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Dbd has no reward system
I haven't spent a single bloodpoint for months. I don't care about the rift.
Where are the actual rewards for proper plays?
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It's very straightforward. It's a video game. You're rewarded by having a good time. If you're not having a good time, stop playing the video game.
There are no rewards from any games unless you're a MLG pro gamer.
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Something to climb towards like a ranking system. Right now there is nothing. That pip and grade system is totally meaningless and now it's gone from my screen until I open up my profile.
I want to see a leaderboard see how much I did my objective at the end of the match. I want to see something.
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Like the ranks we used to have?
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find another game
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Exactly this.
When did we forget about the fun and just focus on what extras do you get for playing?
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Completely agree. Stale game - could use innovation which is why they're finally considering other game modes. I'm in the same boat as you, actual in-game rewards you earn like a extremely unique cosmetic or adding a cool lil effect around the prestige borders. Its doesn't have to be something crazy. But give something to work towards.
"its a party game, not a competitive game". Yea, while you can say its more lax than a competitive shooter, its definitely got competition since ya know, its PvP. IMO a party game is like Fall Guys or Party Animals. Its chill, relaxed fun. How many times have you seen just on this forum alone, how many people are burnt out or not enjoying DbD anymore? People want to win, not meme around and joke, ruin a match, etc. Not only that, but its already been stated that solo que is actually the majority of the playerbase.
I'd love a ranked mode, just add some requirements to que it like a minimum prestige level much like other games do. I'd actually be willing to bet money players who have taken a break or quit, will come back at the very least to check out Ranked.
But yea, all we get are bloodpoints. Which is just tedious to constantly spend. Give something for people to climb to or work towards. P100 means absolutely nothing besides you play the game a lot. It doesn't indicate anything else. Thats why there's plenty of P100s that play like they're P1s and vice versa.
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this is why I’ve wanted stat pages ingame
Would be nice to have a personal best chase time area
or how fast you complete games
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Or the overall BP earned or matches I had. I'm not interested in looking up some of this info externally.
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DbD really isn't suited for competitive ladders.
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I do so wish this were the truth. Maybe in the beginning it was but it has shaped into a pretty competitive game over the years.
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This ain't no party game
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I wish I could use BP to buy Iri Shards. Even if it was a hyperexpensive exchange like 5000 BP for 1 Shard, it'd still be something to do with them.
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People insisting it's a party game doesn't mean it also can't be played competitively. The game does a horrible job of respecting the time and effort that more competitive players put into it. There's no reason BHVR can't implement a ranked queue for those players. DbD's average concurrent player count is so much higher than other games that maintain casual and competitive queues. It's a cop out when they say they don't want to split the population.
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That would be the exact same thing that happens now in the one queue we have. Nothing would change. That's what pubs currently are. Whichever side is sweating harder typically wins.
It's not a problem unique to DbD. Ranks, leaderboards, and competition are what make a competitive queue for fun for that crowd. Attach those to a ranked queue and many of those players would gravitate towards it. Most sweatlords are going to chase it if they can have their name on a leaderboard or a shiny rank next to their name. Pub stompers will want to pub stomp in any game though. There are premades that run in quickplay in Overwatch. Rocket League has a massive smurfing problem. It happens. And it happens whether there's one queue or separate queues.
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Funny that you don't see the contradiction in saying "It is a party game" continued with "Escape/kills highten your MMR".
This is a competitive PVP game with a ranked system, only that for some reason (a big part of the community that like you still want to believe it is a party game, if I had to bet) they hide our rank from us even if showing it would solve many things. In fact, it is so competitive that it doesn't even have an unranked "for fun" queue when other games made with E-Sports in mind have it.
I think is time for you people to realize that the only way to play this game as "a party game" is playing with other 4 people in a custom match, and for BHVR to show us our MMRs.
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Can I ask, why do you say that this game doesn't have a win condition?
It pretty clearly does, at least in the broad shape. It isn't ambiguous for survivor: your win condition is escaping. For killer it's a little more vague, in that the game itself doesn't make it particularly clear if a 3K counts or if it has to be a 4K, but the broad shape of the win condition is pretty clearly sacrificing survivors.
I genuinely don't understand how someone can come to the conclusion any game that isn't a pure sandbox doesn't have a win condition. Could you elaborate a bit?
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Lol. A game rated M for Mature, with this much violence, and a rank system that resets every month is not a party game.
This is a PvP multiplayer, horror game. Check out the DbD website. Does it mention "party game" there? How about in the marketing on their socials? Twitter description?
If you want a party game, Mario Party is a great start 👌
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why people think of this game as competitive I mean it is but game so random that even if you play your best something random could happen that out of your control like hackers,survivors killing there self on first hook or being farmed tunneled genrushed or some random bug.
either way this game to bugged and random to be competitive or leader board no one should care because of the random bs that can and will happen.
I mean I still feel they should get rid of de pipping.
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This happens in almost every game w/ a ranked que. A good recent example is THE FINALS, which just released & is super popular.
The sweats unlock ranked but even Shroud (omega FPS god) has gone on record saying that a lot more sweating happens in the quick plays, especially b/c people are teaming up with their friends verus others who are solo, not as experienced, etc.
It happened in OW, OW2, R6, etc. It happens. Not a reason not to implement. Ranked players who are competitive, sometimes want to just relax and not worry about MMR/their position.To you, they might be sweating in a QP match, but to them, they're just playing the match out like they usually do. Everyone deserves to have a break when they feel like it & not be blamed for ruining QP just cause they're a competitive player.
And this already happens in DbD so it'd change nothing.
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It does however split the amount of players in a Q. It may make the wait times longer, maybe not, but now you've got 2 Qs the devs had to put work into that ultimately wouldn't change anything. We don't particularly care about separate Qs but since it wouldn't do anything, we'd rather the devs do something more meaningful.
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The reward is you enjoyed yourself. Anything past that should be a bonus. Why do you need more rewards for "proper plays" on a game?
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Mmmmmm, yes us proper fancy players deserve to be recompensed for our player etiquette, like lifting our pinky while playing the game, or saying “Good day sir” to a face camping bubba.
Call the reward package “Proper plays by proper players”.
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The que times could go up,down or not change very much. I genuinely think a lot of people would play ranked. There are many 'competitive players' that have a good mentality, don't give up on first hook, don't d/c b/c of a certain killer. People who didn't join *competitive dbd teams* to play in the DbDLeague but want to test themselves. I think there are a lot of players who fit in to that category. People who are good at the game but don't have a team to practice with or against.
This game's been out, coming up on 8 years. This whole 'the reward is you booted the game up and enjoyed yourself' is not enough. Not in a game like this where its as frustrating to have a bad match or you were set up to lose in as compared to when you win a match and you still don't feel like its anything special. Sure some outlier matches, but for the most part - winning doesn't feel as good as it should and losing feels just as bad as it always does, especially when you had no chance or someone decides to throw the match when it could have been won.
Most people that have been playing this game for years or sometime now, have a love/hate relationship w/ DbD. I'd love a change. It doesn't need to be ranked per say, I just want something to do that actually means something in this game. There's no value of experience. The closest thing to 'oh wow look at that player!' is a P100 badge that just means you play a lot & load BP offerings every match.
Game's just really stale. Glad they're at least looking into other game modes, so thats a start I suppose.
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As survivor, you can play a team based game if you want. Even if you escape and the others don't, its a loss. You can even say if its a 1k its a win, even if you die.
You could also evaluate your performance on the overall point score or any other metric that you wish. BHVR supports that based on comments I've seen, though I've always found the games lack of clear win conditions very strange.
Funny that you don't see the contradiction in saying "It is a party game" continued with "Escape/kills highten your MMR".There isn't. MMR is meant to match players of similar playstyle against each other, not just skill. If you min/max your role, expect to run into other people who do the same, if you bring kind of random perks and just play around you're supposed to get the same from others.
Also 'party game' is a term that lacks clarity. It means different things to different people.
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I don't suppose you've got a link to where they said that on hand? That sounds like a wild thing to say about this game in particular.
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I mean I do think they could shake up the bloodweb and what you can send BP on. Once you've played the game long enough you have plenty of items, offerings and addons on all your characters and earning and spending BP just becomes completely hollow.
I barely even look at what's on the web and just press auto-spend every time. I may look out for puddings/cakes and BPS but again, why bother increasing BP earned when there's nothing to spend it on.
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Still waiting and hoping for a fat, juicy, plump P100 reward one day.
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Whether or not Q times goes up or not we can keep guessing all day, but again it doesn't really change anything (or atleast anything positive that we see). Why put the work into it when you could put it into something else? "Casuals" will still get people playing like their lives depends on it while "ranked" will have EVERYONE like that. Then again no one knows, maybe you'll get people who will play till the end, or maybe you'll get the same quitters as always.
Why isn't it enough? They game is ment for entertainment in the way the devs want, not catering to everyone. We maybe a bit different than everyone but we just don't CARE about winning or losing, we want an exciting hunt as killer and an exciting match as survivor. No more no less. Nothing we can do about people quitting like children when someone goes down before a gen pops. When you win we gotta ask "why isn't this satisfying?". It's it the way you won? The survivors giving up? Making separate Qs won't really change how you feel on wins and losses.
Not entirely sure what you mean in this paragraph so we'd like clarification before we eat our own feet.
The game gets stale when playing a long time (surprised we haven't burnt out yet).
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B/c again, its been nearly 8 years and there's nothing new besides killers/survivors (which are exciting for like the first few matches and then its back to the same old) and the occasional map. If other developers can do it for other games, whats holding back BHVR? Its not like they're the same small company they started out as in 2016.
We have over 240 perks, 34 killers & 39 survivors. I think were good on that front, lol.
As for balance/QoL, everyone knows BHVR is incredibly slow when it comes to that sort of stuff, or in other words, not as important to them as other things are.
Well no, in ranked there should definitely be a bigger punishment if you d/c or give up prematurely. Just like any ranked system in any other game w/ it. Not a slap on the wrist timeout for 1-5m. People would be incentivized to play a match out rather than leave b/c 1) their rank is on the line & 2) knowing there's a 0 tolerance to that sort of stuff and punishments will be much more severe. I'm sure some people will still leave or give up, it happens in other games too, but it'd be a lot less in comparison to quick play.
Its not enough b/c your rationale can be applied to literally every PvP game on the market today. Every game is meant to be 'entertainment'. So what makes BHVR so different from all these other game companies that do it? They all give you rewards for your time played or for earning a certain benchmark/goal/rank. Whose 'we'? I care about losing and winning. I want to win. I'm playing a PvP "horror" game. It doesn't feel good to lose and it doesn't feel satisfying to win. Some people just want what you mentioned, a good chase, back and forth, etc. I get it. But that can be for the 'casuals' and quick play enjoyers if thats all they really care about.
Winning isn't satisfying = its a whole list of things and different scenarios & situations that occur in a match. It could be as simple as a survivor giving up and griefing his entire team while I play killer. Or you doing 4 gens for your team and being the only 1 who makes it out by the end b/c your teammates just wanted to get altruism points and engage in chases. Making separate ques would enhance wins and would make losses probably a lot more manageable, considering you'd be playing with people who all WANT TO WIN. So the matches would hypothetically be a lot closer, people would have better map/situation awareness & urgency. For ex, if I climb a ranked system and I can get to the top MMR, its safe to say your quality of teammates and opponents will be better too b/c it won't be matching you against new players, casuals who want to meme, or people who just want a 'good chase'. Decision making will be a lot better, people would run the very good perks rather than sub-par or just straight up garbage ones. I disagree that a separate que would not change how I feel on losses/wins. I think it would.
If the game gets stale for the people who play a long time, what do you say to the people who find it stale after only a few matches and want to already close the game? The game hasn't evolved or gone in any other direction besides 'hey lets add some killers, maps, cosmetics and survivors'. As for burning out, I think most of us do & just end up taking breaks. We never fully quit.
Spice this game up. Nearly 8 years. Bring on those new game modes at least. Some lil chaotic fun.
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Then why depips are still in game?
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Well we did this to ourselves... this game started as a party game
But then we were told who the strongest things in the game were and that changed everything
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Some things don't need to keep changing. But at this point we're feeling it's a matter of opposite opinions.
We have a cynical view of human nature (with reasons to back it up on this game here). The harsher penalties wouldn't do much, but this is speculation on both our parts.
(We is the 3 of us who share this account) We call that pandering to ppls. The companies aren't obligated to give rewards, they just want to do people will feel better about whatever. No game needs to reward anyone, but they do it anyway cause they want to. Your free to believe as you want but we are too and we believe those factors you listed wouldn't go away just because your in a ranked Q. Hell we know if we went to ranked we wouldn't be running meta even if you paid us.
We would say the game isn't for them then. We're not opposed to new modes, but if it changes so that it's a completely different game, they may as well have made a new game.
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... what? Where the hell have you take that from? The MMR system is literally a counter, it goes up or down depending on your win/loses. It has nothing to do with how you get that win or loses. Seriously, dare to explain how you deciding to "use random perks and play around" makes a game with a ranked system based on skill a party game?.
And I think the term "party game" in gaming is pretty clear: A multiplayer game, usually with simple controls and low skill ceiling, to be played for the sake of it to have fun, normally with friends. Basically, the same concept as a table top game, but being a video game.
A high skill competitive PvP game, by nature, is not a party game.The moment you need a minimum game sense and you are faced against strangers in matches according to your rank there is no possibility for playing it as a party game unless you play with friends in private lobbies. Simple as that.
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Yeah, that's how a rank system work. You win or lose games and if you keep winning you get to higher ranks, facing players of your same rank, until you reach max rank because if it was infinite it won't be a rank, it would be just a number.
Don't know how you got that MMR having a top makes that first, everybody reaches that top, second that it means that the game is not really ranked and so it is a party game.
In other words, you are so wrong.
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Seriously, dare to explain how you deciding to "use random perks and play around" makes a game with a ranked system based on skill a party game?.Sure. The game has powerful perks and sweat addons that will make you stronger. This will lead to you escaping/killing more. This will result in you playing against 'harder' competition, most likely those who are using similar build types. There will be outliers, either people so good at the game that they are at the higher level, or so bad they are at a lower level. But the average player in the average game will be matched up with players using a similar playstyle.
But you can also look to what the Devs have said (first half is the most relevant):
Over enough plays, the math will average out your games to reflect your playstyle against people who match that playstyle.
And I think the term "party game" in gaming is pretty clear: A multiplayer game, usually with simple controls and low skill ceiling, to be played for the sake of it to have fun, normally with friends. Basically, the same concept as a table top game, but being a video game.I don't think that's what people mean at all. A party game has skill and competition, but emphasizes fun elements over balance. Not every map/killer has to be balanced, instead they should add variety and fun to the game. People don't want anything that is too broken, but the fact that the game has a ton of random elements is not a detraction, but something that makes it appealing.
You brought up tabletop games. Take Settlers of Catan, its a competitive game, has random elements, and can easily be played by a family every couple of months, but lots of people play it in more intense competitive tournament settings.
I don't like the term party game because any game can be a party game or a competitive game depending upon how you approach it.
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Sure. [...]
Dude, you are describing exactly how a ranked system works to argue that the game is not ranked.
The same with the dev description. What he says there is every single game with a skill based ranked system in existence, so doesn't matter how many mental gymnastics do you want to add on top of it, you are only proving me right.
In fact, you can argue that precisely the main problem of the MMR system in DbD is that it doesn't take into account skill at all, as it only count win or loses. So, doesn't matter if you had looped the killer for 5 minutes, repaired 4 gens by yourself or if you had left every survivor at last hook during the match, if you end up losing is -20 MMR rating for you.
I don't think that's what people mean at all. [...]
Well, they are wrong. A party game, by definition, is what I described.
And true, every party game can be a played as a competitive game if you set additional rules on top of it, in fact Tetris is played competitively even today, also Monopoly. The key point here is what you said about Settles of Catan: "can easily be played by a family".
Again, a party game is a game with low skill ceiling and easy entry point designed to be played mainly with friends just for the fun of it. You can't put your non-gaming mother to play DbD online against strangers and expect her to do good or be able to compete at the game, even if you tell her exactly how to play. That's the difference.
First, from the Wiki, which base it's articles in patch notes, devs talks and data mining the game:
Skill Brackets
Players of ranked Trials in Dead by Daylight are sorted into so-called "Skill Brackets", depending on their MMR:
- Players with 650 points are newcomers and put into the "Testing Skill Bracket".
- Players with 900 to 1,000 points are in the "Bottom Skill Bracket".
- Players with 1,600+ points are in the "Top Skill Bracket".
- This bracket is the widest, as it encompasses all Players with MMR scores up to the maximum of 3,000 points.
- Players with 2,000 to 2,200 points tend to be professional Dead by Daylight Players, such as streamers and content creators, due to how frequently they play.
- Players with 2,400 to 2,500 points are the most proficient Dead by Daylight Players.
Caps
- Players with 2,100 points reach the "Soft Cap" of the MMR system.
- Reaching this cap will significantly reduce gains towards their MMR.
- Players with 3,000 points reach the "Hard Cap" of the MMR system.
- Reaching this cap will suspend any further gains towards their MMR.
So, at minimum, we have 3 hard coded skill brackets right now with people above 2000 being considered the "top":
- 0 - 900
- 900 - 1600
- 1600 - 3000
Second, even if the game didn't had any "rank bracket" the point still maintains, as again, in any game with a SMM system the bracket only represent a certain part of your "rank number" (usually with some cool name like "Platinum", "Emperor", etc.). The difference comes in how the game uses that number to do matchmaking. In the case of DbD, when you have hit a rating of 1600 it would try to match you against people with the closest rating to yours, ergo, if you have 2500 rating it would try to find someone with also 2500 rating.
So, just as I said: "You win or lose games and if you keep winning you get to higher ranks, facing players of your same rank, until you reach max rank because if it was infinite it won't be a rank, it would be just a number", brackets or not.
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
The fact that mmr is hidden and insanely loose is evidence it's a 'party game'.
MMR was introduced purely to separate the casuals from the sweats precisely so people didn't need to play competitively all the time.
It is not a ranking system in any meaningful way.
The fact that there is no defined win condition and no way to objectively evaluate skill, both of which are essential for a true ranking system, means it can never be a truly competitive game.
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Is there a reason you don't spend bloodpoints? They should be infinitely useful even if you've unlocked all perks, as you can continuously get more items, addons, and offerings, on any character, which can always be helpful in a match or make gameplay more fun.
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The difference is the 2 sides are generally equally matched for that. Both sides have sweat lords and both sides have casuals. This is an asymmetrical game... If as a killer, I want to bring my A game, I'm not gonna have a memer teammate balancing me out.
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Why do so many people keep saying there's no win condition? What do people think is the mechanism that causes MMR to move up or down?
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But it still makes players to try hard, feel bad when losing and makes the game hyper competive. Depips should be removed if it's just party game? Im fine doubling or tripling the amount the pips then to get on the red grade.
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Dude, you are describing exactly how a ranked system works to argue that the game is not ranked.That doesn't sound like anything I said.
Here's your original sentence that I first commented on
Funny that you don't see the contradiction in saying "It is a party game" continued with "Escape/kills highten your MMR".If you want to play DbD casually and just enjoy, you can. If you want to play it extremely competitively, you can. The MMR will put you into brackets related to how you play and, broadly, match you against similar player types. (generally speaking, with the system breaking down more outside peak hours)
The mistake, which most people make, is also related to a comment of yours
So, doesn't matter if you had looped the killer for 5 minutes, repaired 4 gens by yourself or if you had left every survivor at last hook during the match, if you end up losing is -20 MMR rating for you.Things like this don't matter mathematically. If you are player who is some combination of skilled/sweaty you will escape/kill more. Any individual game will have variance, but it will not impact the overall MMR in a meaningful way. Put simply, if you have enough data about outcomes, you don't need to know how the outcomes were arrived at for sorting players.
The way you play will impact where you end up in the MMR. Play it casually, expect to get more players who are also casual.
Well, they are wrong. A party game, by definition, is what I described.Not sure where you are going for a definition as I see no formal definition of the phrase 'party game'. I see a British definition of 'games played at a party' which is axiomatic. I see a wikipedia article with no sources for the phrase. I see a video game definition of games consisting of short mini-games, which DbD has never been anywhere close to being.
And true, every party game can be a played as a competitive game if you set additional rules on top of it, in fact Tetris is playedDbD has no win condition. Every person talking about wins and losses is literally doing what you describe here, taking a party game and putting additional win conditions on it to make it not a party game.
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Again, from the wiki:
Survivors
Survivors gain points towards their MMR by escaping from ranked Trials and lose points for dying:
- Dying in the Trial is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Escaping through the Hatch is considered a draw.
- Escaping through the Exit Gate is considered a win towards MMR.
Important: the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating only considers the escape of a Survivor through the Exit Gate when calculating its final MMR score, and does not care how much that Survivor contributed towards the main objectives during the Trial itself.
Killers
Killers gain points towards their MMR for killing Survivors in ranked Trials and lose points if they manage to escape:
- Killing 0 or 1 Survivor(s) is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Killing 2 Survivors is considered a draw.
- Killing 3 or 4 Survivors is considered a win towards MMR.
Important: the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating only considers the death of Survivors (or their failure to escape) when calculating its final MMR score, and does not care how that death occurred.
Whether a Survivor died because of being sacrificed, being killed by the Killer's own hand, or being bled-out, or even how many times they were hooked, is of no concern to the MMR system, they will all count as kills.
There you have your "win condition". It is a ranked system in all ways possible and I still don't know why you all insist in negate the empirical evidence. In fact, the real problem here is that our rank is hidden from us while being a ranked game.
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
If you want to play DbD casually and just enjoy, you can. If you want to play it extremely competitively, you can. The MMR will put you into brackets related to how you play and, broadly, match you against similar player types.
You mean like any skill based ranking system in the world, again? Because guess what? If you play it casually, you would lose (something that you should not mind if you play the game "just for fun" anyways), so you are going to have a low MMR, ergo you are going to be paired with other people that have a low MMR. Even your mind gymnastics contradicts your point!
Things like this don't matter mathematically. If you are player who is some combination of skilled/sweaty you will escape/kill more. [...]
That part was about the MMR system "taking in count your skill" and what the dev said. It has nothing to do with the game being or not being a party game as it will not be a party game even if it would count everything you do in the match to rank you with a system like ELO (a system that would be so much better for a game like DbD that the current MMR, by the way, even if way more complex).
The way you play will impact where you end up in the MMR. Play it casually, expect to get more players who are also casual.
Again, yeah, that's what an skill rated based system is for. Still don't know how this makes the game a party game and not a competitive PvP game, specially when this kind of system are used in high skill ceiling competitive games to avoid the top people crushing on the low skill newcomers. If it was a party game with a low skill ceiling it would not need such a system.
Not sure where you are going for a definition as I see no formal definition of the phrase 'party game'. [...]
So, basically you find things like this, which directly contradicts you and proves me right:
"Party video games are commonly designed as a collection of simple minigames, designed to be intuitive and easy to control, and allow for competition between many players. Some, like the Mario Party series and Sonic Shuffle, are played on simulated game boards."
And your response is making excuses and more mental gymnastics to justify it not being an acceptable definition? Dude...
I see a video game definition of games consisting of short mini-games, which DbD has never been anywhere close to being.
You know why? Because DbD never was a party video game. Shocking, I know.
DbD has no win condition.
It has, you are wrong. Also, even if it didn't, I don't know how that would mean anything. I mean, many party games have win and lose conditions, so according to your logic this makes any game that has one not a party game?...
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
The magic of friendship, apparently.
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Who knows? The system doesn't even work most of the time.
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Maybe if our MMR was public, we could see if the system works or not...
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Always wanted some kind of character prestige/challenges to complete. X amount of time played, kills, hooks, correct use of power etc etc. So you can actually have a sense of perfecting/completing as many klllers as you like. I could play Plague tonight and the survivors won't have any idea that I've NEVER played Plague before, as opposed to playing my main who I've played for ages now.
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pretty sure the game ends when the surv escapes or killer kills everyone. seems lot like a win con
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