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Please stop nerfing killer perks
All the killer perks that have been nerfed over the last 2 years is Very crazy. I've noticed that when survivors lose a game or two, they complain and then dbd instantly nerfs killer perks. Honestly, it's a 16 vs 4 in perks, I feel like killer should be able to have 5 or six perks. It would definitely make a change and killer can actually be payable for once. The toxic community, I ignore, they need to get off the game but, the game is pretty survivor sided, every survivor we have gotten in the past year just have perks killers can't even counter. This game is amazing and I'll always love it, but I just hate it how dbd doesn't care about some of the killers.
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It's sad that STBFL got changed, since old STBFL before the base kit 10% was added, was fine. I think the 4% change would have been just fine to make it what they used to be, but idk.
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I do hope that they listen to the backlash about the STBFL nerf. I don't mind the nerf to 4%, but being able to avoid losing stacks was a key part of the perk that made it fun. It is a strong and powerful perk, but not game-breaking nor overpowered.
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At least they sometimes attempt to take useless perks and buff them, like they're doing with Grim Embrace. But giving killers perks that do things makes people very mad.
I don't mind STBFL getting nerfed so you can't play around it with M2 attacks, but having you lose stacks from the Obsession losing health ever for any reason is terrible design.
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The only thing I don't like is that it's silly the survivor can just injure themself to somehow sap power from the killer and have them lose stacks.
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STBFL is terrible design anyway.
Any perk that messes with movement speed has been terrible for the game. Us or Them will always complain about it being ridiculous. Its just the nature of this game/community.
Now, with these proposed changes, STBFL will be very killer specific. Wont be seeing it on Trapper, Plague, Legion, or anyone else with passive damage. Was it used on them anyway? I dunno. But thats my take.
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BHVR's recent reliance on Haste buffs has been lazy. Knight, Skull Merchant, Trapper, various perks, none of these were valuable and they hardly fixed anything, if you ask me. Funnily, at the same time, replacing Buckle Up's Haste buff with Endurance was also a mistake because it's led into the FTP+BU combo, and I wish they'd revert it.
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Now that I totally agree with. Applying haste is not solving any problems. At -most-, movement speed should only be 2-3 seconds in length. But I'd be fine with haste leaving altogether. It just makes people upset and no one feels good about it after.
If I get runned down and lost due to being outplayed or whatever, its all good. But haste is just a lazy way to give power to a perk. And yeah, BHVR needs hire a team specifically for perk discussion and creation after these recent perks. MFT, BU+Ftp, they just can't see, to get it. This needs to stop already...
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I would advise you to look up Kill Rates and then patch notes.
I think you'll be surprised.
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I feel like killer should be able to have 5 or six perks.
4 perks is plenty. If you're struggling, you're either using sub-optimal builds, playing one of the weaker Killers, or just need to improve. A good Nurse or Blight, for example, doesn't need any perks to win, let alone 5 or 6.
the game is pretty survivor sided
According to Nightlight, the current Kill Rate is 55%. So DBD is Killer-sided on average. In fact, not a single Killer is averaging below 50% right now.
every survivor we have gotten in the past year just have perks killers can't even counter.
The only Survivor perk in the past year that became meta was Made For This, which has since been heavily nerfed. No other perk is even close to meta. In fact, most of them have been garbage recently.
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Honestly if your going to be bitter, just do not reply. Please and thank you, most kill rates now adays is from people throwing or people who are beginners in new lobbies, you'd be surprised.
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I'm not struggling, but an extra perk slot would balance things out and it would be fun to have builds for once, 4 perks is moderate and would not be considered plenty. Alot of trials have people giving up because of a killer they don't like or the throw or it's Newer lobbies.
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It's more of making a build, making bulds in 2024 just is not fun anymore because perks get nerfed.
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Not saying I can't win first off. There are some things in the game you can't counter, but it's whatever, survivors can always throw. If you didn't know, survivors complain more about killers when they can't win, they always say it. Again, builds aren't fun at all, trial's are just pretty quick and lame and people like to be toxic, toxicity isn't the problem though, it's just I can see how this game will die, and it's mainly people who main the survivor role complaining 24/7.
Dead crickets .
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Global stats are subject to throws and sub par skill level, it's silly to try using that as an arguing point. Stats on the best players for each killer vs the best survivors is the only clear view you're going to get and balance should trickle down from that.
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So then the game is actually not Survivor-sided.
Either the data supports you or it doesn't, you can't cherry-pick information.
Survivors have had approximately ONE meta perk in the last year, which was absolutely gutted. To say that the game is Survivor-sided at anything except the HIGHEST level is wrong.
Post edited by Pulsar on30 -
STBFL really didn't need a nerf, it is unfortunate this perk was sent to the chopping block.
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Five or six perks? Did I just read that correctly?
Pulsar has every right to reply to a public discussion and going against your abysmal suggestion does not equal them being bitter. I mean this is absolutely silly.
Most perks got nerfed due to how annoying they were, take Eruption for example. They were far from healthy for the game.
The classic 'the game is dying' approach due to a biased outlook on balance changes without providing any relevant examples.
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I feel this isn't 100% the case, considering how hated Ultimate Weapon is and it hasn't been touched.
That said, their ideas of nerfing/buffing perks is strange. STBFL should have been adjusted for the increased killer animation speeds, I agree that much, but giving the downside of ANY damage to the obsession taking 2 stacks makes it useless on a few killers that benefit the most from the increased animation time.
Another thing I tend to dislike is survivors claiming things like the Grim Embrace buff being too oppressive when it will only work on 4 fresh hooks, even saying it promotes tunneling? 10 seconds of a blocked generator won't really matter when the killer tunnels someone out, and he'd still need to target other survivors to get value as is. Even if he tunnels the first survivor he downs, the generators will unblock about the time that survivor is unhooked and hopefully a teammate or two will take a protection hit while other(s) stick to their gens. That's what I did during the PTB.
On the survivor side, you have something like Deja Vu that isn't an issue by itself, but the problem is if a full SWF run it with resilience/prove thyself and good toolboxes while other survivors run chase builds against killers with little mobility, you'll make gens fly much faster. The perk itself isn't bad, but with most survivor perks it's a matter of synergy with 3 other survivors instead of on it's own like a killer perk would be. It's also why Buckle Up+FTP is such a strong combination.
Really in the end, there should be more playtesting on the devs side of things on perk changes. There's so many of them that combinations of perks, powers, and items are becoming a real problem to deal with when these things rise up and a huge backlash when things get addressed because we're used to them and how they feed the 'our side' debates. PTB is a great idea for testing, but the issue with it is you're still limited to your inventory in the PTB. Often times I skip PTBs because I don't have millions of BP saved to test a new killer/survivor's perks as much as I'd like to try and find things people may often overlook. Really, PTB needs to be a standalone client at this point.
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Yeah, but I’m quite sure that it’s getting nerfed because a full 8 stacks and with right killers it could ignore the endurance quite well and just tunnel. I’ve also noticed it can be quite extra devastating to Solo Q, because there’s no real effective way for the obsession to figure it out and pester the killer. Also it’s very popular, like I see it in basically every game.
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Think of it this way though:
- You're already not struggling.
- Most killers are apparently not struggling, judging by statistics.
- And you want to give all killers a whole extra perk slot.
The only way you could balance that out, is with some very heavy compensatory nerf to the killer perks so that five perks gives roughly the same value as four.
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Also absolutely nasty on clown with rapid brutality most autopilot build in the game
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It is a very popular perk indeed, but I'm not sure if its use for tunneling was enough to warrant a nerf. But Freddy won't be affected, so at least I can still use it.
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they should look very carefully into plot twist, ftp and trapper with this change.
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-Iron Will
-Self Care
-Decisive Strike
-Dead Hard
-Circle of Healing
-Prove Thyself
-Spine Chill
-Made For This
Yeah totally just killer perks getting nerfed. It's not like survivors have also lost their fair share of perks too.
Not to mention this is going off of nightlight's stats, an unofficial 3rd party source, I guarantee the actual kill rates across all MMRs and regions is probably much higher than what's displayed here.
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True, but I believe people will get it over it quickly though. The only legitimate killer I see really getting devastated from this is Pig, shocker. Most killers I believe can move on to exposed perks. With Hag and Slinger, I've started to use Starstruck + Agitation instead. And even some good users of this perk like Demogorgon or Pyramid Head in the right hands use their M2 well enough they don't need it.
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Yeah, the only killer really hurt by this change is Pig, but for any other killer I can't see this change dropping them that much, many other killers who have good synergy with STBFL don't really need it in my opinion, like good Demos for example will shred more then use their basic attack.
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You got me with one meta perk, but that doesn't exclude all perks in general, no matter what anybody says, there are survivor perks that you cannot counter or are just drop dead unfair such as, getting unhooked and you still get healed and a body with Adrenaline.
Nothing takes the fact that the game is under the survivors favor, just like Friday for example, eventually there will be a point kill rates go down, worse case scenario.. the game dies.
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Some of those perks getting nerfed make no difference at times, and killer gameplay also gets changed as well sometimes such as Deathslinger aiming his sights down and his terror radius going to 32, because a survivor crapped his pants and got scared then became sour. Playing killer is supposed to be enjoyable with builds extra, same for survivor.. but killers get more nerfed than anything because a survivor dies one game or two.
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I get you, you make good points, but no matter what anyone says, a 16 vs 4 is not 100% balanced. Yeah people are going to disagree but it's true. To make the game fun with builds ect. 4 perks is pretty lame for the killer, 5 would make a huge difference, you'd be surprised.
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An extra perk slot would be game changing for killers, making builds nowa days is pretty lame with nerfed perks, so yes you did read that correctly, re-read if you can't remember. I do not care who is against what I say.
Streamers/YouTubers, for dbd, for the most part take there breaks because obviously they need a break, but also because the game just isn't really the way it used to be when is was moderately more balanced, than survivors being able to have power over the killer with some perks.
For crying out loud even a map is able to slow a killer down with smoke that burst out the walls for aliens map.
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No, it's not 100% balanced.
But the imbalance favours the killer side. The side you want to give a colossal buff to. That doesn't help things.
Sure, you might be able to make a bigger build (would it be more fun though? Are there any synergies that size currently in the game?), but that'd go for survivors too. And according to statistics, they need it more.
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Wait, we can lose as killer ?
Blight, Pain Res, Pop.
Yeah, please make changes not if it's " too good " but when it's 30% of pickrate for each perk
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u do realize their like so many kilter perks and maybe like 20 of the actually see used because they are over tuned compared to the rest they need to nerf strong perks so people actually use others every game right now is's , pop , pain res, corrupt, STBFL, BBQ, sloppy, surge , ultimate weapon, lethal all if these perks are way too powerful is why u see them every every game if they were weaker u would actually see some diversity in killer builds but guess what until they are nerfed your ant and the opposite goes for survivor they so many perks that are some what good but guess what in order for survivor to get any value at all the entire 4 perk slots have to be use to support 1 perks which don't seem fair TBH no one runs any build with just 1 perk as survivor because they are quite frank to trash to even use without dedicating your entire build to that 1 perks and killer get all of them just an BK no perk slot need want to win as killer easy tunnel off hook and slugg all match 90% if the time u will win that 's BK BTW and survivors don't have the luxury what so ever they just have to deal with it and we all know over 70% of these fourms are killers LGR here
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Killer should have 5 or 6 perks?
Big NO.
Also what makes you say this game is survivorside when stats obviously favoring killers lol.
Also i don't know why you are acting like only killer perks nerfed. Countless survivor perks gutted as well
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I can't believe I have to say this yet again, but a 55% killrate in DbD is not being killer-sided on average, but the contrary.
Thanks to the assymetrical nature of the game and how the MMR system work, true mathematical balance is 60% kill rate on average (reason of why devs aim to that number). In other words, having less than that means the game is survivor sided on average.
Also, "No other perk is even close to meta"? Logical, with this powerhouses of perks being the most used ones:
I mean, it's not like survivors are missing any more strong perks. Also, guess what?
It's not like killers have got any hot perk that everyone is using, either.
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How could the game possibly be Survivor-sided?
The last official stats we have show that Survivors have a 39% escape rate at "high mmr".
Killers have been massively buffed in the last two years. I would actually go as far to say that the game is Killer-sided at an average level.
Once again, I am asking you, politely, to prove your point. How is the game Survivor-sided?
Oh, also, Adrenaline activates once after every gen is done. It's a fine perk. Shouldn't wake you up against Freddy though.
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Shouldn't wake you up against Freddy though.
Yeah, this was overkill. Patch 1.8.1 was already a big nerf to Freddy, there was no need to make Adrenaline another nerf to him.
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Killers win far more than they lose, survivors lose a bit more than they win. The game is not, in any way, survivor sided at the moment.
true mathematical balance is 60% kill rate on average
Already proven to not necessarily be true. In fact, looking at the stats at the moment, it shows an average killer winrate of a little over 48%, with survivors winning a little under 45%. That's pretty close to balanced, just slightly favouring killers.
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Not going to explain to you again, in excruciating detail, in any way and form possible, why a 60% ON AVERAGE kill rate means 40% ON AVERAGE winrate for both sides.
If the kill rate is lower than 60% ON AVERAGE, the game is ON AVERAGE not killer sided. Period. You could come up with all the mental gymnastics and fallacies you want, it's an empirical mathematical fact.
And even if it wasn't and you were right, then time for survivors to stop using that number to argue that the game is killer sided without even understanding how things work and what it really represents, like the person I was talking to ("According to Nightlight, the current Kill Rate is 55%. So DBD is Killer-sided on average.") or our friend Pulsar over here:
"The last official stats we have show that Survivors have a 39% escape rate at 'high mmr'" That means the game is on average 1% killer sided in high MMR, so you just proved those 2 years of "massive buffs" was needed and it's just after those buffs that the game started to be balanced / slightly killer sided on average.
So congrats BHVR, you at last somewhat balanced the game and ended the survivor supremacy.
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Not going to explain to you again, in excruciating detail, in any way and form possible, why a 60% ON AVERAGE kill rate means 40% ON AVERAGE winrate for both sides.
You never explained it at all. You looked at the AVERAGE statistics as they were and outright claimed they were a mathematical impossibility. You were furiously denying observable reality.
If the kill rate is lower than 60% ON AVERAGE, the game is ON AVERAGE not killer sided. Period. You could come up with all the mental gymnastics and fallacies you want, it's an empirical mathematical fact.
There was nothing empirical about it. Your theory was entirely that: Theoretical. The empirical, IE: the stats that were shown, disagreed with your theory.
I even pointed out to you that the model you used would mandate that any killer with an average kill rate below 50% would have an average win rate of 0%, which would necessitate that they had never gotten a 3K+ in even one singular match.
If you leave your theory behind for a moment and look at what is observable in the statistics shown on Nightlight at the moment, we can see that killers, on average, are at a 48% winrate. Survivors are, on average, at a 45% winrate.
Which of those two numbers is higher?
Because right now, you are fully claiming that 45%>48%.
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A 55% kill rate means killers om average aren't even winning their matches. 55% is just a teeny bit over a 2K. A killer win for a match is a 3K.
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Quick corrections, it would be 62.5%.
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Post edited by MechWarrior3 on1
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Kill rate and win rate are not 1:1. The system is far too complex to draw any kind of simplistic calculation from one to the other.
I mean, compare Nurse and Wesker.
Nurse's Kill rate is 54.94%, and she has a winrate (3K+) of 49.21%.
Wesker's Kill rate is 55.60%, and he has a winrate (3L+) of 48.59%.
If winrate followed immediately and mathematically from killrate, the above would be impossible. Killrate should not be focused on. Win distribution should.
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How does that work out?
Shouldn't a 60% KR mean that Killers are managing, on average, two Kills trending towards three?
Likewise, does a 39% ER not mean that one, trending towards two, Survivors escape the match?
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And we Killers have PR PGTW what's your point?
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If you connected my reply to whom I was addressing you would see my point clearly.
They stated survivors only had 1 meta perk to use all year but forgot to mention all the other meta perks as if they don’t exists. My point being is meta perks are gutted on both sides. I don’t agree with however MFT getting the nerf it did. It wasn’t even that drastic. Most people that complained about it were trickster mains running 4.4 but since that buff it’s irrelevant
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I think, my friend, that @Pulsar is talking about survivor perks being added to the meta,which the most recent example would be Made For This before its nerf.
Overall, the community seems to be very hostile towards survivors getting a new meta perk. That doesn't mean Made For This was fine, to my understanding the perk was poorly designed, but it seems to happen every single time a new survivor perk has the potential to reach meta levels.
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Makes sense, and I would agree with that 💯.
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...I was literally the person you replied to :(
I believe I was referencing NEW perks. FTP and Buckle Up are 3 and 4 years old, respectively.
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