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The Onryo Feedback
In our latest update, we've made adjustment's to The Onryo's Power, VHS Tapes, and various Add-ons.
We'd love to hear your feedback below.
Comments
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Will those changes be reverted or you can’t say until next week, I am really anxious if this version of sadako will stay cause she was perfect from the ptb
I might as well continue with the feedback, the changes you made to sadako are horrible, bringing back her cooldown is what people hated about sadako from yesterday, allowing players to condemn freely gives survivors to keep in mind of the tapes to avoid getting killed faster, locking condemn after hooking by 4 is another terrible change, it’s basically pointless to hook again and forced sadako to tunnel and slug survivors off the ground again, the Sadako from the ptb was so much better and much healthier for the game, she didn’t require to tunnel and slug and was enjoyed by a majority of players from the ptb, that’s all my feedback and I do hope these nerfs get reverted
Post edited by jasonq500 on12 -
PTB Sadako was perfectly fine. The post-PTB changes were not warranted. The cooldown to condemned pretty much discourages using her movement because it's no longer efficient, and waiting 10 seconds loses a ton of pressure. Meanwhile, survivors can take a tape extremely fast and stop 7-ish entire condemned cooldown teleports since TVs turned off by survivors are off for 70 seconds.
The condemned hook cap, in my opinion, is only extremely bad because of the condemned cooldown, since if survivors barely even do tapes they still keep most condemned off of themselves. Therefore, the one who does end up getting condemned becomes the target of extreme tunneling to keep that condemned on them. It's a terrible feedback loop.
Either tapes need a downside again, or these changes need to be reverted and have the PTB Sadako play out to see what is needed. Maybe even keep condemned hook capping to be safe.
Edit: And for the love of everything, she needs an addon pass yet again. Iridescent Tape is pointless to run, VCR is bad since TVs have an aura so survivors know she doesn't teleport to it, and tape editing deck makes no sense to run if tapes are just a boon to the survivors.
Post edited by ChaosWam on16 -
shes trash now. theres your feedback
22 -
The changes made after the PTB should be reverted.
The cap on locking in Condemned on hook doesn't promote tunneling. If you are being tunneled, you don't have time to remove Condemned anyways. At that point, it makes no difference whether it's locked in or not.
17 -
I agree with the reasoning that hooking shouldn't lock in any more than 2 condemned since that obviously encourages focusing on the survivor that didn't play around Sadako's power. The problem is that this change means you can hook someone three times and they still won't have full condemned lock. I have a solution that can kill 2 birds with one stone.
From what I gather from the Sadako dev notes, focusing on a survivor with condemned is bad gameplay, but focusing on a survivor with hook states is unpunished. To fix this make hooks only count for half a state, then we can then kill with condem their fourth hook (3.5/6 state) and it will discourage focusing on one person for hook states AND condemned. Win-Win.
Either that or just remove condemed lock cap. We need some consistency here.
1 -
I think the new hook-based condemn maximum limit changes make Sadako's Condemned very weak and a total non-threat until death hook... which, at that point, what is the point in forcing condemnation? They're already dead.
I don't totally mind the limit on how far condemnation can be locked in, because it can get very oppressive when tunneled. However, limiting it to 4 only when survivors are at death hook feels a little futile to even try until they're already dead.
The power cooldown is also incredibly unfun, it eliminates her ability to keep pressure rolling and widespread.
Most of the changes from PTB to live were unnecessary and just made her incredibly weak, and in my opinion need to be reverted.
I also still think that enabling survivors to see the auras of powered TVs still makes the VCR addon COMPLETELY useless, because what's the point in simulating fake projection effects when a survivor can look at the aura of a TV to see if it stayed on or off?
Post edited by NotJared on8 -
ptb onryo was fine, survivors just had to re-learn how to play against her but you shot her down before the majority of your player base could play it I am reminded of the original Freddy nerf being premature.
maxing the condemn lock-in to two to discourage tunnelling dose not help as if the killer wants to tunnel they can and will anyway. all this change dose is make slugging the optimal strategy again.
the change to make it so onryo's teleport can only apply condemn every 10 seconds is also a bad change there was already enough counterplay with survivors being able to see the auras of the TVs within 16 meters that's warning enough if they are just sitting in range of a tv as onryo teleports to a bunch of other ones its their fault stop insulting our intelligence with these hand holding changes.
onryo has far to much counterplay now.
but if you are going to to stick with these changes
increase the maximum condemn lock-in to 3 but remove the condemn 10 second timer onryo's teleporting to other TVs to apply condemn to survivors in range of a different one is not broken
Post edited by LiunUK on13 -
I don’t agree with the hook being locked at two condemn, people are just gonna slug as sadako again
7 -
She’s entirely too underwhelming. My thoughts are on the previous thread.
6 -
The new 10sec cool-down on condemn is fine IF BHVR makes additional changes to address the other short comings in her kit. Mainly how the counterplay disproportionately punishes Onryo and rewards survivors.
The issues with her strong counterplay
Right now survivors can avoid practically any condemn simply by looking around the gen they are at, seeing a TV aura and then turning off the TV. This also has the additional effect of denying Onryo's mobility. Since holding a VHS tape is now risk free, there is no reason not to do this simple counterplay. This counterplay is perfectly fine and healthy, if the necessary adjustments are made. The main issue is what can Sadako do to build condemn pressure after survivors do this simple counterplay.
Once survivors learn this basic counterplay in the coming weeks, Onryo will be unable to spread condemn to survivors working gens most of the time. The result of this is that she will have to push survivors away from gens and teleport in chase to build condemn. This becomes a problem though.
If survivors can always see the auras of powered TVs within 16m, they will always know if they are at a risk of getting condemn. This gives them a lot of information not just when working a gen, but also in chase. Survivors can use these auras to see if she teleported to a close TV in chase. They can use these TV auras to know the best direction to run away if she teleports to a close TV. They can use these auras to know if she didn't teleport to a nearby TV and went somewhere else.
Simply put, survivors having such easy access to her TV auras gives them too much information and allows almost no uncertainty when deciding what the best possible move is when trying to counter her. This punishes Onryo a great deal and removes a lot of surprise or mindgames with TV usage.
Condemn in this version is much more difficult to build up for Onryo, it is unnecessary for survivors to have so many tools at their disposal to counter her in return outside of simply taking a tape before working a gen. Another issue is the 1 second tape insert speed.
With a 1 second tape insert duration, survivors to be able to drop off their tape mid-chase with 1s insert speeds.This means that any hard earned condemn can be easily removed, possibly before she even has the chance to lock in any condemn progress. Since there is now no practical risk to holding a VHS tape, and with condemn harder to build up, it is reasonable that survivors have to be more careful and strategic about how they drop off their tapes.
Onryo is a killer with a weak chase power. All she has going for her with condemn pressure and mobility. If her counterplay is too easy or forgiving for survivors, they will be able to deny both her condemn pressure and her mobility at low risk. At the same time Onryo will suffer a great cost from these actions by not having mobility due to her TVs being off and a lack of condemn pressure to make up for her weak chase power.
How to address her strong counterplay
TV auras
I understand BHVR likely wants to keep TV auras visible for survivors in order to help to figure out the counterplay and not make condemn oppressive to new players / soloq. A good solution therefore would be this:
- If a survivors is holding a tape, they can no longer see the TV auras of all powered TVs within 16m; instead they will only be able to see the TV aura of their target tape drop off TV.
- Additionally, when a survivor is in chase, they will also not be able to see the auras of powered TVs within 16m.
These 2 changes would allow survivors the ability to still easily find their first TV to avoid condemn, while still reducing the effectiveness of her strong counterplay. If survivors want to run around the map in order to turn off all her TVs, they will have a more difficult time finding them as well. If Onryo is chasing them, they will no longer have perfect information on whether they are near a TV to determine if she teleports to it and how to best avoid her if she does.
These suggested changes would still allow her counterplay to be easier and more straightforward for newer players, while still allowing for and providing some challenge for skilled survivors against a skilled Onryo.
Tape insert speeds
With 1 second tape insert speeds, the animation is so quick that on the PTB, survivors were able to quickly drop off their tapes mid-chase to avoid getting condemn locked in.
The best way to address this is to restore the tape insert speed back to 2 seconds.
This will be beneficial within her current state and these proposed changes. Survivors will still be able to avoid condemn by powered TVs when working a gen; however if Onryo is able to push them away and apply condemn while chasing them, survivors will not be able to just quickly remove all her progress in front of Onryo's face mid-chase.
Survivors should have to think about how to not be seen when trying to drop off their tapes. It should not be possible for them to just run straight towards their TV in chase without thought and insert it in the killers face.
The most urgent necessary add-on changes
Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-Soaked Cloth
Always turning off TVs when working gens as her main counterplay has the side-effect of making the Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-Soaked Cloth incredibly useless; I would strongly suggest BHVR reexamine these add-ons.
I suggest making these add-ons activate instead under the following condition (Pinwheel as example):
- While survivors are within 8 meters of a TV turned off by a survivor, they gain the Oblivious effect.
This would allow these add-ons to still be useful and would serve as a way for Onryo to address the strong counterplay within this version of Sadako, and a means to try and play around it. I think such a change would be very healthy and would allow for more creative and fun play.
Iridescent Videotape
This add-on is a great concept. It allows Onryo to trade away all her condemn pressure in exchange for mobility. It is also balanced by having a longer TV off duration when survivors perform the counterplay to her TVs. However there is one major problem with this add-on.
Since the add-on removes all Onryo's condemn pressure, it allows survivors to freely disable her TVs at no risk. A team with a smart survivor can easily run around from TV to TV using their auras and disable them all. Each TV would be off for 84 seconds due to this add-ons debuff, which is a very long time in DBD. This counterplay crushes her and completely negates the entire point of the add-on. A mobility add-on where smart survivors can easily remove all your mobility is pointless. This makes the add-on an actual significant liability against good teams as it can render her virtually powerless.
I suggest the following changes to the add-on to address this:
- The auras of all TV's are hidden from survivors, or the range is reduced to 8 meters.
- When survivors are carrying a VHS tape, they cannot interact with any TV other than their assigned tape drop off TV.
- When survivors are carrying a VHS tape, they cannot see the auras of TVs other than their assigned tape drop off TV.
The inability to see TV auras or range reduction would help stop survivors from completely shutting down her power with this add-on. Likely the TV auras were added to make condemn not oppressive and provide survivors a way to quickly be aware of their condemn risk and how to quickly counter it. Since condemn is not an issue when running this add-on, I feel the new TV auras are not needed here.
These changes would ensure she can still use this add-on for mobility, while also still providing survivors with a decent counterplay of during her TVs off at key locations for a significant 84 seconds (almost an entire gen of progress!). These changes simply make it so survivors cannot abuse this long cool-down duration to rapidly turn off multiple TVs, leaving her with no useful mobility.
Since she has no condemn threat or slowdown from this add-on and the duration debuff to survivors turning off TVs is significant, I feel these proposed changes are very fair and would allow the add-on to be more useful, balanced, and fun.
TLDR:
Sadako needs some changes to make her counterplay less strong and more balanced. When survivors learn her current counterplay, condemn is very hard to build but very easy to remove. Survivors are greatly rewarded for turning off her TVs to avoid condemn while also shutting down her mobility. This makes her counterplay low risk high reward for survivors and disproportionately hurts her compared to the coutnerplay of other killers.
6 -
You're right I forgot about this
Should also make bleedout takes 30 minutes so killers don't focus on those with low timers.
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Horrible idea for survivors, being slugged for 30 minutes does not sound fun, just give sadako to hook survivors on the amount of locked condemn she gets
3 -
Reposting my previous ideas 💡
I put a lot of thought into this after 2000 hours of playing our beloved TV girl.
I have great suggestions behavior please! 🙏🏼 Please take a look at the addons again. Out of all the purple addons only 1 of them is worth using…kinda…sorta with this update. (Tape editing deck) the others are lack luster for purples.
ADD-ON SUGGESTIONS ❤️
Tape editing deck - Bring passive condemn back on this addon to give survivors a reason to turn the tape in. Currently there is no threat for holding a cursed object. (bringing back tapes that passively condemn would be a great idea, it was a great idea to begin with.)
VCR - there should be similar animation like Freddy’s animation where Sadako is coming out of the TV so survivors think it’s her. It’s just an audio queue now and a small visual effect. Also, with survivors being able to see auras of televisions of any TV, this add-on will remain ineffective because they know exactly which she’s coming out of so there’s no tricking anybody with this add-on.
Telephone - this should be increased to 8.5 meters and from 3 seconds to 3.5.. The current range is so short, you could just lunge attack and hit someone. The slowdown is NOT enough to help you get the next hit or hinder them enough around the loop to potentially get ahead.
Distorted Photo - this could be useful if it was increased to 18 or 20 meters but the biggest issue is a survivor has to witness her manifesting which is frustrating because you have to count on survivors hearing her lullaby as a stealth killer to know you’re around, the two don’t go together.
Clump of hair should be basekit. (This would help her stealth due to her lullaby and because her invisibility is the same, as it is manifested, as it is de manifested, it should be harder to see her de manifested.)
Mother’s mirror OR Newspaper should be basekit. (To help her a little in loops)
Rickety Pinwheel/Seasoaked Cloth - Very neat idea! However, she gets punished hard for using these add-ons, because when she teleport it shut the TVs off, and the add-on is useless. I would suggest merging the two add-ons together or making it so the add-on stays on whether the TV is powered on or off. (You may have to make a different visual effect for this though from the static that usually surrounds the television)📺
Yoichi’s Fishing Net. Personally we don’t need 2 blindness addons. Fishing Net should go back to some form of Condemn Addon to give variety please. I loved loved the function of it before the tapes were reworked, I still deeply miss it.
Iri video tape - (Bring back OG video tape) If this isn’t an option that’s fine, but the version from PTB to hit live is not a great option especially if out of 4 of her purple addons are not effective as they should be for purples.
THE ONYRO CHANGES:
*Tapes aren’t a threat. Bring back passive condemn on tapes or at least for Tape Editing Deck.
*Remove Cooldown for Condemn. This is wild that this even exists. It kills the flow of her completely.
*Killer Interaction - tapes should take at least 2 seconds to put in.
*Remove Auras of TVS.
*locking condemn nerf was not necessary.
5 -
Power meter:
I genuinely do not understand the purpose of this change. The counterplay to condemned is both easier and stronger than ever before, so why should Sadako's power be nerfed to accommodate for people who refuse to interact with that counterplay? It's not the worst change in the world but it feels bad to punished for using your power.
Lock-in:
I liked its ptb state, it rewarded you for hooking and forced survivors to reduce their condemned earlier. However, I feel like the live state fails at everything it attempts to do. It doesn't incentivize Sadako to not tunnel, if you hook a survivor with 5 stacks you don't want them to be able to reduce their condemned so you just hook them again to lock them into 4 stacks. It doesn't disincentivize slugging either, locking in 2 stacks just isn't worth spending the time to hook and risking a flashlight save. If there is any change I'd like to see it'd be the removal of the lock-in cap.
Tapes:
There isn't any risk to taking a tape anymore so survivors can deny Sadako her teleports while also protecting themselves from condemned at no risk to themselves. She was on the weaker side during the ptb because of this and that is only compounded after the nerfs to her live state. I'd be fine with this if she was completely reverted to her ptb state but otherwise there should be some risk to taking a tape (maybe make current ring drawing basekit).
Iridescent video-tape:
It's not as strong as you'd hope an iri addon would be, it's a "meme addon" and it's rarity should reflect that. Sadako gives up the strongest part of her power for a slightly better version of the weaker half, that's punishment enough, so she shouldn't also strengthen the survivor counterplay.
Tape editing deck:
This addon is genuinely useless, survivors are not punished for holding tapes so all this addon does is make ring drawing slightly better, but survivors will be taking tapes anyways so it's not even worth running then. Its effect needs to be completely reworked.
VHS player:
Because survivors can see the aura of active TV's this addon cannot be used to fake out survivors. Its effect needs to be completely reworked.
5 -
I cant....
I cant defend this. I want to, but i cant.
She is horribly undertuned. The PTB version was fine. This is just plain bad. Using projection feels horrible. The game tells you that you can use it, but also tells you that you shouldnt. Its awful.
What NEEDS to happen in the update:
- Tape insertion takes 2 seconds
- NO cooldown on projection spreading condemned.
- Stack limit on hook needs to go entirely. Im not advocating tunneling. I try to advocate spreading hooks. Which this mechanic incentivised before it got gutted
- TV auras need to stay hidden.
This is the very least that HAS to happen to make her feel powerful and good to play. Your literally ruined this character.
10 -
Your write really fast...
100% agree, friend! This HAS to happen.
Please BHVR. Its not hard to make great things happen.
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I agree with you on pretty much all of this. I want to touch on a few points though.
Tape Editing Deck:
I will say that Tape Editing Deck add-on does have some uses to apply condemn early in the game. It is weak but not useless. It does help in the following ways:
- By forcing survivors to start with a tape, the first TV they turn off to perform the counterplay will cause them to gain 1 stack. This should net between 1-4 stacks of condemn early spread out between the survivors.
- If using the Ring Drawing add-on, the first hook will cause all other survivors to gain 1 stack. This will net an additional 3 stacks early on spread out among the survivors.
It definitely needs a buff as you can see but it does have potential for early game condemn pressure. I believe BHVR needs to make it so survivors carrying a tape cannot see TV auras as it would help address many of the current issues regarding her counterplay while still being fair to new players; if BHVR does do this, then Tape Editing Deck would also have additional uses and be more worthy of its purple rarity.
Iri-Videotape:
The add-on has potential if BHVR is willing to address the issues with it. I think the additional duration for TVs being off when a survivors takes a tape is fine. But this must come with some changes to stop survivors from abusing the new tape mechanics and TV auras. Removing the increased time for TVs to turn on after a survivor takes a tape does not solve any of its issues.
The main issue with it is that survivors can use the TV auras to rapidly disable her TVs without punishment due to the add-on making her have no condemn threat. Since there are no downsides to taking tapes, and the ability to easily tell where all her TVs are, survivors have a huge reward situation to take tapes and deny her power at essentially no risk.
I would suggest the following changes to Iri-tape to address this:
- The auras of all TV's are hidden from survivors, or the range is reduced to 8 meters.
- When survivors are carrying a VHS tape, they cannot interact with any TV other than their assigned tape drop off TV.
- When survivors are carrying a VHS tape, they cannot see the auras of TVs other than their assigned tape drop off TV.
By making it so survivors cannot see the auras of TVs with this add-on, they will have to spend at least a little effort to find the TV before they can work the gen. It also means that Sadako will be able to use her TVs as a chase tool again. The ability of survivors to have perfect aura reading on her TVs with this update makes teleporting in chase horribly weak. Since this is a mobility add-on I would like for them to change that for this add-on at least.
If survivors do have some TV aura reading, survivors must not be able to see the auras of TVs when holding a tape, otherwise they can just go from TV to TV turning them all off at no cost or risk. The easiest solution however is to make it so they simply cannot turn off or interact with any other TVs when carrying a tape. This would result in them having to do a tape run before they could turn off another TV, and as a result would slowdown survivors trying to abuse the add-on by disabling all her TVs across the map.
1 -
but then survivors would get punished for not playing around a killers power
0 -
Revert to PTB state, at absolute minimum. That's all I can really say here.
6 -
absolutely should be reverted back from the ptb
6 -
Please revert Sadako from before the ptb =/
3 -
I wrote all this while we were playing games earlier! 🤣🤣
Some of it, I copied and pasted! lol
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I agree. Reverting her back is the minimum. She needs all the help she can get.
6 -
Behavior please bring back OG VHS Tapes! It doesn’t even have to give them a stack of condemn when they pick it up but the passive condemn is a must! 😭😭
3 -
Honestly I would be perfectly fine if they changed her so condemn only spreads from the TV she Projects out of again and added ticking condemn back into the TV tapes. Might actually be a lot more fun and balanced when combined with the small buffs from 2.0 and 3.0 like faster TV cool-downs, a reward for hooking and the anti-stun while demanifested. Survivors don't have old Iri-tape or Ring Drawing slugs so I think it would be balanced.
I always thought with her original release version they just needed to reduce TV cool-downs or make Iri-tape part basekit, while giving an incentive to hook and she would be fine.
4 -
I've said it elsewhere but I want to make sure I share my thoughts here, as well.
All we need to do is go back to PTB.
SO much was good about the PTB, but it's now like (sorry I love food metaphors)... a delicious bowl of soup that is SO oversalted for no reason at all.
"Condemn spam" is just not a thing, even without a cooldown. Survivors can see their condemned go up, they can turn the TV off, or they can simply walk out of the (now visually depicted!) blast radius of the TV. They have around 5-6 seconds to do this, more than enough time. If survivors care to stop this condemned in any way... they can. The idea that we are teleporting to the "wrong" TVs is deeply confusing to me. By making condemned apply to all powered TVs... is that not... the purpose of that change? In what way are the TVs "wrong"?
The cooldown on condemned breaks her feel and sadly doesn't give her the pressure she needs.
Lock in limit is... interesting? It feels like we're kind of pretending Sadako is something she's not with this change. She does not have a strong chase power (something about which I have no complaints), but hooking less and focusing on TV management on either side is what makes the character unique. The expectation that we would ever hook someone twice to lock in 4 stacks of condemned is just... baffling to me.
That being said, if the limit was raised to 4 or 3, AT LEAST it would have the effect of increasing the regularity of tape runs. A little more slowdown, a little more time to engage in chases and get hooks.
These post-PTB changes completely defang her condemned. And like I said, her chase power is not strong enough to apply any meaningful pressure. "Map pressure" is fine and dandy if you have a way to guarantee hits or pallets fast enough, and Sadako does not have that in her kit.
This leaves Sadako with a familiar problem: slugging is BY FAR the most optimal way to play her once again. I am begging you BHVR, revert these changes or at least get us much closer to her PTB iteration, which felt like a nerf but a nerf I was DELIGHTED by. Survivors had clear straightforward counters, and the killer had a way to apply great pressure if they played well.
LOVE, April
8 -
I agree 💯!!
Thank you for your thoughts! I’ve been playing Onyro today. P100. Lost most matches. I have to slug 🐌 to stand and tunnel to stand a chance. It’s so awful
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on4 -
You killed her. She's legit unplayable now. Congratulations. Are you happy? All you had to do was keep PTB Sadako. But you didn't listen to the feedback of actual Sadako players at all, only to survivors who couldn't be bothered to engage with her counterplay.
9 -
Yeah. That's the point. If you can't be bothered to do the counterplay, you SHOULD be punished for it. Or do survivors just want free escapes?
Silly question. We all know they want free escapes.
6 -
PTB Sadako was still weak against any survivors that understood her counterplay. The post PTB nerfs were just the nail in the coffin. BHVR needs to address how disproportionate her counterplay is towards survivors. Right now they can turn off TVs to deny mobility while also protecting from condemn. Hold that tape as long as they like, and then insert it mid-chase with 1s insert times. Not to mention how skilled survivors can use the TV auras to ruin any sort of surprise teleports.
8 -
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE DEVS IN THE BACK
2 -
The changes we need are simple: Revert To PTB Onryo AND BUFF That Version. She needed BUFFS from the PTB not nerfs!
- No more cooldown for condemn
- Hidden TV auras, survivors can so easily avoid it with this on, it's almost impossible to spread it.
- Remove Hook Changes, Lock in was fine and incentivized hooking over slugging!
- Tape Times Back to 2 Seconds, even INCREASED to 2.5 seconds
- Please Change her Iri add on back to what the OG one was, the resetting TVs were on PAR For a pink addon! This new pink add on sucks...
- It took me all 5 gens to get ONE survivor Condemned with this new Onryo, and even then they still made it out the door because no Chase Power + No TVs near the gates = Free hold W to escape.
5 -
Legit.
4 -
As a Onryo main with still little experience, I can say that the PTB version was perfect. Gone was the Condemn spam (which I hated, because it was boring) - whith the changes bringing back a fun and finally balanced Killer.
This nerf was a backstab out of the blue. "Clever players could..." Clever players win because they are GOOD, both on the Killer and the Survivor side. "Clever" Survivors could counter the PTB Onryo just fine. It was a battle of wits and skill. I couldn't wait for the new chapter to drop... and then this happened.
"Incompetence" isn't a word that I use lightly. So, let's say that I would have liked to be present at the meeting when someone said "Hey, just EVERYONE says that the new Onryo is perfect! LET'S NERF HER!" And, which is even worse, the others agreed.
6 -
- I'm okay with the condemn cool-down. I think if it is what BHVR feels they need in order to reduce how strong her counterplay is for survivors, then that is an acceptable trade-off. It is quick enough that it isn't a huge issue unless you are really teleport spamming. The biggest issue with it was their justification for why they added it which showed a completely lack of understanding on BHVR's part in how survivors will approach her counterplay. BHVR must address the issues regarding her counterplay though, especially if they intend to keep changes like this in her kit.
- The TV auras must be addressed though. A good compromise is to hide TV auras aside from their target drop off TV when holding a tape. That way survivors can grab a tape to start the counterplay but once they enter chase with Sadako she has options to spread condemn.
- The Lock In hook change nerf was way too far. The cap needs to be at 4 stacks locked in per hook at the very least. Otherwise Onryo is better off slugging. Ideally remove the cap but if it is decided there needs to be a cap, it needs to be set high enough that Onryo can mori before 2 hooks or slugging becomes preferable.
- Tape times back to 2sec are a must imo. Specifically the insert speeds. If they want to have the tape grab duration be 1s its not as bad. But Inserting a tape in 1sec just allows survivors to wait till the last second and then insert it in your face. 2.5s I think is too long though.
- I would be fine with the OG Iri-tape coming back. It would give Onryo a way to counter survivors trying to turn off her TVs as she would have some control over when to turn them back on. If not the OG Iri-tape they need to make the changes that I proposed in my main comment above. Mainly that when running the add-on, survivors wh are carrying a tape cannot see TV auras other than their target drop off TV and not interact with TVs other than their target drop off TV. Otherwise the add-on can easily be abused by survivors to leave her powerless.
0 -
Sorry BHVR disagrees
Now let's work on getting hook states and bleedout timer removed too. Consistency is important.
1 -
I think the main issue people have is that having the cooldown just Isn't Fun With Onryo, it felt SO NICE to have it gone, and now it's back.
If you do spam TPs, they are at least on Cooldown for a while and that more than balanced it out imo.
3 -
What I really don't understand is that everyone was happy with the Onryo as she was in the PTB. We can debate about details for hours and walls of text, but it was that simple: "We are happy". Apparently, this is not what BHVR wants to hear. I don't have any other explanation.
6 -
I think having Yoichis Fishing Net add 3 Meters to the TV Condem Spread would make it more on par with what it used to be, or perhaps have it add passive condemn to tapes very slowly.
I think there needs to be more Condem Add ons since they are really fun to use gameplay wise!
3 -
All I wanted was OG sadako. As she was. All tvs condemn instead of the one. 🤷🏼♂️
(The no stun on demanifest is nice)
and obviously a proper add on pass.
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Also, a bigger TV Remote radius.
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The really sad part about these changes, is that they are probably going to be reverted to what it was on the PTB but wont receive any of the actual changes people wanted, especially if they thought she was OP on the PTB. I looked through that thread many times, and nearly everyone was asking for some slight buffs (I.e. 1 second insertion being super unfair and unfun as you watch all your work go away in a minimal effort counter).
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I just don't know why this happened...
They painted a beautiful painting, just to ruin it a few days later.
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I agree 💯 I miss so much the old Yoichis fishing net.
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Will you listen to it tho?
Cuz you certainly didn't during the PTB
Post edited by SoGo on6 -
Nearly so bad I'd ask for a refund because of how BAD you made her.
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Lot of people saying here she was fine on PTB but I will go and say she felt weak allready on PTB so yea...
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You might need a megaphone for that...
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Overall, I would like to just post my Ptb feedback again, because it still holds up. Nothing changed in terms of aspects that need to be buffed or changed.
The things that need to change now on top of that is the work created by the unnecessary post Ptb changes. The cooldown needs to go and the amount of stacks should not be maxed by two perk hook. These nerfs make her unfun to play, clunky, a LOT weaker against better groups and really unhealthy again because slugging is again better that hooking.
The lock on NEEDED to be strong to outclass slugging. This is called incentivising healthy gameplay. It was great on the Ptb.
If possible, I would just love to post my Ptb post again. (I should just copy them into my pc documents at this point)
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She was good. Not really strong but good. We all suggested BUFFS on the Ptb to make her feel stronger.
It's the cumulation of none of the buffs happening and unnecessary nerfs being implemented that make her feel horribly undertuned right now.
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