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Nerf Windows of Opportunity
I think people underestimate how much time this perk actually steals from the killer.
The times of survivors beeing overly stealthy are gone and looping is more and more common. Therefor having a single perk that shows you EVERY RESOURCE in your reach is completly broken.
When looping a killer resources like windows and pallets are crucial to gain distance, extend the chase, burn more of the killers time and escape.
There is a meta build out of windows of opportunity, resiliance, lithe and adrenalin. This build relies almost entirely on windows of opportunity. Survivors will try to bait you in a chase because they know where the resources are.
You cannot drop every chase with a woo user and it needs an atrocious amount of time to catch one.
This being said if you don't catch a survivor in a bad position this perk alone will extend the chase for a significant amount of time. This add's up when multiple people are using this perk.
Thats why it's too strong. Time is curcial for a killer and a perk which burns time in great amounts, is active without conditions infinitely is absolutely broken
Suggestions:
- Windows of opportunity only activates when in chase
- Max range is reduced from 32 meters to 28 (20/24/28)
- Once a pallet got dropped or a window/pallet is fast vaulted the perk goes on cooldown for 8 (12/10/8) seconds.
- You gain a stack for each pallet you dropped, window/pallet you fast vaulted in chase. At 4 stacks the perk deactivates until you are out of chase for 30 seconds, then all stacks are removed.
Comments
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I thought this perk was totally fine
You can counter this perk with perks that make survivors blinded, like Mind Breaker and Ultimate Weapon
18 -
I think it’s fine as is, that survivor still has to know how to loop and there’s many killers that have a power to help you catch them in chase. Also zoning is a very good tool against WoO not to mention there’s add ons for most killers that cause blindness. Personally i’d rather have and go up against a team that loops instead of excessively hiding it makes the game more interesting.
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Looping? That's so 2020.
WoO turns many (if not most) survivors into pre drop and Shift + W machines. This makes the game extremely boring. You cannot mind game Shift + W and it reduces the interactivity in chase (arguably the most fun part of DBD). The killer plays more against the map and perk than the survivor themself, while the survivor stops thinking and follows the glowing yellow boxes. Truly riveting gameplay. Zoning doesn't work in this situation either.
If WoO went on a cooldown every X seconds, it would actually encourage looping because that would eliminate its other use. You would still know where to go and buying yourself a bit of time by looping would reward you with more information.
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I mean these guys are pre dropping and running away anyway, woo just helps them stay informed as to where they can do just that
the people pre-dropping and not being efficient with loops and resources are exactly who benefit the most from this perk: beginners
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Pre-dropping does have counter-play, it’s go around, there are so many unsafe loops you can get a hit in at and if it’s a safe loop you’re just gonna have to break the pallet. As killer if you see their pre dropping you can also hide your stain (mind game) so they don’t know which side to be on and that’s a hit 9/10 times. I feel like most people forget that WoO gives the same info an experienced player would know but it doesn’t make them good at the game.
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At least they'd run into dead zones without WoO. Eventually every pallet is gone and they won't find any without it. Also, then I'd at least play against survivors that know maps. But as it is, not even that is the case.
Also, I know play time isn't an exact indicator of a player's skill but I'd hardly call someone with more than 1k hours (the least I see in my lobbies) a beginner. Yet they use WoO.
Good luck catching up to a survivor that pre drops. They will not stay at an unsafe loop. But pre drop the pallet to Block the killer's path and make more distance. Then they get to the next pallet or the pallet after that and repeat the process.
This has no counterplay. If the killer can't catch up, then they can't mind game to get a hit either.
If it is an experienced player, then I at least play against people that have a bit of knowledge about the game. Someone that would eventually run into dead zones or actually play around pallets, once enough pallets are gone. That is more fun and interactive than playing against people, that die the second their favorite crutch doesn't play the game for them. I mean, just try using UW. How many times do you have survivors that run past whatever pallet they get to because it isn't highlighted in yellow? I assure you, it's a lot. This happens even with people that have thousands of hours. Because crutching on WoO means you forget how to play the game without it.
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If a Survivor constantly pre-drops and takes no risk, then ya know what that means?
1: Chances are, they are not that good at looping when they run out of safe/god pallets.
2: For every pallet that's dropped (and that you broke) that's one less loop for him or other Survivors later on.
3: After everything's been pre-dropped, nearly every chases are free unless they find a strong window.
And if worst comes to worst and the Survivor can handle himself even without pre-dropping? There is no shame in dropping chase. In fact if you can't get a hit in around 30 seconds then you should consider leaving the chase anyway since 30 seconds is around 33% of a gen without perks/items/great skill checks.
WoO is the most newcomer-friendly perk and makes the new player experience much more bearable until you know the maps enough to play without it. It's especially good for SoloQ and newcomers since they can't/don't know what has been used and where are the deadzones (while SWF teams and/or experienced players have some of that information).
If you gut Windows it'll hit newcomers/casuals hard. It's not exactly complicated to understand that WoO, just like Distortion, does NOT make a Survivor better at the game. Sure Windows can make a chase a tad more difficult (at least more so than it should be if facing a newcomer or casual player) but all those dropped pallets are gonna be missing later and eventually the Survivors won't have anything and chases will become easy.
2 -
Oh believe me, people know exactly how much of a problem this perk is (it is the number 1 perk used by survivors for a reason). The thing is everybody plays dumb the moment the nerfing talk starts.
Things that you are going to see in any WoO post:
- It is a perk for new players, even if it is behind a DLC survivor and most people that just started playing the game would not even know the perk exist.
- It is not useful when you learn the maps, but you would see it mainly when you reach high MMR. There is a lot of people that still doesn't know the maps after hundreds of hours, apparently.
- You still need to know how to loop, even if most people that use WoO would just simply press W and go from pallet to pallet.
- Won't somebody please think of the SoloQ survivors!!!???... even if a SWF would mostly only inform of killer shack and most people would still use it even in a group.
- It is not that strong and not that many people use it, even if it has a 35% use in Nightlight and you see at least 3 per match most of the time.
And so, here we are.
And about your suggestions, I like the stacks one, but I would make it only 2. 4 stacks can basically be 4 pallets, which can be a whole gen at the speeds they get done nowdays.
EDIT: The perfect example of a WoO advocate.
Post edited by Batusalen on2 -
Do you understand how hard DBD is to play as a new survivor? Windows is an information perk and nothing more, how survivors use it is up to them. Players will always blame the perks and not self assess.
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Crying about Windows of Opportunity is the pinnacle of Killer Mains wanting low effort/low skill games.
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1, 2 and 3 would be good points, if my average match wouldn't last less than 6 minutes. There are very few maps where this play style doesn't work. On most, ypu have such an abundance of pallets, that it's enough to win. After all, for any slow down to happen, the killer first needs a down.
I can't believe dropping the chase is still used as a strawman. It didn't work with DH and doesn't work now. As soon as I drop chase, then these 30 seconds go to waste. Because the next survivor can easily repeat that. This wouldn't be the case, if they actually played good and tried to loop. Because then there would be someone that is at least slightly worse than the rest. But pre dropping and Shift + W is something everyone can do and because they will also have WoO, it doesn't matter that some pallets are out of the way. They'll still find more.
The funny thing is, that new players won't use WoO right away. Think about it. It's locked behind a character, that doesn't come with the base game and would first need to be unlocked. But for them to even know that there is such a perk it would already take a while. With all the other perks in the game it would just disappear in the crowd. Beginners mainly use the free perks and teachables of the original characters for that reason. You get them for free and they are the first perks you'll actually learn about. The rest comes with time. I wouldn't even have an issue, if WoO was a beginner perk. But it is used by people with thousands of hours.
The whole argument about solo queue is just as shallow. If they were to revert the perk to how it used to work, then you'd still have the information what resources around you are still up but you'd actually have to buy yourself some time before you get more information. So it would incentivise looping, which should be a core part of the game.
WoO doesn't make a survivor more skilled. But it does make them better. Any perk, that doesn't nerf you will. One of the main flaws of this game is that the most effective play styles aren't all that skillful. Look at comp survivors and how they play. You'll see a bunch of pre drops and Shift + W. This is what baby survivors do too and WoO only amplifies that.
If my chases become easy later on, then that's great, so that means I'll make a comeback, right? What, if I already lost by that point? Or what, if I only get to capitalise on it, when 4 gens are done and last is about to pop too? For me to turn that around, I would need to slug all of them and play a high tier killer. But then I'd also be able to play around their pre dropped pallets. This is one quality, that the big 3 (Nurse, Blight and Spirit) as well as the strongest A-tier killers have in common. But if played Freddy, then it doesn't work, because I'd have neither the mobility nor the power to end chases quickly. Even just Shift + W can buy you 15 seconds easily. Add an exhaustion perk and you'll last even longer. Without the use of any resources.
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DBD players looking what perk to complain after they nerfed the last one...
If you think WoO is OP, then use Zanshin Tactics, is the equivalent for killers
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just let WoO can't use in chase。
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I swear you guys are sometimes so dramatic. 💀
These are probably the top 5 most played killers. Basically everyone has something against looping and let's be real for a second: Most new or actively used killers lowkey encourage Pre Drop and W Meta. Like I will not start looping Crack Doll f.e. 💀
And by how some maps are nerfed etc. pallets are getting rarer every patch. Having someone pre drop basically wins you the game most of the time. WoO does not change your playstyle, it just tells you were the next pallet is. Any survivor who predrops anyway will have the same playstyle with or without WoO.
And we already have 2nd Chance Perks, some Chase Perks and healing nerfed. Like can survivors at least keep their Information and Stealth perks?
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WoO is fine, but the map layout is the problem.
WoO is also a necessity if you are playing solo or in a duo because having the information of which pallets are used and which not are essential for a good chase. Which is even more important in times when killers like to tunnel at 5 gens.
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The problem is that killers need all 4 perk slots to counter Gen speeds and shorten chases, while for survivor the use of WoO actually results in a benefit and not detriment.
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The way all the maps are getting changed and additional versions added, it's even too much to remember for veterans like me. Sry, but I will not re-learn 3xColdwind Farm, 5xMacMillan or 2xRed Forest. It's hard enough to learn new layouts.
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I would agree but stealth killer (especially the dredge, even though its not a real stealth killer with its integrated dyson v12) have a much harder time. Fearmonger/Mindbreaker is gone after 4 secods. A terrorradius is weakening every stealth killers base kit power. The dredge especially as it can't even controll when to drop nightfall. So UW doesn't work on these kind of killers. Killers with low mobility will also suffer from this because they have a harder time playing around high wall tiles.
I kind of dislike the idea, that the only counter for good survivors with WoO is to run UW or to be lucky. It ultimately means we would have to adapt all our builds on all killers to blind surivors just to avoid it. I don't think thats a good thing
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You obviously completly misread the topic the thread and every comment. I could now accuse you of just wanting an easy life as survivor. See how that is not leading us anywhere? We might have different opinions but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. What I personally want is a less frustrating game. As @Batusalen said this perk is a problem because most of the survivor use it. It probably wouldnt be if only 1 per team would have it.
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Your whole suggestion is definetly an overkill, but make it work only in chase seems interesting enough.
Thing is it's not perk I would like to see nerfed into oblivion. It's not that annoying for me unlike some other perks in past...
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I don't think there is a need to nerf it, after all, looping is something that requires skill. Even if you give Woo and the old dead hard to someone who has no talent, it will not be difficult to knock that person down. Also, just because it sees the location of the pallets and windows does not mean that it will loop well. In addition, even if the person memorizes the location of the pallets and windows on the map, he cannot know which pallet is broken or knocked over. Think of it this way, you are in a chase and you go to the pallet, then you see that the pallet is broken, so you get a ridiculous hit and go to the next place you think is the pallet. I mean, I don't think there's any need to nerf it.
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Ah, yes, the Survivor perk Windows of Opportunity can certainly be challenging for Killers as it alters the dynamic of planning movements before a chase. While it eliminates that aspect, assessing its balance requires considering factors such as win rates for players using the perk and other potential concerns. To address the first question, bHVR has access to statistics that would reveal whether the escape rate for Survivors with this perk is significantly better. Given its widespread use, the perk's strength might be downplayed in overall game balance statistics, which is based on a 2 dead/2 alive Survivor model. Aka. the current game model.
The second question revolves around the perk's convenience for players who may not invest as much time as others. Equipping this one perk allows for a more relaxed gaming experience. This inclusivity and accessibility aspect is a significant positive for the game and I think its worth considering if we would be gatekeeping the fun many people have with too harsh changes. In summary, I believe the perk should not be changed at the moment. If necessary adjustments were needed, bHVR would have the data to make informed decisions. While it might be a slight annoyance for me, the overall benefits it brings to the game are noteworthy.
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