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A disincentivise mechanic for hard tunnelling
The hard tunnelling has gotten so bad, at least in my soloQ games. To define it, I mean only going for 1 player at 5 gens remaining. It’s a strategy that works… especially against soloQ, it incentivises itself as a 3v1 greatly stacks the odds in the killers favour.
My suggestion would be simple, a BP penalty that removes all BP occurred while pursuing that singular survivor, dependant on a few things. If the first 3 hooks are the same person, if the gens completed are less than 3. Some could argue players could then 99 gens to punish the killer but that would take coordination that wouldn’t be common enough if I’m honest.
what would be some of your suggestions to disincentive hard tunneling?
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But there would be people who definitely don't care about BP anymore, so not sure that would work. The way to remove tunneling from game entirely would be the thing that affects the game's flow.
However, what I am concerned about this anti-tunneling stuff is that it can remove the variants of the game. The removal of variants would lead to simplification of the game, abd the game would be boring IMO. Considering that the reason why people complain about tunneling is because it might make game unfun, I think putting that kind of mechanic is very bad idea since the concept of removing tunneling can fade away.
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Tunneling was worse before the BT base kit, but I'm back because of the map reworks and adjustments made by the devs, nowadays there are less loops and many dead zones, no pallets, I think they should improve perks like DS ( which nowadays is almost useless) giving back the 5 seconds and giving some extra effect such as hiding the marks for a while or speeding up the surv
Another thing is to delay the alert when someone is saved from the hook, every time a surv is saved, the killer hears an alert and the hud updates, it could take about 5 seconds for the killer's hud to update, it doesn't make much sense for the killer have this alert since it has more antistealth features nowadays
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this wouldn’t remove tunnelling though, it would just punish hard tunnelling. The simplest way to avoid the bp removal would be to hook 1 other person in between hooks, or wait till the team completes enough gens to hook without the penalty.
the strategy would still be there but it wouldn’t be a free win anymore, it would come at a cost that you’re right some killers would not care.
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Oh I really like this suggestion as well!
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The only way to stop tunneling is actually changing how the Bloodpoints/EXP works
Like it was suggested here, hooking the same survivor back to back should not grant extra points.
Hooking different survivors should grant more points, like having a multiplier
Without going too deep, some scenarios examples for my idea:
Scenario 1: Killer hooks survivor 1, then 1 again, then 1 again, then 2, then 2 again, then 2 again, then 3, then 4. BP at the end: 2000. Entity displeased.
Scenario 2: Killer hooks survivor 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, then 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4. BP at the end: 50000. Entity pleased
Scenario 3: Exactly same as above, but each survivor is hooked only twice and they all escape. BP at the end: 40000. Entity still pleased
A win condition for DBD should be a fun match, not just kill everybody.
And of course, for survivors is the same thing. Just staying on gens will not grant a good amount of BP.
With all being said, people can still tunnel, but would be worth it?
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This would have very minimal effect I believe. People want to win. Bp gain is secondary. I don't think a killer that is trying to win is thinking about bp gain mid match. I know I'm not.
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So you want yet another restriction on killers, when the ridiculous number of pallets, windows, bodyblocking, bagging at the gate is worse than ever? You have like 40 pallets on a board and windows, thats your defense again tunneling.
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add pain res regression to base-kit for hooking survivors with more hook-states then survivors closer to death hook.
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If it was up to me to punish "hard tunneling" while not punished non tunneling killers whom work hard in chase for downs and hooks; I would simply remove the Endurance status effect perks and reworked the BT Basekit mechanic off hooks to be... no more bodyblocking/hit collision with the Survivor that recently just got off the hook.
For example as a scenario: You are Survivor A that gets caught and put on the hook; and you happen to be unhook soon afterwards, regarding if the killer is far away or very close. Usually, the killer will go after you for multiple reasons (they see you as the weak link and free kill, they see bodyblocking the rescuer and decide to wait out the endurance timer, have a grudge agaisnt you, etc.) And secure a free down and hook afterwards, especially if you are on death hook and make it a easy 3v1.
But, with the removal of endurance and now you literally have no Collison with the killer, especially when they tried to attack you; they realized soon enough it is completly pointless worthless to tunnel as you will not be able forced into a situation in which you end up leaving the game so soon, because of bad play or intentional exploiting your endurance status effect for extra speed and time, for you and your teammates.
Of course, the free no Collisions effect is not permanent, as if that unhooked survivor decided to fo any conspicuous actions such as fixing a Genator, getting healed, and even unhooking another survivor in front of the killer, or even if the killer hooks another survivor afterwards, especially once all the generator are done. By then, the no collision is gone until you get hook again.
But of course, it would also be a killer nerf too, since sometimes they need to tunnel to buy themselves time when they are losing gens and the four survivor are still alive and hammering gens. I would also like to add a killer Buff, to make hooking a unique different Survivor everytime will grant a basekit 15% gen regression to any gens they see, or even 25% to any completed generator they see, to give themselves a great reward for seeking different survivor and buying themselves time. Of course, to prevent the killer from exploiting this to only survivor A and B and back to A and repeat; the game could also provide a basekit BBQ to any unique survivors in the trial, so that Survivor A and B can have a chance to keep on playing without being exploit with possible tunneling for free regression. With this mechanic implement, all 4 survivors need to be at least hook once, before the regression can be "reset" and apply again when hooking four survivor again, and then one last time.
Any chance to improve the killer experience with less gen rushing potionial while encouraging them to seek different survivors without the need to tunnel in the first place, would be a step in the right direction.
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How are we still bringing up bp in regards to balance? Few care that much about bp.
Bro I have been at bp cap for basically a year. If I ever tunneled that wouldn't impact me. It definitely won't impact the 5k hour players who have everything but p100 on every character. I have 500 hundred+ of every blight add-on from 2 years ago and enough brown med-kits to run for forever on sheeva. The goofy prestige number means nothing to me as it only means time not skill.
There's no downside to implementing your idea but there are players like me who couldn't care less but they also hard tunnel every match.
Anyway. Basekit 5 second ds only after first hook with the caveat that UB doesn't work while this basekit feature is available. That's a good start. Hooks outside of end game could even be PH cages, that may help too.
Imo it's really weird to me how so many people hate tunneling but the majority love chase. I feel if survivors got a 3man out in exchange for dying every game they would be fine with it, I know I would. You can never remove tunneling but you can make the killer lose for it. I'll go 0 and 5 in league if it means I cause enough pressure for my team to stomp, the problem is when they don't use that pressure. That does tilt me. If I'm being tunneled for 5 min straight and there's anymore than 1 gen left I'd be tilted off that. That is a player problem though. DBD really suffers from it's player base, unfortunately.
I think a good portion of players want to not get tunneled and not do gens so they can mess around to an extent, that's all well in good but killer players don't want to feel they only win because survivors were messing around. I don't tunnel so I couldn't care less if there was a 10 second ds basekit. I just know how I thought when I was relatively new and know most killer players probably think in that same way even the thousands of hours players.
If I can help it I go don't go for people until two other people(idealy 3) have been hooked and they are fully healed (something unreasonable to ask from 98% of killer players). But sometimes a person I just hooked last will pressure a with a flashlight, not much of an option left for me after that. BUT when a survivor decides to use basekit bt against me even though I very rarely go back to hook unless I can't find people, they are getting tunneled, they just illegally used their anti-tunneling right against me and they can't expect me to be that gracious.
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just let 0k 1k killer gain 10%~30% blood point.
2k gain 75% 3K 90% 4K 100%.🤣
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I feel like I'm misunderstanding this. Are you saying that you think when killers hook a survivor that hadn't been hooked yet, they get the power to un-complete a gen and regress it back to 75% completion (take 25% progress off of it)?
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Yes... if a killer works hard in chasing and downing and hook a new survivor, especially when Survivors can technically speed run their objectives speeds efficiently if they split up and literally knock out 3 out of the 5 gens in 90 seconds (faster with toolboxes, perks, no map wide pressure).
What better reward incentive to not punished tunneling then allow the killer to literally damage a completed generator on the map and take back a generator for the survivor needing to complete it. Obviously, you can only do this 4 to maybe 8 times, if we want to be generous; but it can only be used once and it will also be up to the killer on whatever or not; they want to go find a complete generator to damage and take away quarter of repair and risk the Survivors to eventually come back to it and fix it back up again; or used the 15% on any non completed generator on the map.
The killer of course, it can only used it once; until they hook another survivor. It cannot be stack together and be used to single handle complete reset any generator progress. Plus, it can be used in the Endgame before the exit gates are open; by hooking a Survivor and knocking a generator or even more, if you down multiple Survivors and hook them at a time; would be the Survivors would be back to square one (expected they need to return to the complete Genators and fix it back up again.
If we also want to make it less problematic, why not add a "bonus objective" for survivors and give them the ability to repair the additional last two Generators, along with the five generator that needs to be completed. If the Survivors teams are smart enough, having all 7 Gens fixed up means the killer Cannot simple kick enough completed gens in time, to simply stop the Survivors from attempting to open the exits.
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Well, one thing's for sure, that would disincentive tunneling
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I think you are missing the points
5k hours players need to tunnel?
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No body needs to tunnel, if you are playing Causal. The only real reason tunneling is common, is because it is exactly the best way to win the game, as killer. There is a quite a few reasons people tunnel, but the most acceptable is that it makes it easier for them to win, regardless of the amount of map pressure and gens are done.
Survivor have couple of things to take advantage of, in a more experience and high level play; which the number advantage (4v1) and that they can split up and hammer down generator, while one of them is busy "distracting" and being chased by the killer for a extended period of time. But of course, there is always bound to be a "weak link" of the group and will eventually be down multiple times and be inevitable kill, just to shrink the number advantage and give the killer the time and pressure they need, just to ensure maximum kill victory.
If you are a casual player, whom enjoys the game and do not care about sweats and having fun; tunneling isn't necessary to win because you dont care about that kind of win. But many folks whom play killer whom resort to tunneling, doesn't do it, because they have a grudge agaisnt a certain player whom piss them off in game or they need to do archive challenges or adept Achievements; they do it just so they can ensure victory.
As far as I am aware of the state of the game as I am concerned; playing "toxic" like tunneling, camping, and even Genrushing and stunning with Flashlights and abusing strong loops/bad map designs; makes it easier for one side to win and make the other suffer with a embarrassing defeat. That is asymmetrical game in a Nutshell, not everyone wins or loses all the time.
Of course, I want tunneling to be deincentives while making it much more fair for killers that play Causal and not be overwhelmed how strong survivors can be agaisnt them.
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Balance the game better around going for hooks then punish killers for tunneling. Give the killers an incentive maybe to play for hooks. Try to make it so survivors also cant weaponize anti tunnel perks.
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I stopped caring about bp too much at 200 hours, you missed my many points.
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Then its too bad
Like I said in my original post
"With all being said, people can still tunnel, but would be worth it?"
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If it's regarding bp then yeah! Bp is worth nothing.
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It is already disincentivized for most of the roster, but killers like clown who have to slow down constantly for using their power well are forced into that playstyle. Maybe approach it from a different perspective, why is it happening? Let's not disincentivize it, because they already have done this to face camping and that made the game even worse. That healing change that didn't go through might be a reason, why go pressure anything when you literally cannot pressure anything? Maybe we should throw killers a bone in chase so they can keep up with the 12 hook idea? But tbh, like Chucky everyone wanted him nerfed and he got nerfed, now all he's doing is obsessing over one survivor because theirs no other way, but before that he was able to have constant pressure.
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I've noticed, when a killer starts to tunnel you I believe they think you're the weakest link & another easy hook. When a killer chases me I use everything possible that match to survive. Make the killer spend 5-10 minutes chasing you and I can "almost" guarantee you won't be tunneld
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The way they game plays out you can't make tunneling completely impossible unless they give you complete godmode against the killer. There are enough perks/tools to make hard camping/tunneling punishable with a 3-4 person escape pretty consistently
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give all players a combined of 12 hook states instead of 3 each, and you solve tunneling :)
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In a way you do but instead of frustration for one player it's frustration for everyone. In league you can hard carry if you do well enough on your own, but if hook states were shared in dbd you the killer would just hard tunnel the two weakest survivors until win without ever chasing you.
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Bro I'm already not running gen regression and no add-ons, cut me a break here.
For real though, any human killer player running an A tier killer, maybe even a B tier killer or higher would just run through most teams.
Most survivors players are just not cut out for that. Even a 5% regression would be too much imo. With the way I play I would get full value out of this mechanic every game.
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sure because your opponent is playing worse then you in the chase. If your winning all the isolated chases in short amount of time, Should you really be losing gens? that currently how it is vs A-tier and S-tier survivor teams. You'll finish chases as fast as possible but they'll finish the gens while your opponent does bare minimum looping.
All the regression would do is reward the killer for choosing to spread hooks instead of inherently punishing the killer for doing extra chases. the killer would still likely go negative in time for extra chases but they'd be less negative on time meaning there is more viability in winning when not tunneling.
In a way you do but instead of frustration for one player it's frustration for everyone. In league you can hard carry if you do well enough on your own, but if hook states were shared in dbd you the killer would just hard tunnel the two weakest survivors until win without ever chasing you.
the killer still needs to down you that single time. You just wouldn't the extra second chances. The thing is, If a killer is perfectly tunnelling, you won't get those extra chances anyway because you'll get 1 hooked. If a killer chases survivor A -> Survivor B and repeats this process 3 times, Survivor C or survivor D will get 1 hooked because what can you realistically do vs a killer in a 2vs1 when killer hooks one of you. The killer can camp and they're guaranteed a 3k in like 99% of cases.
the 9 hook suggestion is just giving killer the worst possible outcome every single time on tunneling while 6 hook suggestion is removing the 3vs1 "early" benefits of tunneling.
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