Tunnel Tunnel Tunnel Tunnel Tunnel
I've literally had 30 rounds in a row where the killer does nothing but tunnel each person right off the hook. This game is broken. Devs don't seem to care because the minor changes they've made have not removed tunneling from the game. It's literally unplayable garbage at this point. This feature is not fun, does not add challenge, and does not make new or existing players want to continue playing. The purpose of a game is fun, literally no survivor ever has said that tunneling adds fun - that's 80% of the players in each round (4 survivors 1 killer) and yet it's ignored.
It's so easy to solve. Make DS automatic and unlimited until the killer gets a certain distance away from the survivor, or until the survivor does an action to benefit the team ie generator, heal teammate etc. And it disables when only 2 survivors are left. And if a killer persists in tunneling they get stunned an increasing amount. SEE? Very simple to fix. It didn't take an entire dev team to come up with a solution that would make the game considerably more fun for survivors and would make the killer use skill to win, which is the whole point right? Right?
Comments
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I know, I have not played in a while and loaded the game up today and first 3 games tunnel I came right off the game. I use to always play this game
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I think some people on this forum downplay or excuse this playstyle but it is very much common. It really hurts the casual player base especially when killers purposefully look at profiles to find the weakest link and target them.
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DS + OTR + Adrenaline + biggest factor, be in a SWF or hope your Solo Q teammates can do gens quick enough and hope enough pallets left.
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I don't see alot of tunnelling in my games fortunately, and so when I do see it it doesn't usually bother me. I'm at the point where I feel there probably shouldn't be anymore drastic basekit changes, but I also see enough tunnelling complaints to know it's not good for the health and longevity of the game.
IMO they should firstly be looking at more decent anti-tunnelling perks. That way tunnelling still remains an option, but comes at a risk. I like the conspicuous action condition they've been applying, which ensures these perks are only useful in cases of tunnelling, and using outside of tunnelling comes at the cost of wasting valuable gen time (ie not worth it). I think that would be a good approach. Sorry your games haven't been going well
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or...
This might be very repetitive but...
Last longer in a chase?
Like you got all these anti-tunnel perks and whatnot, and if you're still going down during that time, it's a You issue, a Skill issue if that..
Improve your looping and don't be two tapped =D, js
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How about trying to play killer and see how difficult it is to win, especially against coordinated teams, without tunneling at all? Eliminating tunneling from the game would make it nearly impossible for killer to win high levels for all but the S-tier killers. If you disagree, I would love to see your gameplay videos to show us how it's done.
Against new players and bad-to-moderately good solo queue, I 100% agree you can win without tunneling. But once you get to a level where you're consistently facing coordinated SWF and/or pro loopers who know how to string together every broken loop in the game, there are many times where you have to tunnel if you want to have a chance to get at least one kill. The problem is that you don't know which teams you have to tryhard against because the devs refuse to show MMR score or SWF status in the lobbies, so you
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I did, with Myers, Plaything is the only slowdown, without tunneling through 50 matches challenge. With 72% kill rate.
The problems with most killer is they want 100% kill no less. Using strong killer/addon, stacking slowdown and tunneling can bring a newbie to high MMR. MMR is not a measure of skill, its a measure of who tries harder. There is nothing to brag about "wait until you play at high MMR".
As Peanits said, no matter how you play, you should win half the time. I play Myers without slowdown should win half the time (which I didnt), you play Blight with 4 slowdown should win half the time.
Post edited by C3Tooth on5 -
the forums been on repeat for years! i swear.
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I saw some said a chase should last 45sec. If you're able to run a killer to the point they cant 2 taps you through 5min. You're out skilled than the killer. You should win.
I mean, why killers want a chase to be balanced at 45sec while play like survivors have to chase for 5min to have a chance to escape (for the chased survivor)
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It usually depends on what killer it is,
Against S tiers: 30 seconds min
A tiers: maybe 30 to 1 minute,
Anything lower than that and it should be 100% one minute + chases, so that's the issue..
ima still stand on my point =D
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Or... get this the coding for the game is the thing that's holding them back
Cause of coding we are seeing a lot of repeats... but with different conditions
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Adding DS is only making it worse.
Better make not tunneling more rewarding than tunneling. Then we would not need any "anti tunnel mechanic" in the first place.
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With this "simple fix," an unhooked survivor will never have a reason to not use their off-hook infinite automatic DS to bodyblock for their teammates. Everyone would do it.
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i wish i got tunnelled more instead of having to hold m1 on gens
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Sadly this will not work. You would need to implement something which is so stupid strong that it would be highly imbalanced. Because removing someone as early as possible is the best and easiest way for the Killer to win. A 3v1 with anything more than 1 Gen left is a win for the Killer. At this point, they can just farm points, go for Hooks and do whatever, they won.
Even during Eruption-Meta Killers were tunneling and there you actually had to try to lose a game as Killer if you ran Eruption/CoB/Overcharge.
Tunneling is just too beneficial and giving rewards for not tunneling will not work out, unless it is way too strong.
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"The purpose of the game is to have fun" is code word for "I only have fun when I teabag the killer at the exit gates"
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Maybe MMR is the root of the evil. Because with "fairer" matches you always need to do your best unless you want to get BMed. While when MMR was not a thing, tunneling (also often with a Mori) was still there but it didn't happen as often, because it was not necessary to do to stay at rank 1.
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If the game detects you're being tunneled you should get 15% haste, adrenaline if the last gen pops AND unlimited 7 sec auto ds for 3 mins. That'll keep those filthy tunnellers off you. Behavior, make it happen!!
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Stop unhooking in front of the killer
Stop running Distortion
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It needs both incentives to spread hooks and penalties for hard tunneling.
We had this before and though it wasn't perfect, it was a lot better than this. DS often did nothing when you weren't tunneling, so you could ignore up to 4 perks per game as long as you spread hooks. But when you did tunnel, it could hold you back significantly.
The thing with the Eruption meta is way overexaggerated. Come on. That was 6.1.0 and during that time we had survivos hook suiciding in almost every 2nd game. Yet the kill rates still were about 60% (61.2% iirc). The Eruption meta was stupid, no argument there, but saying you had to try to lose implies that killers were incredibly overpowered during that time. Which would not have resulted in a 60% kill rate but something way higher.
You can't just punish a killer for everything they do for the sole reason that it is unpleasant to play against. At that point, killers cannot adapt their play styles anymore. Which leaves them with pretty much no options when survivors show counterplay for normal chasing. "Just chasing" is not effective. You take forever to get into a chase when a survivor starts running early on, chases take forever to end when you let yourself get baited towards strong set ups and you will have to deal with way too many resources, if you play around the entire map. This is why you often see popular content creators run killers for multiple gens. Because they don't adapt.
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"It needs both incentives to spread hooks and penalties for hard tunneling."
Back in the day we had incentives for spreading Hooks. E.g. BBQ. But it did not work, because Killers can get the incentive even when they tunneled.
Incentives dont work. At all. You can think about incentives when the penalties work, but given BHVRs track record, their penalties are too lenient to do anything.
"The Eruption meta was stupid, no argument there, but saying you had to try to lose implies that killers were incredibly overpowered during that time."
Oh come on. It was super-easy to play with this Build. You got so much Slowdown, it was not funny anymore.
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It sucks yeah, but go play Killer in mid-high MMR and you'll understand very quickly why people feel the need to tunnel.
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You have to thank all those killers who dodged the lobby beforehand if you get unfair matches. One way or another.
I see this often but from the survivor point of view. I get dodged a lot because of either high playtime, playing a P100 or both. In the end I either end up against a try hard, or someone who either doesn't or can't check my profile or doesn't care at all. And often those refills are a lot less experienced than I am. Resulting in a match were the killer gets stomped and I feel bad.
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10 = 3 + 7
5 = 3 + 2
I mean, a 10 team beat a 7 killer equally hard as a team 5 beat a 2 killer. Thing is you dont know if you're a 2 or a 7.
Is it that bad? I get beaten from time to time, but its because I played mostly Trapper exclusively and now I main Myers. If you lose most of the time, you should get easy survivors and gain more win rate.
I was telling that 5min chase survivor should not be a standard chase, yes. I just dont understand why killers keep telling "but your teammates could do Gen and escape so you win". No I dont see me dying 10 matches in a row while 2-3 teammates escape as a win.
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I've seen it nearly every match. Even when I try to help take chase or get in the way the killer ignores me for the other person and continues to tunnel them out.
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You mean to tell me all those second chance perks Survivors have isn't doing anything?? I know it's inconceivable to understand, so play killer and get back to me about WHY they're tunneling from 5 gens. If not, party up with friends and see what yall can do. SWF is broken yet the devs continue to cater to survivors regardless. Either adapt to the mindset play to win, expect to lose or play a different game.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
Hate to break it to you but even if your going against a 4 man swf, you should still be able to win fine.
Most swf don't play comp and use clock callouts.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
The blocking of vault points is to fix infinites, likewise with the removal of specific vaults. That's not catering, that's not a buff, that's not a nerf, that's simply fixing something that is broken.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Infinite is broken but map reworks because the map is good for looping is not. As Killer mains often say to Survivor mains "you have perks for it". It's catering to Killers and a nerf to Survivors. Then you can look at perks and see both got nerfed but Survivor perks got the hammer by comparison. The devs do not favor Survivor over Killer.
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Sometimes Killers get something, sometimes Survivors do; there's an ebb and flow to it. You're only interested in remembering the things that you can twist to push a them and us narrative.
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My issue is alternatives got mostly nerfed... Like what do you expect killers to do?
If you think they are tunneling a lot now, wait for next patch when they can't even defend gens properly...
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I mean incentives like: Ignore up to 4 perks when you don't tunnel. Or maybe a friendly reminder that you could also go for someone else (maybe show the killer the location of 1 survivor with the least hook stages after they get a hook). Or bring back BBQ stacks with the extra that you cannot get any more stacks, once someone is dead and it only activates at at least 2 stacks.
I said it needs both. Not just one or the other. Punish a killer for everything they do and they will double down on playing nasty (give survivors a 60 seconds DS stun and even I will start hardcore tunneling every single game and check profiles for the easiest target). Give them incentives alone and they will not stop unless the incentive is even stronger than having someone dead early on, which would probably end up replacing one issue with another.
It was easy to play with this build, agreed. Because you could try and hold a game hostage. However, that was frowned upon even among the most hardcore killer mains. That will also be no longer possible once the next update goes live. On top of that, every regression perk, that didn't need the killer to progress isn't good anymore. CoB and OC are incredibly bad. This again, was also around the time when survivors would kill themselves on first hook for any reason they could think of. Yet the kill rates didn't exceed 60%.
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Just got tunneled in a "reworked" coldwind map where the killer just hooked me on purpose in a clutter deathzone to easily tunnel me out. Was so much fun =)
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Killer is difficult? It has never been easier to win games, even if you play fair. If you rely on slowdown and "killer strategies" you are most like to win every damn game with no skill unless you get a top notched SWF on comms. Killers (that are not even that much skilled) have winstreaks that are completely ridiculous. If theyre high skilled they get even more insane. Thats an issue that cant be ignored and just shows how bad the state of the gameplay is.
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I am not too bothered when I get tunnelled, 'cause I only play with mySWF friends, and we usually do well. TBH, none-meta killers won't have much of a chance if they don't tunnel.
Same goes for when I play killer. My MMR is high enough to expect/show no mercy,.. unless the surv are being obvious about being casual.
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Exactly. The problem isn't tunneling. It's genrushing. If people didn't genrush at insane levels then killers wouldn't feel the need to tunnel. For example I had an oni match yesterday where in the first minute and a half or so, I had gotten a down, but 3 gens popped. People don't get how frustrating that is. Sometimes taking someone out of the game is just good strategy.
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taking a hit for a teammate is an action that helps the team, which would deactivate ds. Simple.
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Mindset does not stop me from getting tunneled, and I've played over 1000 hours as killer and haven't felt the need to tunnel. As far as second chance perks go what about the killer perks - blocked windows and pallets, anti loop abilities like alien/dr etc...look at the whole picture. There's still no need for tunneling to be in the game. Also the game shouldn't be written for the top 1% of players, it should be good for the 99% of non competitive ones. If they want competitive matches and something doesn't work as well, 1)too bad 2)make rules during competition that fix it.
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So another solution is have every hook disappear or move like Pinheads traps do. I also hate tunnellng it makes the game not fun. I have played killer so I get it but even so as a casual player it's not fun anymore. I don't play enough to be great or good at looping but I'm not going to get better when you get hooked then tunneled.
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I've played for a long time, even took a break for a bit and came back. Red Rank Killer main. Usually run Spirit, Nurse, Doc but have branched off to death slinger and singularity. I've hit red rank and haven't had to tunnel even at higher MMR. Just have to spread the pressure and keep on it. Yeah I may not get a 4k everytime, those matches happen. Even if I accidentally tunnel someone while chasing down with spirit or nurse, I'll let them wiggle off. If I feel I'd end the match to fast I'll usually let the last two farm and get out. But if singularity then no one escapes period (Larry hates humans). If you get a swf or a 50% one with dual wiggle off builds then change tactics. I'll usually slug one and fake pick up to draw their partner out and down them. Hook them both and go off for other survivors. Rinse and repeat when chasing those two.
As far as my higher MMR survivor matches I may get some tunnelers but that's usually if I've looped them for multiple gens. I don't T-Bag or be toxic aside the usual blinds on vaults or pallet breaks. They'll usually proximity camp me till I'm dead or just tunnel me out. 90% of my survivor matches are non-tunnelers.
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I am playing since 2,5 years now and the amount of tunneling started to increase drastically after the big killer buffs where distance and cooldown got more into killer favor. I completly disagree with the "tunneling is needed" argument. There is no need to tunnel someone at 5 gens out. Killer will always tunnel as long as it is not heavily punished. Survivors get less distane and killers get a smaller cooldown -> faster downs, more tunneling. DS got nerfed -> tunneling got more easy so more tunneling. We introduce a bad alternative to DS namelly OTR -> we just hit the surv directly after the unhook and chase for another 20 seconds because the maps become 2/3 deadzones so we can tunnel with less effort.
All big changes over the last 1,5 years worked into the tunneling favor, and yes, i include the anti facecamp mechanic too as the old campers just started proxycamping or switched to tunneling. Incentives don't work, only hard punishments do and the most fair idea would be some basekit mechanic which works until the total progress on gens is for example 1 gen finsihed and at least the total progress (not finished) of 1.5 other generators spread across the map. Again, there is no need to tunnel this early in the game as killers get the strongest mid/- endgame where resources are burned.
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Goodluck playing without the 20% at all. The best solution is to incentive other play styles. Because I can garuntee an endless decisive strike will be endlessly abused by survivors, just like old bnp, just like old flash lights, just like mft. Bring back old BBQ, or make undying (with 10% faster cleanse speed on the revived hex) basekit. You'll see more survivors on totems, and more hex perks. Lean harder into it with double totem spawn locations so they're harder to find. This will kill tunnelling because other playstyles will be viable
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Yeah, survivor is in a state where your perks basically all have to be anti-tunnel. And killer is in a state of running all gen slowdowns.
Sucks we cant run anything interesting or fun anymore if we want a chance. Solo q survivor feels pretty unplayable rn.
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Probably me.
90sec gens
If it takes the killer 10sec to find you off the rip, you last 45secs, and it takes him 5 secs to hook you, that leaves 30secs to pop gens and the killer isn't even in another chase yet.
As long as you keep 1 guy pushing gens at all times you can trade everyone's first hook and make it out with little effort. The only counters killers have are insta downs, 3 gens, or tunneling out the weakest survivors first
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Of course. Funny is make a lot os hooks, 0 kills and watch every match, all survivor escaping through the gate while they tbaggin and bullying you with their flashlights or when survivors sends you a especifically a Gard of joy, ormond, forest etc with thei brand new parts and rushing gens. Its fair right? should be so funny. Remember, the community are toxic and "poisoned"
Tunnel makes the genrush be agressively, agressively genrush makes the tunnel. Thats a circle and nobody is guilty or, we have the other perspective, everyone is guilty.
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Tunnelling is the one thing which drives so many new players I've tried to introduce away from the game. Which is sad, because trying to explain to them, this is how it is in casual lobbies is hard, It really shouldn't be the norm.
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There's no need to tunnel at 5 gens, yes, but in situations like what I described, you feel extremely pressured. One hook state with 2 or 3 gens left sucks for almost any killer. Especially on the maps that give me flashbacks to cod ghosts while on an m1 killer.
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This topic comes up on the forums all the time, it’s part of the game. I don’t know what people expect honestly. It is what it is. 🤷🏼♂️
Does it suck yes! For sure, but it’s a useful strategy
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Can't wait until killers are running Pain Res, Pop, DMS and Grim Embrace and still tunneling out at 5 gens. And then it'll get nerfed because killrate is too high.
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So on the one hand killers want short chase time and on the other they suggest to survive longer in a chase to counter tunnel. What shall it be chief?
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