Please don't gut STBFL.
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Yes, M1 killer. I am talking about M2-dependent killers.
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M2 dependent. Soooo.....
Slinger, Huntress and Nurse?
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I can see how it's a powerful combo for Clown but I think it's overrated and makes him unfun to play as, since you would probably be getting faster downs with tonics rather than getting satisfying tonic+antidote plays. With the Afterpiece Antidote he technically has base-kit Rapid if he plays his cards right. I usually just run perks that grant him map pressure or perks that allow for better mindgaming in chase such as Zanshin and All Ears.
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STBFL is one of the best perks for M1 killers since it allows for closing in distances with less pressure. If it gets gutted then I don't really know what to think, it's a powerful yet balanced perk.
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Wesker, Demo, Xeno, Deathslinger, Nemesis, even Chucky now.
They either M1 only or they hold their M2 for ages to save stacks.
The issue is people being too lazy to learn a killers power they use STBFL. I see so many Wesker's and Xenomorph's on NA servers that run STBFL, they only M1, and are never good with their power, which is the main reason they are using STBFL: because they aren't good with their M2. Hell, I've even gone against a P2? Blight in the past using STBFL and I wanted to throw up.
There isn't one excuse to why people are using it on killers with special attacks.
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Giving a notification to the Obsession that the perk is in play would be enough.
There is counterplay to the perk, just that the Obsession won’t notice the Killer has it especially in solo queue.
If swf can call out that a Killer has stbfl and have the obsession play altruistically, I don’t see why solo queue can’t be given the same information.
If the Obsession in solo queue knows the Killer has stbfl and refuses to take hits, that’s a player issue and not perk.
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My suggestion is the fairest as it can be
watch the devs gut the perk soon
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When people stop drawing their own conclusions and opinions, it becomes a problem.
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Deactivate it at endgame? So you spend all game earning the stacks then just lose them at end game when it's likely needed most?
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
I stand by what i said you shouldn't be able to bypass the ability for the obsession to counterplay you just because your killer has a special attack. It makes the perk uninteractive and uninteresting
It's too strong on demogorgon, shred makes it so easy to save stacks and it overshadows his power. It's really boring and frustrating to play against.
Interactivity is why i think it should be changed not balance reasons (except the affect on demo)
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The only nerf it needs is deactivation during EGC.
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What makes you think that you can decide on how people like to play? If someone wants to use Stbfl on Blight, they have all the right to do so. They bought the game. The got the Perk (probably from Myers). They have the right to play it.
Does it sometimes hinder a learning process? Yes.
Is this still a game, where it doesn't matter how you perform? Also yes.
For me btw.... Demo was the killer I started dbd with. He's the reason I play this game to begin with. Playing him for years at this point. I can do a ton of tricks with the shred, that catch a lot of survivors off guard. Guess which perk I never stopped using? Stbfl.
I love this perk and the extra chasing power it provides. Does that mean that I never use the shred? No. Not by a long shot. I use a mixture of m2 and m1. When I'm at 8 stacks, I can almost 2tap a survivor. M1 into M2 for a 4 seconds chase. That's honestly very satisfying and feels super rewarding. Is there better stuff, that can be used? Sure.
I also use huntress lullaby on Demo.
I use what I want to use. Nobody should blame me for it. Nobody should blame or shame anyone for using something in a video game.
If Id shame on every windows of opportunity player for using a perk that I honestly feel like hinders people from learning map layout and pathing, then I would be extremely exhausted by now.
So I don't. Everyone can use what they want.
Some people are extremely bad at playing normal m1 killer. They only play nurse and don't know how to play other basic killers at all. AND THAT'S FINE. IT'S A GAME.
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This is not fair by any means.
If they gut this perk, you will only see nurse, Blight and Wesker.
The glaring issues of m1 killers will rise to the surface and we will have a serious issue in killer variety.
If that's your goal, keep it up.
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Very true.
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It's too strong on demo? Excuse me?
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Why?
I honestly think nothing should deactivate after the exits are powered. The end game is no place for pity kills or escapes, it is part of the game.
If your perks made it to the end, you should always be able to use them.
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Too strong for the amount of effort required. Just play him as basic attack killer with stbfl and then just shred the obsession whenever they come by. It's stupid and overshadows his power. When i lose against demo i want it to be because they used their power effectively not because they used save the best for last.
Anyways you already admitted you are biased about this anyways so it's pointless to try and convince you to change your mind about this topic.
This whole discussion is also pointless because developers already made up their mind.
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So....
Basic attack killer is too strong now? You confuse me.
The shred is supposed to give demo the edge in chase. If you get destroyed more by basic attack killers, than that's more of a you - problem. Sorry to say.
Where is the information on what they are gonna do to Stbfl? You seem to know more than the rest of us.
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This whole discussion is also pointless because developers already made up their mind.
Then suddenly every feedback is pointless. And if that is happening, then we have a problem.
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We're going back in time to stop popular DBD content creator no. 83 from saying that STBFL needs a nerf.
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Demo is good chaser. So no i disagree with you here.
Nemmy, Xeno and Wesker are also insane chasers but yet, they are abusing this perk.
Pig and Trapper needs help, that's true. But this help should not come by perk. They should buff their base-kits. This perk is maybe not problem on Pig and Trapper but it's definetely cheating on other m2 killers.
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We're going back in time
You have my attention.
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based
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TURN ON THE TIME MACHINE!!!
WE CAN PREVENT SOME PIG NERFS WHILE WE ARE AT IT!
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Finally... endgame Pig can return... if she was healthy idk what do you think
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No, it's the relevancy of the feedback that matters.
Nothing has changed with STBFL since 6.1.0 when they decreased base attack cooldown which indirectly buffed this perk pretty much.
There's already been enough time to collect feedback and so at this point there's nothing more to be said about the perk.
They already announced the perk will be changed so i think it's fair to assume they have already collected the necessary feedback and since this post is literally just a beg to not nerf it. It's not very useful they already decided what they want to do most likely.
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I didn't say basic attack killer was too strong.
Yes shred is supposed to help demogorgon in chase. That's why i don't like that STBFL allows you to just abandon that part of shred and just use shred at close range to just save stacks.
There isn't details about the STBFL update but i think it's safe to assume that it's going to be nerfed.
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The difference is 0.18 seconds of the killer moving at 2.7 m/s. Meaning it's only a difference of 0.486 m in what distance a survivor makes after a hit. So the time it takes for the killer to cover that extra ground is less than 1 second. But because you will already be in a loop, that 1 second is negligible.
You still get to the next loop and have to play around it. This is the effect STBFL had before 6.1.0 and it's the effect that STBFL has now.
I'm not against this nerf. It would make no difference whatsoever. But I don't like the idea of nerfing weaker killers in any way.
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Why would that be a problem? They waste a perk slot and then don't use their power when they should, which wastes a lot of time because M2 attacks can get hits much easier than M1s.
Are you going to tell me, that a killer nerfing themself is too oppressive?
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doesn't an m2 killer getting save value mean they basically become an m1 killer, and why is that an issue? since when m1 killers are an issue? i don't understand this argument please someone enlighten me.
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This 1 second was reason to nerf MfT tho? 1 second can make so much difference. Survivor can make it to pallet or vault.
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Now the decisive strike players are joining.
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MFT didn't make a 1 second difference. It was a lot more than that. It took the killer 20% longer to catch up and then still worked in loops. That was simply too much.
That 1 second after a hit is negligible. You make it to the next loop and that's it. You don't get to the loop after that and you don't just barely make that vault. You get to the next loop and now the second half of the chase starts. The effect of STBFL is to prevent a survivor from cherry picking their preferred structure. That happened pre 6.1.0 and that still happens now.
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My thoughts exactly.
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Is see it this way: Demos shred isn't good. I played him long enough to admit that. A ton of chasing powers are more viable. Stbfl supports the shred. Not the shred Stbfl. Stbfl is there when the shred can't give you the hit.
I agree with you, that demo-players that to only Stbfl and the shred to save stacks are mislead and play less optimally. But playing less optimally means that they play badly. Why would you have problems with someone playing 90% m1 killer?
A very big, very loud m1 killer.
I dont see the problem here.
Is Stbfl getting nerfed? Probably yes. Am I personally fine with it? Absolutely yes. But the direct chase potential of it should not he touched.
Stbfl is very problematic in camping situations. Therefore I suggest nerfing this aspect and this aspect only.
Anything else would hurt the overall health of the game. It's sad to admit this perk is truly THIS important.
It's NOT replaceable.
Last but not least: you have no information on future changes. All you can do is predict. Pls don't make panic with your doomsday predictions unless you have facts to back them up.
This leads to nothing.
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Mine as well.
On top, Demo is a pretty bad m1 killer. He's huge and loud. If anybody goes down that fast against that, I'm sorry but...
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Stbfl pre 6.1 and Stbfl post 6.1 is almost the same.
It's a difference in milliseconds that is not noticeable in normal gameplay. It is however noticeable in camping situations.
This is where the perk should be nerfed.
I would even suggest, that it either loses stacks for hitting any survivor that attempts to go for an unhook or downright deactivates around hooks. That's a strong but fair nerf without hurting the VERY IMPORTANT chasing potential of the perk.
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There is not enlightenment. If someone goes down against a very big, very loud m1 killer THAT FAST, I do think they have different problems than Stbfl.
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Not only camping. This perk is also strong tunnelling tool too.
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STBFL is a bad perk on these killers (aside from Trapper and Pig)
All 4 of these M2 killers are better off using their power as often as possible. Farming STBFL stacks is going to slow down your pressure and chase so much that its not worth the benefit. Simply using their power is stronger.
Using STBFL instead of another good perk on these killers makes them weaker. I would not call that "abusing".
Nerfing the perk is not going to affect skilled players of these killers but will harm actual M1 killers like Pig and Trapper.
The perk is specially bad on Nemesis (needs to get to tier 3 as soon as possible) and Wesker (Will down survivors much faster with their power. And needs the infection for the slowdown and extra lethality). How often do you even see them use this perk?
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Then the perk should be nerfed in that regard as well. Maybe lose two stacks for hitting basekit bt?
The chasing power however, should NOT BE NERFED.
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Sure
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I guarantee.
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And people wonder why they lose. 😅
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A lot of people in this thread are highlighting killers like Demo, Nemesis, and Xeno as being proof that STBFL is problematic. If you ask me, this goes to show something else entirely: A lot of the killers being mentioned here are so good with STBFL not just because they can easily M2 you to save stacks, but also because of how they shutdown loops—by zoning you to death. Just by existing near a loop/prop they can force you to dodge their M2 and immediately just cancel into an M1. Meaning they can just feed themselves free STBFL stacks, as opposed to needing to truly earn them like M1 killers do, on TOP of conserving them by committing to an M2 hit.
That’s not a STBFL problem. That’s a zoning killer problem. Been saying this since the grandfather of this atrocious method of power design (Demo) dropped in twenty-effing-nineteen. This kind of antiloop is extremely unhealthy; one of the things that has me standing by the fact that DBD has been on a decline for a long time now is BHVR’s constant insistence on cranking out zoner after zoner after zoner for the past four years.
Nerfing STBFL because of zoning killers is like when Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of Starstruck Nurse. Something fun gets ruined for the whole family because the killer roster’s golden children are immune to being reigned in.
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