How you would change Decisive Strike?
We know this perk is on the road map, so it will be changed. We don't know what BHVR is planning but how you would change it?
Me personally;
I'd do it work for both hook states and make it 5 seconds again. This would reduce tunnelling for sure because right now DS is joke level perk for killers.
Comments
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I think just back to 5 seconds would be fine
Working on both hook states you would see people put on OTR / Unbreakable and then just go bodyblock the killer while invincible
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5 seconds is a must.
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5 seconds and allow it to work in the endgame.
I don't understand the concept of pity kills and why they are so necessary, 4 escapes and 4 kills will inevitably happen between games. A perk shouldn't be an unused slot simply because the survivors did their objective.
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they shouldn´t buff DS like that, jus make it 4 or 5 seconds, perks are not the best way to ´´fix´´ something, especially a paid one
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I’d make it hinder the killer for X amount of seconds following the stun. You can keep the stun for 3 seconds or whatever but then the killer is hindered for 10 seconds after they’ve been stunned.
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5 seconds, no timer, keep the Conspicuous Action nerf and force it to turn off when another Survivor gets hooked.
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Rework it in a way that makes it better for anti-tunnel but doesn't reward survivors who go out of their way to force it upon the killer. The 3 second stun isn't good enough against tunneling killers, but the 5 second stun was too good if survivors used the perk aggressively/bodyblocked the killer to force it when they weren't trying to tunnel.
And get rid of the skill check or at least make it bigger. It's not necessary for an anti-tunnel perk to have a hard skillcheck.
The deactivation in endgame should stay the way it is.
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Problem with endgame DS was that people with it activated would body-block killers from getting another person and, since the gate would be open, it would be a free escape (you'd crawl to the gate or stun the killer). Really wasn't fun to go against, could compare it to FtP + Buckle Up in its current state.
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"And get rid of the skill check or at least make it bigger. It's not necessary for an anti-tunnel perk to have a hard skillcheck."
I just wanted to highlight this because it's the main thing I want to see changed. It feels wrong to me that it still has one. Like if you miss it (even if it's not the hardest) I guess you deserve to get tunneled? How does that make sense? Doesn't this also disproportionately effect newer players as well since they are the worst at skill checks while also being the most vulnerable to tunneling since they suck in chase?
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They won't add anti-tunnel mechanic into game, i am pretty sure of it. Same reason they will never add anti-gen mechanic as well.
So anti-tunnel and anti-gen perks needs to be strong enough. And current DS is just garbage sadly.
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This would not work for killers like Nurse, Wesker, Chucky, Blight, Billy and any killer who has power allow them move faster.
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Make it 4 seconds stun. It's been a while since we had 5 sec stun DS but from what I remember 5 sec was too much. It also still has the issue of being used aggressively like Off the Record so I don''t know if that's really the way to go.
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Just change it back to a 5 second stun. Literally all it needs and it will be a decent and well balanced perk.
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4 Seconds is the most I would go. It's still a very good perk at 3 seconds people just complain that they can't make a tile in narnia when they use it anymore.
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Five second stun and it should completely freeze the killer's power for 5-10 seconds. There needs to be some sort of special consideration for killers like nurse, blight, spirit, etc. I'd honestly make it 80 seconds so it has better synergy with OTR. Tunneling should be a high risk high reward strategy. Not the guaranteed win that it is now.
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Start at 5 seconds and decrease by 0.5 for every gen that's done.
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increase the duration from 60 second to 80 seconds to be on par with Off the record.
Remove end-game penalty.
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Decisive Strike:
Stun duration from 3 seconds -> 5 seconds.
Can now be used on both unhooks, not just once.
Off The Record:
No longer grants endurance.
Instead, removes scratch marks, sounds, and blood trails, blocks aura reading and prevents screams and killer instinct for 60 seconds after unhook. Performing a conspicuous action disables Off The Record early.
This way DS is the guaranteed value, and OTR is a riskier but potentially more powerful anti-tunnel.
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4 second stun, deactivates after gates are powered, active for 60 seconds and if at all possible deactivates when taking a protection hit to prevent it being used as a SWF weapon.
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Their power is shut down for the 10 second duration as well. Shut. It. Down.
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I don't trust the game to deactivate it on protection hit as long as it boils down to "IF you take a hit AND there's an injured survivor nearby = protection hit". Imagine honestly trying to run from the killer then having your DS turn off from a mysterious protection hit, then you see an injured Meg run out of a bush near you or something.
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4s stun because 5s was meant for enduring
no other changes and I will die on this hill
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Exactly the issue. I'd love for it to do so but the game picks up protection hit very vaguely.
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4 second would keep it as garbage as current version.
And how game will tell you just took protection hit? Especially when someone bodyblocks for you but killer pass them and hit you. And now you are on ground without DS?
Yeah, this does not make any sense.
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There is still basekit BT. The basekit BT makes it fair for both side that both have to put some effort on rescuing the hook or teammate. A perk should not guarantee an escape/kill. The main point of anti tunneling perks is not letting survivors die early.
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I remember when it was used as a SWF weapon, 5 seconds was way too long. And as I said, if it was possible I'd like that change but I understand how vague protection hits would be.
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And 4 seconds are doing nothing against m2 killers, they will catch you pretty fast again. Every second you make distance will help you, so 5 seconds matter for those killers.
Before you ask me what about m1 killers, yes i know they are exists. But most of games i am seeing Chucky, Nurse, Xeno, Wesker, Blight etc. So anti-tunnel perks need to be balanced against popular and strong killer, not weak killers.
If somehow they make killer lose power for 10 seconds, even 3 seconds DS will be fine. But if they keep everything same as the current DS 4 seconds won't change the fact perk is still garbage.
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4 seconds is plenty to get to a new tile. Remember, my suggestion makes it active for 60 seconds, so you could run the killer for 50, get the stun, and get to a new tile to waste more time for your team to do gens or take hits.
They could also make it where there's no delay to movement after landing once you hit the skillcheck.
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I say make the killer incapacitated. Never been done before. And by incapacitated, I mean they are unable to use their powers for a certain amount of seconds including the stun time. This will prevent nurse, blights, weskers, etc from immediately using their power to go after the same person.
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Why should the survivor get a free escape, in the endgame it has literally 0 counterplay. You can't slug them, and you can't hook them.
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5 second stun
usable twice
No skillcheck perk just does it job automatically when you get picked up
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7 seconds stun. Deactivates upon entering a locker and disables flashlights for the time it's active.
Stronger when the killer tunnels but weaker when they don't.
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4 second stun.
Skillcheck made into a normal skillcheck.
Upon use, the survivor gains +25% Haste for 5 seconds.
Still one-use, still deactivates in endgame.
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But then mobility killers moving at 200%+ will just ignore it. Just make is 5 seconds or even 6 seconds, plus disable power for 3-4 seconds too.
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Ds isn't a joke, it's no supreme deterrent to tunneling anymore but it is not bad. Not saying it shouldn't be buffed so bot killers get punished but it's good.
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It's not pity kills. Even if what you said came to fruition, the good killers could still work around it while all the bad ones would just be left without options. Stop making it seem like a hook in end game is free, any person who knows a little about how endgame works even in solo queue can make a 4 man escape work unless the hook is too absurd.
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Used to think this was easy, but it's really not because you have to strike a balance between being good at anti-tunnelimg, but not also being good at body blocking.
Things that should be added/are needed: -
- Uniform 80s timer to be like OTR.
- Deactivates if entering a locker to prevent forced grabs instead of downs.
- 4 second stun to account for 1.3s drop time.
- 8 second power block to affect chase killers equally to m1 killers.
Things that shouldn't be added: -
- End game deactivation, otherwise it is impossible for the killer to prevent an escape.
Considerations/problems that still need solving: -
- Some mechanism to deactivate when the killer has put enough chase time into/hooked other survivors to prevent body blocking/aggressive use of DS. How should this interact when slugged? Not counting when slugged allows body blocking still, whereas counting allows slugging off hook and simply chasing long enough/hooking to bypass DS.
- Deactivate when taking a Protection Hit? How to prevent deactivation from hook exchange?
- Multiple activations, can only occur if the above issues are sorted. The fact all 4 survivors can take DS means all attempts to weaponise it must be killed at all costs.
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i think he's talking about chemical trap hindered penalty like 50% for 10 seconds. So even if you high mobility killer, your m/s will be slower than survivor. DS is wrong perk to buff if the goal was to deter tunneling.
The perk i would recommend buffing is Made For This. Instead of 3% haste for when your in deep wound, make it like 10% haste. Watch as killer become terrified to hit borrow time and off the record to trigger this deadly buff. that is great deterrent to stop chasing the same survivor.
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So blight would still be moving at 115 at least and nurse would flat out ignore it.
In your scenario I still ignore it if I ever tunneled as blight. I stand by the idea that tunneling is unhealthy but not op until A tier killers are involved. They need to make the consequence so absurd even a current alch ring blight on a top 1% level couldn't viably tunnel you out, then buff m1 aspects/killers to compensate.
I only commented on what I would do to ds because of the nature of this thread, I'd prefer it base kit. Although I've always hated the idea of limiting what killers do to a linear path, I already do so myself so it makes no difference to me at this point.
Every killer is the same. Get to tile < kick gen first even if a free hit is available< then chase but probably drop to go back to hook. Eruption rotted killers brains.
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"Deactivates if entering a locker to prevent forced grabs instead of downs."
Just because a survivor jumps in a locker doesn't mean they're not being tunnelled. Using slugging as a workaround is justifiable if the survivor is bodyblocking, but if they're in a locker, they aren't bodyblocking.
There's no reason to disable it when the survivor enters a locker.
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i think nurse's blink is based off m/s. i wonder if it would affect her blink speed like the reverse old bad man's last breath. I don't kick any pallets as nurse so I never tried to blink with chemical trap debuff. The result would be very slow blink if it works. 50% hindered for 10 second for DS is no joke.
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I couldn't confirm you idea either. I'm sure there's some nurse main who would know though.
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And then survivors equip Off the Record and Made for This to bodyblock while off-hook and then become borderline uncatchable when the killer attempts to punish them for using their defensive perks offensively. Killer loses even when trying to chase other survivors.
When you give anything to survivors, you have to ask yourself, "Will people use this for reasons other than its intended purpose?" Because if they can, they will.
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OK so you've responded to one part of my post, without actually addressing the major point I was making, so I'll make it clearer.
You are correct, you can still be tunneled, but you are only considering the tunnel scenario. The issue that I'm highlighting with DS is a survivor can still make themselves a pain by body blocking, lingering for flashlight/pallet saves and taking hits for their teammates, especially when combined with things like OTR or DH. This will usually happen to defend the person that has just made the unhook.
As much as you try to limit DS, there is always the risk of it being used as an invincibility shield to limit and bait the killer. If as killer you are forced to attack them to get them out of the way, your actual target can make a lot of distance from you. Your counter to this if you suspect DS, you down them and leave them slugged, you ensure that person cannot contribute to gens and forces a teammate to come pick them up, which you can play around to intercept or just buy time. This gives you some pressure for the cost of now having to catch up to your previous target... if you even can in a timely manner. Of course when combining DS with OTR and DH it can end up costing you even more time, as now you don't even have the DS survivor slugged either.
So if you then try to make the best of a bad situation and slug them, they can instead hop in a locker and now you've lost your target AND wasted even more time chasing this survivor. You are now in a situation where you can't even grab them out of a locker for fear of DS, and you have to count out the timer and cost yourself even more time... and all of this could well be a bait... they might not even have DS.
So that's why I say lockers should disable it. If you have other mechanisms to prevent the weaponising of DS that prevent the above scenario then great. This locker point is on the table, but I'm not wrong by highlighting this as a scenario.
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I would bring a very wild change just to delete Tunnel Meta in a split second:
- 4 seconds stun
- 10 seconds power remove
I know, that sounds extreme but DS has to be meta again.
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Add incapacitate status to killers. 😏
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People love throwing up their "But if this happens!' 'If they have these perks then!"
Im sure many will disagree, but if a perk is bad, overpowered, etc, then it will be by itself. If its not OP by itself, please just stop. Exceptions happen, ofc. BU+FTP is a good example. Definitely TOO strong, and its obvious. But with the meta being Tunnel tunnel tunnel, its sorely needed.
But DS? In no way does trying to combo DS make anything OP right now. Unless, of course, you craft a very niche scenario. But Ive stopped listening by then.
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At the very least, back to 5 seconds. But there needs to be more to make it somewhat effective. Buffing it back to 5 seconds will do nothing, because Killers know that tunneling is highly efficient and they wont fear DS anymore, since the reward for just eating a stun will be way too big for them.
I always thought that 5 seconds + at least 10 seconds of no Scratchmarks, grunts of pain, pools of blood would be need, because this would mean that you can at least try to get away.
I have seen other ideas that the Killers power should be disabled for 10 seconds as well. Which also is not bad, because it will most likely hurt the strong Killers more than the weak Killers. Because this was always the problem with DS, the weaker Killers are more impacted than the strong Killers. But if a Nurse cannot blink to you immediatly, it will hurt her to get stunned.
In the end, I hope they just dont buff it to 4 seconds. Because just buffing the duration will not help at all.
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5 seconds is all this perk needs.
It seems incredibly unlikely that BHVR will do that at this point. Even if they do, it's somewhat sad if the upcoming road map means it took almost 2 years to change this one number back.
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I agree with the second part, but want to add that nerfing it to 3 seconds was already nonsense. The only complaint about DS was that it works in Endgame (which it still should do, but I get behind the change), nerfing the duration just killed it.
But 5 seconds is not "all this perk needs". Killers have realized that removing 1 Survivor early is the best thing to do. With this knowledge, I can guarantee you, Killers will not respect DS, even if it is back at 5 seconds. Because the benefit of just pushing through DS is way too big.
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