Would 5sec Decisive Strike really help with tunneling?

At worst if the perk fires you get 11s worth of killer time. Pickup 2s, stun 3s, hit and cooldown 3s, pickup 2s, hook 1s because you are basically under it. If 11s worth of time in a 4v1 game in a single perk slot for all standing still has no impact then idk what to tell you. On top of the fact you could use the 10s speed boost and endurance to get into a good spot that could stretch that out a lot longer against most killers if you were skilled enough and or use dh to get another health state after you get the free chase reset which is less situational as a perk but extremely synergistic.

This may be abit off topic but: How often does everyone see survivors actually run anti-tunnel perks? Maybe thats a reason no one is dissuaded from tunneling?

We keep seeing people think this 5 second stun is the end all solution. It defiantly would help but no where near as much as people are saying.

This made me laugh more than it should have. Your name and pfp just... chef's kiss.

If you really want to make killers think twice about tunneling then make DS work multiple times like OTR does. Completely avoidable and only gets any value if the killer tunnels.

The real reason killers don't respect DS anymore is because nobody takes it because they think it is bad. Real top tier survivors know that DS is still one of the best perks in the game.

Not really.

There is nothing that rewards more than getting someone out. You can be at one Gen remaining, having wasted the whole match tunneling one player and still be in a good spot. Sad but true. Because as soon as it's a 3v1, the survivors have to NOT go down. Otherwise it's gonna be a spiral of recovery that is very hard to get out of.

Even eating a 7 second ds will not help to fix this. An alternative (maybe give slowdown for hooking each survivor once / twice before sacrificing them) AND punishing tunneling via something (maybe not a licensed perk people have to pay for) would help way more if you ask me.

That wasn't their point. Half of the strength of DS was having to assume everyone is running it, which in turn makes it not actually necessary to run in order to still get value. They were saying if there was some type of indication it was in play, that would remove that bonus, while still allowing it to have a longer stun and do its job to counter tunneling.

Is that why so many hex perks give indications when they are in play? how about exposed? If there was no indicators they would similarly have invisible power, but they have indicators for good reason. Game changing effects should have at least some type of decision other than "just assume its always in play bro."

Also your PR/DMS comparison is pretty weak, considering it takes a fraction of a second to let go of a gen when you see the person being hooked, letting you literally avoid it on reaction. If you get hit by it, you'll see it is in play and be able to use that in your decision making for the rest of the game as well. Getting hit by 1 DS doesn't give any weight to whether the other 3 players have it.

Not much comment on eruption since I haven't seen it once since its nerf.

Which is why people used to always bring UB with it, and could continue to do so.

It can't be weaponised because the killer just has to M1 once and not pick up to make the survivors lose more time than the killer does.

"haha this is what I took from what you said now you look bad"

If someone is hooked after being unhooked within 60s without being fully healed or doing a conspicuous action they get a basekit 3s stun ds until they do a conspicuous action upon being unhooked or fully healed. Disabled in endgame

or just buff ds to 4 seconds because m1 killers are people too and 5s ds was meant for enduring

It's still weaponizing the perk. Survivors are purposely weaponizing the perk, and that needs to be fixed. The actual anti-tunnel part can stay. And super honestly, if people really truly want to use DS as an anti-tunnel perk, then they shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed.

The fact that survivors were purposely bobdyblocking, purposely baiting the killer, and purposely trying to get the killer to eat a DS, means the survivors were weaponizing the perk. And why would you care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed? You obviously would never try to use DS offensively, right? Because if you don't, then you shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed, because it wouldn't affect you at all, right?

Dead on. Locker suggestion is good.

Protection hits should disable it as well, but unfortunately that still doesn't stop taking a hit for full health survivors... you can't make it when hit within range of any other survivors as hitting you while you're trying to heal is also tunneling.

Still haven't thought of a means of preventing weaponisation of this kind. DS isn't really worth running in its current form, especially vs Nurse or Blight... but it's s a tough perk to buff for this reason alone...

Perhaps something like when the killer has been in chase of another survivor for 10s, if tou are hit within 16m of that survivor, Decisive Strike deactivates?

It's attempting to weaponise the perk, which is a slightly different thing.

With the Conspicuous Actions nerf, any survivor who tries to weaponise DS is throwing. Speaking from the killer perspective, the statement "If DS gets a 5 second stun again, survivors will try to weaponise it" doesn't scare me off, since you're just telling me that my games are going to be easier due to more survivors throwing the match to try (and fail) to get value from weaponised DS.

The only change I'd personally make is making any save a Conspicuous Action, since you're not being tunnelled if someone else has been downed and picked up. Other than that, the current implementation is perfectly suited to combat weaponising the perk, so the stun duration can be safely buffed without worry about it becoming a problem.

To touch on the idea that "if you want to use it as an anti-tunnel perk you shouldn't care if it gets nerfed for weaponising", I think that's a fair statement that simply misses something: False positives. Take bodyblocking- there's no way of guaranteeing you won't end up having your DS deactivated just because you're hit close to your teammate post-unhook, which is pretty common when you're being tunnelled. Considering that, and the fact that DS is incredibly hard to weaponise without throwing (basically impossible if the killer doesn't fall for the bait), I think it's fair to object to the idea that weaponising the perk needs to be "fixed".

There were many people that were still weaponizing the perk after the conspicious action nerf, so there were a bunch of people that still thought it was a good idea.

And, we all need to remember that buckle up + FTP is now in the game, which means there will be SWFs that absolutely would weaponize DS if it was brought back to 5 seconds, just so they can combo it in as an actual health state. SWFs with voice comms was always where weaponized DS was the most obnoxious.

Aggressive body blocking isn't always avoidable. Sometimes the survivor is blocking a narrow path. And "just hit the DS survivor, and leave them slugged on the ground" is unacceptable, because that still counts as being weaponized.

If you honestly think weaponizing the perk is a bad idea, then you should be fine if that part gets nerfed some more, because it obviously wouldn't affect you, right?

Unfortunately @Coffeecrashing is correct, the main reason Decisive Strike isn't used much now is because the 2 seconds of escape it actually buys you is ineffective against a good Nurse or Blight. If the stun is jacked up however we still hit the problem of it being weaponised.

The protection hit solution would be nice, but we hit the problem you describe. I was working on this to post in another thread, but I realised you can still body block for a full HP survivor with Decisive Strike, so that would be an issue...and I can't think of a way of preventing it. The one saving grace is at least it would be pretty obvious, however of course SWFs would still use it... and we do have the issue that Killers can get faked out by someone pretending to have DS. In any case this is what I have thus far.

Decisive Strike

Using whatever is at hand, you stab your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.

If the exit gates are not yet powered, after being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike activates after 5 seconds. For the next 40/50/60 seconds:

• When being grabbed or picked up by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape their grasp, stunning them for 3.5 seconds.
• The killers power is disabled for 7 seconds.
• Successfuly stunning the Killer will deactivate Decisive Strike and result in you becoming the Obsession.

While Decisive Strike is active, it is deactivated if:

• The survivor performs any Conspicuous Actions.
• The survivor takes a Protection Hit.
• The Exit Gates are powered.

After successfully stunning the Killer with Decisive Strike, it is disabled for the rest of the trial.

The 5 seconds timer is to ensure protection hits off hook can't disable it... I was really trying to think about if you could beat the 5s timer. Even if you get hit immediately off hook with STBFL, rushed and downed again with Nurse, Blight, Spirit or Wesker, could they pick you up to beat the 5s timer? Wesker is possible, because he can immediately hit you off hook then Virulent Bound to instant grab you... but I don't think anyone else can without a grab...

It would certainly help. Right now the 3 seconds is a joke. Even against basic M1 killers.

IF the killer takes the bait, it does work out for the survivors. But any competent killer will only fall for it once and never again. And from that point onwards, trying to 'weaponise' DS is just throwing. So some people will try to take that gamble, and a lot of them will get themselves and the other survivors killed over it.

We've had 5 second DS for over a year, in which it was not even remotely a problem. For some reason, people are now needling a perk that's been proven to be healthy for gameplay to cramp it and restrain it as much as possible. Introducing new fail states to try and save the one killer that just slams that spacebar the moment they get a down without any kind of thought.

Survivors perks are allowed to do a thing. They don't all have to be No Mithers and Autodidacts.

I don't even agree with the locker disable. Why would it disable on entering the locker? The only way that that is a problem is if the killer is tunnelling, so why would it disable under that circumstance?

The reason it disables at end game is the killer cannot possibly stop you from escaping once the gates are open.

If he picks you up, you stun them and run out of gate, if they don't pick you up, you crawl out anyway.

It puts the killer in a lose/lose situation. Even though they successfully caught you after you were unhooked and running to the exit, they can't possibly win, not because you outplayed them, but because you equipped this perk.

It's things like this that make Decisive Strike a pain... It's a cool perk idea, I want it to be good, but you get all these edge cases where it becomes a problem...