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Killers pushing the match to 60 minutes mark shouldnt be rewarded.
Context: There are killers that are defending 3-gens on purpouse to push the match til the 60 min mark. After this, the match ends and survivors dies, counting as if the killer did kill all 4 survivors. (killed by boredom)
IMO this should count as a lost match for both sides, because no one did accomplish his objective (finish gens and escaping, or killing survivors). Giving the win to the killer in this scenario its only a really toxic way to promote this boring and toxic gameplay. Doesnt matter if 3-gening is solved or not in a near future, this shouldnt count as a win for any side.
Tho im really discouraged because this probably wouldnt change anything, people playing like this has some kind of psycological pathology, and wouldnt stop doing it. Its just really dissapointing seeing that the game is rewarding this kind of gameplay.
Comments
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It's not necessarily toxic. The killer is doing their objective. If survivors want out they can just give up.
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They're not doing their objective. They're exploiting a mechanism designed to punish survivors who don't do their objective.
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Their objective is to stop survivors from powering the gates and kill them. That 2nd line doesn't really make any sense...
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DBD doesn't track wins and losses. It's also on the survivors for not finishing the gens.
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By the 60 minute mark, the entity is killing the survivors because the killer has failed to complete their objective.
Stopping the survivors from powering the gates isn't a killer objective. You can still 4k while the gates are fully open (see: blood warden and other end game builds).
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What else should happen? You cannot have the match end in a Schroedinger's loss for both sides. Either the survivors die or they escape. There is no other option.
Ideally, we should try to make this redundant. A match shouldn't go on for 60 minutes, no matter who does what. My suggestion is to modify the anti 3 gen mechanic in a way. If the survivors do end up 3 genning themselves without the killer forcing it, then the killer should eventually grow stronger the longer the match goes. After 30+ minutes they could gain a permanent 15% haste (ridiculously overpowered, just to end the match). If the killer does end up forcing a 3 gen, then the mechanic should solve this issue.
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60 minutes of not killing survivors is not exactly "kill them".
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I don't agree
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yes, they're actively cheesing the mechanism that punishes the genrush and refusing to take any steps as a power role in order to finish the game.
if killer is incapable of breaking 3 gen stalemate there's only 2 possible reasons this is happening: 1) they actually can do that, they just don't understand that / refuse to do that; 2) they are outclassed so badly, they should just take the L and the only reason they're still going is because survivors are not bothering enough.
either way this means that they should leave their 3 gen and commit to that chase eventually and let it end one way or another.
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I agree with this! I haven't had a match that's lasted that long but I have had matches last about 35 ish minutes and all are in the 3 gen stand off criteria. I never purposely hold exclusively from the beginning a 3 gen but if the survivors 3 gen themselves then I'm going to defend it. That being said if all survivors are left and only 3 gens are left to me they've won, I'll pick one to kill and leave the others to the gen. If they save their teammate then better more hooks for me.
Killers gotta stop looking at kills as a means of winning. If you destroy the survivors with 4 gens left and then let them all leave you still won, I mean do you you really need the iri emblems to tell you how good you are? Ive had plenty of matches trying to master trick shots on huntress where I won personally because of how many crazy shots I hit.
Last 3 genning simply to drag the games out is wildly stupid and will always be toxic af. I mean you could literally increase survs gen speed and killers haste til the last Gen pops or a surv is put on a hook. You could also make it to where instead of the gen speed increase all 3 gens progress as the one being worked on.
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This just gave me an awesome idea. Extend it to gen progression as well and make late games go even faster.
Heck, faster movement/actions/vaulting the works for both sides.
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That would have some consequences on the overall of the game too, which I do not think should happen as a result of haste. It's basically a miracle that the game works as well as it does with the movement speeds we have. Increasing them, while maybe fun, could have the potential to break that balance.
Keep in mind, the faster both sides move, the more impactful every little imperfection will be. So mind games could end in guaranteed hits (which would not feel great to play against) and depending on how these changes are done, most structures could become either super safe or super unsafe. It's more risky than I'd like.
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I mostly mean for those games that reach the 40 minute mark, not just in general.
By then most pallets are gone and you're stuck in that 3 gen scenario anyway. But then again it's just a fun thought, hopefully their solution for 3 gen helps avoid it.
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If it drags on too long I just give them the kill so I can move on. If they want it that bad they can have it, my time is more valuable to me. Probably your best option.
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If the survivor wants to die, they can just run to the killer and die. If the match goes to 60 minutes, it means the survivors are also purposely stalling the game likely by hiding, which is considered holding the game hostage. The 60 minute time limit for survivors should kill survivors rather than give all escapes since it forces survivors to progress the game rather than afk hide. If the 60 minute time limit gave all escapes, survivors could just hide all match to escape, even if the killer wasn't 3 genning. It would create a new problem where swfs hide for 60 minutes to escape.
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Then that means in a 3 gen situation, the survivors have basically 0 chance of winning.
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They could make it like the hatch where it doesn't count as a win for either
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Killers gotta stop looking at kills as a means of winning. If you destroy the survivors with 4 gens left and then let them all leave you still won, I mean do you you really need the iri emblems to tell you how good you are? Ive had plenty of matches trying to master trick shots on huntress where I won personally because of how many crazy shots I hit.
I dont really share this sentiment, i consider kills as the only real win condition in this game. That said, no kind of win requires going such lengths as holding 3 gen till the server closes.
I feel like the main issue with 3 genning is that killer possess infinite regression resource, as almost all the time survivors get uncounterable 3 gens against killers who take CoB/Overcharge/Eruption combo and just cycle between gens, endlessly kicking them and getting meaningful regression from that. Part of 3 gen solution could be reworking these perks to make them no longer work in the long run.
Like, make it so CoB can only regress up to 1 whole generator worth of progress throughout the entire game, but buff the regression rate to 300%, do the same with Overcharge and Eruption - buff numbers, make them finite.
It's fine if killer can hold 3 gen while the killer still has resources for that, but eventually they have to run out of them and, imo, it's better if it's the killer that runs out of regression, than survivors run out of healing.
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I mean if kills is your only win condition and you have 4 alive with 1 gen left then I'm sorry bro 9/10 times with a semi competent team your losing. You shouldn't get rewarded for holding the game out that nor should the game even be allowed to go that long. An hour in one match is wildly stupid.
I do agree with the killer running out of resources or regressive kicks. At the end of the day it's a double edged sword because both sides are not wanting to throw the game, when said killer's TR is heard the survs pre run and killer kicks an empty gen, killer doesn't chase running surv in the distance because they know that's gonna throw the game, most people won't care and eventually get bored and throw the game by chasing said surv. On the flip side you have survs who also don't want to throw so they'll run the killer away from the gen being worked on instead of staying and letting the killer down them. Once again most players will get bored and throw.
The point is the game shouldn't go past like 20 minutes with one gen left honestly. End the game already let the entity kill the survs and shame the killer for not doing their only purpose. Everyone leaves with whatever BP they've earned and get no pips/de-pips, then move on to the next match.
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Wrong. They either somehow pressure their way through before that happens or they don't 3 gen themselves. If a killer forces the 3 gen, the upcoming anti 3 gen solution should fix this. But I honestly don't see why survivors shouldn't be punished for their recklessness. Both sides should think about how they play at least a little.
And be honest, how many times have you had a match as survivor that you still won after 30 minutes in a 3 gen? I have had one of these and only because the killer eventually was done and gave up. In all instances, we lost. Because if you can't break through before that happens, then there is little chance that will change later on. A DBD game should never be dragged out that long. This idea is only a suggestion to force the game to end somehow.
If you aren't one of these special breed chess players, then you probably don't want to play out such a long game anyway. But the killer cannot really commit to a chase (else they'd lose the last gen) and you probably don't want to ######### intentionally either.
That is only the case as far as MMR is concerned and who cares about MMR that much? As far the game is concerned, a survivor either lives or dies. There is no in-between. A hatch escape counts as surviving in that sense. There is even a score event for it called "Hatch Escape" and the icon in the after game lobby displays you as alive. So a hatch escape is an escape in all measurements but MMR.
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like I said, it's fine for killer to give themselves a window to turn the game in their favour by defending 3 gen, but it should be a resource killer needs to use strategically, rather than just mindlessly overcommitting to defending gens until the server shuts down.
the stalemate needs to be resolved naturally by one of the sides eventually becoming unable to go on and the best way to do it is make killer eventually exhaust 3 gen. frankly, i find issue only in said infinite regression which gets multiplied by powers that provide map control which get misused and cheesed horribly.
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and get punished for it anyway?
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What about survivor duos that just sit and hide for 60 minutes?
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Since the gen kick meta ended i haven't have had a match go past the 20 min mark
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Some 3 gens are so strong, that a killer could choose to hold them at the start, and then abuse this new growing stronger thing.
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Please read the first few lines again. I said, that this should be added in combination with their upcoming 3 gen solution. So if the killer tries to abuse this, it won't work. Or at least it shouldn't.
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