 2nd highest kill rate currently. Remember that Sadako had top kill rates pre-rework and the rework made her even a bigger pub stomper, further increasing her kill rate. They need to address her pub stomping aspect, which I discuss here https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/398464/upcoming-onryo-update-suggestion#latest.
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Completely agree, and actually I strongly feel she needs a nerf in some ways to encourage more skilled play with her. Right now she's more or less a "survivor makes some tactical mistakes and they die" killer, I don't love that at all.
That being said I think she could go back to the way she was in most ways, take some power from some annoying add-ons and buff aspects of her basekit to see her stay strong in the right hands.
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