Is tunneling killing the game?

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135

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  • Frizouw
    Frizouw Member Posts: 96
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    The rewards system is not rewarding enough for good plays.

  • StalkingYou
    StalkingYou Member Posts: 37
    edited February 3
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    "an incentive would only work if the problem is also nerfed heavily"

    which is exactly what needs to happen, make insanely good incentive for not tunneling and punish those who do

    just because its probably not going to happen because the devs dont understand their game doesn't mean it wouldn't fix the problem

    literally just give some decent at least gen regression/blockage/slowdown when mixing hooks and you have your incentive which would work well

    but, if you dont agree with me, that's fine, I dont really feel like arguing with another internet stranger right now

  • concubined
    concubined Member Posts: 140
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    Fun is very very subjective and the killer can find tunneling fun, the tunneled survivor might appreciate the chases, the rest of the team might be thankful for the time they can spend on gens unbothered. Tunneling is a strategy and me personally (I can only speak for myself) I NEVER do it with the intention to ruin a survivor’s fun but only to win. Yes I tunnel at 5 gens, no I don’t think morality should be brought into a video game specially an asymmetrical horror game such as this. Realistically a serial killer under the same conditions would tunnel if his or her end goal is to capture all 4 humans. You have a wonderful day

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,215
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    While I'm personally fine with tunneling because chases are fun, I believe tunneling should receive a nerf if we're going to keep an MMR system in the game, why reward bad players on either side? The game could more accurately matchmake if tunneling were nerfed and then people would stop crying they're outmatched at high ranks, not everyone is the best killer in the world so why offer a cheap strategy to catapult bad players to higher ranks who in turn come here crying because they can't pull it off with 100 percent accuracy like they could before? "Gens go too fast!" Yea when you focus the same survivor for more than a few minutes instead of prioritizing gens that tends to happen

  • Unam
    Unam Member Posts: 118
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    Simple solution to tunneling:

    Make not tunneling more rewarding than tunneling.

    Right now, there is Grim Embrace and DMS, even with nerfed stbfl Killers are going out of their way to hook 4 individual survivors and purposefully ignore the obsession.

    Yet countless thread about how unbalanced and unfair those perks are.

    So you dont tunnel and survivors dont like it, you tunnel they dont like it either...


    You can nerf and punish tunneling all you want, there is simply not a single strategy in the game that is more efficient than getting one person out asap and robbing the survs of 25% efficiency across the board.

    People will always play versus games competitively. Even goofy and silly games like fall guys get completely min/maxed.

    Its human nature that ppl want to win.


    Encourage not tunneling. Basekit grim embrace, 10% repair debuff if 4 survs are 1 hooked, whatever.

    Nerfing tunneling or implementing basekit bandaid "anti tunneling" buffs for survivors wont change anything.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,215
    edited February 3
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    Nerfing tunneling while not offering survivors anything additional will absolutely change it (as long as BHVR doesn't do the stuff theyre known for and give survivors something that breaks the game.) if you punish players for those strategies then the players who are using actual skill to win stand out more, kind of like in today's dbd if you can hold a long chase you're a good survivor because tiles have been nerfed and pallets removed over the years so the better players stand out more than they used to and the same needs to happen for the killer role so matchmaking works just a little more accurate than it does now (I'm aware there's no way to have perfect matchmaking), people are always complaining about survivors but at this point in the game it's a skill issue more than a balance issue , those people complaining don't belong in the lobbies they're getting thrown in and tunneling is the big elephant in the room everyone is trying to ignore so they feel better about themselves and can say they're "good at the game".

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,378
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    I don't disagree with BHVR's stance of removing BP bonuses from perks. But the WGLF and BBQ bonuses should have always just been made base kit and not tied to the perk(s) since that nerf.

    I also think this is one of the few 'base kit' mechanics they really should add and doing so really shouldn't be controversial in any way.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,227
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    But it is useful to have those bonuses tied to perks.

    A killer using BBQ = One less gen regression / blocking perk.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,378
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    Maybe, but it's been BHVR's stance to systematically remove those BP bonuses tied to perks.

    Since I can't change their minds on that, I'd rather have the bonus base kit than literally not at all. Especially for BBQ.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,130
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    No, its the same as its always been. People have been saying your exact words for years.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,227
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    Since I can't change their minds on that

    All we can do is offer feedback, but I'd say it is worth the shot. It is never too late to revert things.

  • RealLifeTrapper
    RealLifeTrapper Member Posts: 18
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    This actually should really be one of the main discussions to look at because they can still face camp you, then you can jump off the hook right infront of them because they just sat there and camped you the whole time for the yellow bar to go up entirely, then they proceed to not target anyone else just to continue to tunnel and kill you. Idk for me you can actually respect the killer when they choose to go after someone else, even when they see you. Alot of people are so toxic with it too because nothing has been done about it yet. It's honestly sad to see them just stand there the whole time, like they don't know how to multitask and get a sense of accomplishment from it. Couldn't be me.

  • Ariel_Starshine
    Ariel_Starshine Member Posts: 937
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    I don't have access to the statistics of the game, but I can say all my friends (and I've a lot of them) have quit and not come back due to tunneling and slugging.

    They felt frustrated and aggravated, along with the fact that their mental health isn't worth the game. The ones that tried to stay said they stayed only to play with me. Eventually they just stopped.

    Take that as you will :)

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,662
    edited February 4
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    Us vs Them isn't a good look anymore; it's not 2017 and you're not a poor Killer main victim.


    Both sides are horrible to each other at times. This creates a vicious cycle where one side takes out their frustrations on a completely uninvolved player(s), which then causes those players to do the same.

    Instead of blaming only Survivors, it would be more wise to call out all toxic behavior.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,662
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    In a game decided by seconds, Deadlock certainly matters.


    Likewise, you said, "To punish a killer for tunneling would be like punishing survivors for doing too many gens at once," which I found curious since that already exists in Deadlock and it doesn't even punish multiple gen pops or slamming the objective. It actually punishes you for doing it at all, which is curiously similar to another perk from the past.

  • MrDrMedicman
    MrDrMedicman Member Posts: 303
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    Tunneling isn't the root cause, it's a visible symptom of a few different issues working in tandem.

    The sbmm and mmr systems are terrible. They catapult killers with weaker or non existent skills into high mmr swf and cheaters because it starts them out on a bunch of low mmr solo q and the killer stomps them.

    In high mmr, where survivors actually know what they're doing, the killers, who shouldn't be there, get stomped right back into low mmr where the cycle repeats

    Eventually the killer figures out a 3v1 is easier to manage than a 4v1 and starts tunnelling out in high mmr, with zero feedback for when they go back to low mmr

    Bhvr has only made this worse by nerfing every play style for both teams outside of gen rush for survivors and tunneling for killers. Which is a testament to how much they nerf because tunnelling is mechanically the most difficult it's ever been (anti face camp and bt basekit).

    Tldr: bhvr needs to stop nerfing everything and start rolling out buffs for both sides

  • Nick
    Nick Member Posts: 1,222
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    That "tunneling at 5 gens" always makes me wonder when, according to you, someone is allowed to "tunnel". You are probably going to say 1 generator or 2 generators left. But by that time you already lost as killer. You will be chasing someone, 4 people alive, one gen gets stacked, other solo. You're already cooked

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,227
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    Dont forget that "at 5 gens left" could mean anything inbetween 0 and 396 charges repaired.

    It's like saying dont start repairing at 0 hooks.

    "Dont tunnel at 5gens left" is valid but "dont repair/genrush at 0hooks" is ridiculous, right? Btw thats totally one of the survivor biases this community has.

  • Shuma
    Shuma Member Posts: 54
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    A non-tunneling game is fun for survivors.

    Tunneling at 5 gens, isn’t even a game for survivors.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,662
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    I see fairly constant threads about gen rushing, so yes, that does seem to be a constant standard.

  • MrDrMedicman
    MrDrMedicman Member Posts: 303
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    Have you read the threads? The responses are always "what else are we supposed to do?"

    15-20 replies excusing it every time

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,903
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    And yet the game is still here going strong.

    "Tunneling" didn't kill the game before and won't kill it now.

    Maybe its the smaller maps but I remember a time when I could walk more than 2 steps away from a hook before some survivor rushed in to make a save.

    Maybe built in BT just makes people think that unsafe unhooks are the norm?

    Do players just double down on the ol "survivor rule book" and expect a killer to only chase the rescuers even when practical logic says it's the worse of 2 choices. I don't know but I feel like pre MMR days players just more commonly made better decisions than they do now.

    I don't find as survivor that I get "tunneled" or "camped" that often but I also try to make smart choices that don't give the killer the opportunity to do so.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,662
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    And I see the same responses in threads about tunneling.

    I'm sorry but you can't spin this particular point your way.

  • 09SHARKBOSS
    09SHARKBOSS Member Posts: 1,157
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    dude as a killer main i am very sorry about that and i hope to have a game against you so i can show you we are not all like that

    also good ideas for the changes but i got another one add a competitive gamemode that gives more bp and a casual one that gives less

  • Stroggz
    Stroggz Member Posts: 498
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    Its like... don't finish the gen, let me hook everybody 1-2 times before you can continue, otherwise you are a bully. Stop tunneling them gens when there is zero hooks! \o\

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,962
    edited February 5
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    I played 3 games as survivor yesterday, i didnt touch a single gen i 2 of them, because i got tunnled the whole game.

    I know, im a former killer main, thats not what im talking about, im talking about the killer finds you at 5 gens, and every time you get unhooked (not in their face) they leave their current chase (if they are in one) to return to you.

    I even tried when i was on death hook, and no one else were hooked to hide, and as soon as the killer saw me they returned to me, the other team memebers even tried to offer them self as a new target but she (plague) would have none of it.

    This was the reason i only played 3 games, where i normally would have played more (and i know im not the only one)... so no matter what you say, this is defo. hurting the player base.

  • Snowbawlzzz
    Snowbawlzzz Member Posts: 1,419
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    Just make the killer a bot

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,903
    edited February 5
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    In that case you are the chase guy and your goal is to out play the killer and sink as much time as possible.

    There are some great examples of chase builds that can make you hard to track and heal up quickly meaning if played well you can escape from chase with some regularity.

    I’ve always been of the mindset that if I have several games where the same thing happens I build to avoid that thing for a few games and it typically works.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,214
    edited February 5
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    Why the next match? You could tunnel right then, because you just got your first hook. Its not that you choose to not tunnel that match, you just failed. Next match might just be the same. Sure, if you then get your first hook at no gens done and you tunnel, there is no reason you wouldnt have done it in the other match if you had got that first hook earlier.

    I for one think of taking off a month from playing survivor. Maybe i keep playing as killer. If enough players think like me, it might send a message.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,903
    edited February 5
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    I wouldn’t call it proxy camping per se when survivors don’t even give you the chance to leave the hook.

    You’d think it’d go the other way with smaller maps, you don’t need to rush the hook as you don’t have to run that far to save.

    Whatever it is though I feel like the impatience level is much higher than it used to be and that leads to bad decisions on both sides.

    I can’t really blame an opponent for leveraging my bad decision to their advantage. Even if it means I or a team mate are eliminated early, I mean that’s the killer goal after all.

    I’m not saying all “tunneling” etc is the fault of survivors but I can identify the opportunity to apply it as a tactic effectively and the situation to do so arises far more frequently lately than my previous game experience.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,662
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    I think it's more that Survivors have learned to not allow the Killer time to position themselves properly.

    Better to rush in than to allow the Killer to camp multiple objectives. If they don't give you time to identify that, then it's better for them.

  • Brimp
    Brimp Member Posts: 2,788
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    I play in according to what the survivors are like at the time I play. If I get multiple squads that just hold main buildings with map offerings then I will play accordingly.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,962
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    Well, i recently got bashed on this forum for using Distortion and Calm Spirit - It was unfair for the team, and i was pushing chases on them.

    Im open to suggestions if you have any specific perk suggestions.

  • MrDrMedicman
    MrDrMedicman Member Posts: 303
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    I get salt for playing an m1 killer with no perks/add-ons, no tunneling, and giving survivors an "extra hook" with slugs. Play your way because both sides have gotten toxic about it

  • scoser
    scoser Member Posts: 452
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    I know I hop in only to do my dailies and then immediately quit for the day for the most part. Either it's the SBMM system dealing out the most unbalanced games of all time or toxic players in my games (on both sides), neither of which are worth dealing with when I can be playing other games.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,903
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    maybe, but being eliminated early is a big cost if that tactic doesn't pay off.