Remove the endurance effect for buckle up target.

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Atom7k
Atom7k Member Posts: 224
edited January 11 in Feedback and Suggestions

Let's be real almost only filthy bully squads use the combo of 'For the people' and 'Buckle Up'.

So if a solo q player uses it fine. He risked something to safe his teammate. So gaining endurance is okay. The one who was healed by 'For the people' shouldn't get an extra health state just because somebody else picked him up. This would force bully squads to at least waste another slot on soul guard.

I also demand that we add a penalty system for bully squads as mentionend in my post here:


I am so tired of toxic people ruining games

Comments

  • Atom7k
    Atom7k Member Posts: 224
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    Yes sry sometimes I tend to translate freely but forget then, that there is a difference in the transaltion sometimes. Edited the post

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,032
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    Made for this has effect to gain endurance because the condition to use the perk is to be in deep wound. Without effect, you wouldn't be able to trigger the perk. We're gonna live forever gives 100% healing bonus for healing survivors on the down. This perk has token system because the perk used to originally give you blood points. They had to replace the token system with something else to not make it flat out useless. these two perk have different design goals. They're different perks. They're not being used because they're not good enough.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,425
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    Learn something new off you every time man. I love DBD history, so cheers for that little gem dude 😅

    Still the point remains, even if these perks were buffed/meta, we essentially have Buckle Up that does the same job as these 2 perks combined. Even if FTP wasn't an option (where most people agree Buckle Up isn't OP on its own), it's still not good to have 1 perk doing the job of 2 perks, without appropriate trade offs.

    We have crossovers like this for other perks, like Botany Knowledge vs. Desperate Measures, but the 2 play differently and you can argue either way which one is better. The Exhaustion perks are similar, SB is probably the best, but you can also put reasonable arguements for Lithe, BL, Dead Hard.


    Now WGLF probably doesn't need it's condition, and that would probably be a fine perk. Not OP, as it does nothing if the Killer doesn't slug, and when used with FTP it only affects the target, so we don't get this nasty combo.

    MFT is probably in an OK place too, because the 3% as we know can be devastating in the fight hands, and can be supplemented by other perks to attain. The pick up is hard to pull off but it can be pretty clutch when you manage it


    However if these effects are/bevone well balanced, they are still pointless, because FTP + Buckle Up exists and just beats them hands down...

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,032
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    you keep insisting that they're same perks. it is like saying undying is same perk as thrill of the hunt for defending totems but hex:undying is better in every way.

    We're gonna live forever is appeal is suppose to be 100% healing speed. the endurence aspect was added to the perk because it used to be equivalent effect of BBQ where it increased your bloodpoint gains by 25/50/75/100%. The BP bonus was removed so they added tag in effect to try make perk more appealing but it was worthless since killer could hit the person with we're gonna live forever. Fun fact, original version of the perk was 200% BP.

    MFT has endurance condition to activate the perk. The main appeal of MFT is suppose to be that you gain 3% haste when your deep wound. once upon time, it was indirect exhaustion type perk that gave consistent haste bonus. Now, it is some situational effect that nobody runs.

    these two perk are not specialized in anti-slug. their anti-slug nature is side ability. Buckle up on other hand is entirely specialized in anti-slug.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,425
    edited January 12
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    Yes, I understand the history of their design, but I disagree with your implication that the endurance effects and anti-slug on MFT and WGLF are side effects/tacked on, not primarily what you use the perks for. We all know how impactful endurance is; you do, if you have any sense and you can, play for it.

    • WGLF is a pretty cut and dry anti-slug perk, it literally heals downed survivors faster, with an additional effect to protect that allybif you manage to get them up.
    • MFT is the special case, as you can also get your speed via other means, but even with its original design, the endurance when healing an ally is still quite clearly anti slug.... you can even get it again by healing the slugged player to full. Your typical scenario is gonna be taking a hit on route to a slugged ally on 95%, finishing off the 0.8s to heal them, and getting endurance for when the killer follows you.

    Considering WGLF, MFT and old Buckle Up, all 3 of them offer some form of anti-slug, each with different effects. How good they are is free to debate, but all 3 offered 3 different options.

    None of them were popular/chosen for their anti-slug qualities for the same reason Tenacity and even Unbreakable isn't popular. Even if the effect is strong.... the perk does nothing if the killer doesn't Slug. This is the only scenario any of them can be used. Realistically you're not very likely to pick up a survivor unless the killer goes on a long slug spree, and the survivor makes a lot of recovery before you try, even with WGLF.

    So the scenario where all 3 perks get triggered: -

    • The killer has to slug for long enough to make it there/the survivor to recover.
    • The survivor has to be complete healing before/as the killer comes back, and be ready to take the hit.

    This is where old Buckle Up drops off. The need to completely heal so you can stand up and run away before the killer cones back, to not even get more speed than the killer if they do... means the perk achieves basically nothing even if you do pull it off more often than not. So now we give it the very strong effect to grant endurance to both survivors. The perk is still not popular, because its trigger condition still requires the killer to slug.

    In isolation, this is a problem, because we have 3 perks that trigger off the same scenario, with Buckle Up no longer synergising with the other 2, as it offers the same endurance effect of both MFT and WGLF, and as stated above is an effect that is too hard to earn typically, despite the effect being strong.


    You see where this going I'm sure. Versatile perks that work in a lot of scenarios will always be better than perks that require a specific thing to happen. The only reason Buckle Up is relevant now is because when combined with FTP, it becomes versatile, and can be used not only when slugged, but even on a regular down, and be used for anti-tunnel, and even just to punish killers in general.

    The argument is that two players getting endurance is too strong an effect to have in a versatile scenario. In our basic slugged scenario, it is fine... but it removes synergies with the similar perks. However with FTP it's now too versatile.

    You traditionally could consider FTP with WGLF as an option to be really anti-tunnel, with WGLF giving a little anti-slug viability too. You might consider Dead Hard to combo with it... you may even take MFT to give you even more help escaping after doing it. With my revised Buckle Up you could consider it in place of WGLF or MFT, both options are worth thinking about.

    However with modern Buckle Up there is absolutely no point in any of that, as it's just hands down better at doing the same job as all of those perks for only 1 perk slots... and then it offers even more on top.

    FTP + Buckle Up is your anti-slug, anti-tunnel, chase extender, gate escape, Swiss army knife combo all in one. It basically makes every other anti-slug perk even more situational than they already are... I.e. can still be used while wounded.


    My overarching point is, Buckle Up without FTP offers a very situational bonus, that doesn't synergise with the perks that trigger in the same situation. With FTP, it's a super combo that trumps most other options in the game.

    My goal would be to tone down the BUFTP combo, and allow synergies with MFT and WGLF.

    Post edited by UndeddJester on
  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,032
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    modern Buckle Up there is absolutely no point in any of that, as it's just hands down better at doing the same job as all of those perks for only 1 perk slots... and then it offers even more on top.

    your missing entire point of my post. it is not doing hand down better at the same job because three perks are fundamentally different. Buckle up is doing its job well at what it was designed to do. protect recently picked-up survivors. Previously, it was doing its job poorly because 10% haste meant nothing if killer immediately hits you off the floor. MFT primary functionality is meant to be haste and We're gonna live forever's job is suppose give you 100% healing speed. Those perks are not getting overshadowed. They just suck in principal and need buffs.

    For example:

    What would make considering current MFT?

    What if endurance triggered when I unhook someone onto myself? Now I am getting endurance effect on both unhooking and slugging where the perk might have some consistency if I go for risky saves?

    The perk would read something like following:

    Made for this:

    You were born to survive, and raised to adapt. Whenever you are in the injured state, Made for This activates and you benefit from the following effects:

    Gain the Endurance status effect for 8/9/10 seconds after completing a Healing action on another Survivor or unhooking a survivor.

    Gain a 1/2/3% haste status effect while running and suffering from the deep status effect.

    What would make a player consider using current We're gonna live forever?

    What if the perk gave you a 100% healing speed for 90 seconds whenever you heal a survivor off the ground with a token system to limit how many times it can be trigger per match. An example of a reliable token system would be whenever a generator is complete. The perk would read something like following.

    We're Gonna Live Forever:

    Your few friends deserve the best protection.

    When a generator is completed by the survivor team, this perk gains a token up to 5 tokens.

    When performing a healing action on a survivor in the dying state, Consume 1 token to grant 100% altruistic speed for 45/60/90 seconds.

    ---

    Now there is incentive to go to dying state survivors to heal them quickly because you will trigger a rewarding healing bonus and bring your teammates quickly back to health. The current version is crap version of autodidact.

  • Dionysusdog
    Dionysusdog Member Posts: 130
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    I offer a better fix. Remove endurance for the one using buckle up. They can save their downed friend but it should be a sacrifice.

  • Atom7k
    Atom7k Member Posts: 224
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    Im fine with eiter verision, someone has to go down. A perk combo which guarantees 2 extra health states is wild

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,538
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    Buckle up and for the people is not an issue. Why do people always have to have something to complain about. MFT was never an issue either.

    Im 💯 a killer main as a P100 onyro. Come on people. Let the survivors have something.

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,060
    edited January 18
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    There is no counterplay for FTP + Buckle up which invalidates the down that the Killer got.The combo is not situational, it can be used at the beginning, middle and end of the match.

    Even the perk that helped to soften the impact of this combo STBFL is getting nerfed in a few weeks.

    If no counterplay perk combos are fine for one side, then the same argument could be made for the other side.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,538
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  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,538
    edited January 18
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    🤷🏼‍♂️ I don’t care if you don’t believe me. I’m just speaking facts. That’s how you know when the truth slaps perfectly when all someone can say is “ohhhh yeah, killer main, doubt it…”


    Cause that’s not overused it anything in this community. 🤣

  • MikhailVictor
    MikhailVictor Member Posts: 371
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    Buckle up is a badly designed crossover of mft and wglf. It should have some other effect, not endurance

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 171
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    The perk is fine, you just have to deal with it. At least it keeps survivors off of gens, rather have that than 5 second ds any day of the week.