The Onryo Feedback
Comments
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I was trying to privately write you, but it won’t let me. What’s your prestige on sadako?
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If you’re referring to me then my prestige number on sadako is p100
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Very neat! 😊 📺 me too!
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Very Neato
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Just wanted to put this here.
She can build condemn fine right now, that is not the issue. The issue is they can remove it faster than she can gain it, against good teams.
I had a match where one survivor grabbed a tape the second the TVs turned on, they ran to 3 others, to turn them off, and put their tape away for a net ZERO condemned gain and 5/7 of my power off for 70 seconds.
Survivors shouldn't see TV auras for this exact reason, ON TOP of not being able to condemn in chase anymore since they just run away from the TVs.
2 Second tape interaction makes it so they can't just do stuff in your face. (Perhaps a solution to this is, the longer you hold onto the tape, the longer it takes to put the tape away, to make it REALLY risky to hold onto the tape without making condemn t0o much more powerful).
Other than that I think a small passive condemn after a certain point is a good idea. Because most people just grab Tapes at the start of the gen, and then you have no way to give condemn, perhaps that 70 second period gives 1 to 2 stacks of passive condemn, as opposed to keeping the TV on and possibly gaining all 7 stacks of condemn.
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After all the changes, I think Onryo is almost in the right place, the only thing that needs some touch ups is her stealth, it's currently non existent.
What I suggesst to make her stealth better is the following:
- Her Lullaby range is half her Terror Radius range (12 metres in this case, so she can at least have some kind of upper hand in stealth a bit, rework Clump of Hair)
- Keep her Undetectable Status Effect for the duration of the speed boost after TV teleport.
I think her stealth would be much better with these changes!
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I agree on this 💯 Ive been saying this for a looooooong time.
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Just want to say I think this version of her you guys have created is close to perfect if not perfect.
The feel of actively applying condemned and actively locking in condemned is a MASSIVE improvement on her last version, and you guys backed away from hindering her potential which I'm so grateful for.
You should consider the Billy rework + the Sadako rework as the gold standard for reworks and killer powers in general. FUN to use, fun to counter, unique from other killers, and with plenty of agency in the killer player's hands to play as they see fit.
Incredible job!
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I agree with this 💯 🥰!
Few small tweaks would take this good standard to Premium!
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After doing even more testing, I have come to this conclusion. If we are going to Keep TV auras and 1s tape insertion, the ability to turn off additional TVs needs to be removed, because being able to turn of 5 TVs with one run is dumb. Also don't turn of the TV you put the tape into (Target TV). I get taking it out, but putting it in doesn't make much sense for a 70 second cooldown.
If all of this isn't happening then I think the Survivors turning off the TVs need to be shorter, because they can just do the gen in that 70 second period next to them, and we have no way to apply any slowdown to them/ condemn stacks. Just grab the tape, and then no mobility, no condemn, (basically her whole power is gone).
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i think she's kinda okay but its hard to deal with everyone insta-grabbing tapes
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She does feel nicer to play as and against after the last update so kudos to BHVR for trying, there’s still a few changes i’d suggest making :
Her chase is still weak, especially on maps like Eyrie, Garden, The Game etc where you just have to eat pallets. I would love to see her phase through dropped pallets / breakable walls, as well as further increase her passive phasing to help her mind game safer tiles or at least buff Reiko’s Watch again so we can choose to use chase add ons. Adding Old Newspaper into her basekit would also be a really nice QOL change, instead I would make Old Newspaper the current Iri Tape and grant extra BP.
Tapes - i’ve seen so many survivors turn off all the TVS to get themselves condemned then put the tape away in my face because the 1 second animation is so short. You’re pretty powerless in these situations and even if you do hook them there’s essentially no / little stacks of condemned to lock in. I’d revert the tape animation back to 2 seconds and bring back passive condemned for holding tapes. The TV auras are also unnecessary as long as you can see the TV you need to turn off.
Add ons - Iri tape feels next to useless, you’re essentially removing her strongest aspect (condemned) without much reward, especially as survivors can still turn off your TVs. This add on could easily be a brown add on for extra BP! I would revert Iri tape to the first version (that turns TVs back on) but possibly reduce the amount of TVs that turn on to make it fairer.
Visual heartbeat - this really hurts her demanifested / undetectable state. I do love the lullaby as it fits well for her character, perhaps a better change would be to make it map wide when she’s demanifested (like Chucky) so you never know where she might appear, or reduce the range of the lullaby.
Overall I appreciate BHVR for listening to the last round of feedback and hoping they add a few more tweaks to make her perfect!
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I think Sadako's bugged version of ring drawing (Spread Condemned when hooked + healing) should be the iri or purple add on ngl. Iri video tape effect is too weak to justify the iri status.
I was able to get a few games with Sadako and I'm still trying to figure out the optimal build on her. Telephone addon doesn't seem to be doing much in terms of mindgames around pallets. Locked Condemned cap isn't threatening enough unless I tunnel said Survivor so they don't have time to do tapes but I might as well use Pinhead with Original Pain if I wanted to tunnel off hook.
The previous Condemned build that I ran (Nemesis/Game Afoot, PWYF, Corrupt, Deadlock) probably won't be as effective as before since tapes can't be destroyed upon hit. I still think some she needs a bit more buffs like removing tv auras from Survivor/2 second insert time/Debuffs from holding the tape to hit the sweet spot.
I'll keep experimenting tho. It's a shame Sadako is terrible at pipping given how Condemn is designed to bypass hook stages
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If we are going to Keep TV auras and 1s tape insertion, the ability to turn off additional TVs needs to be removed
Completely agree. All 3 of these things cannot stay together. They just make her counterplay to strong and easy for survivors compared to how much harder it is to build condemn now. Survivors can just deny mobility, deny condemn, and have wall-hack info on you teleporting around them. Even if they do have condemn, they can remove it in your face mid-chase easily. Something has to change.
I've said it a bunch here but the best solution is to just hide the white TV auras from survivors carrying a tape; this would make it so survivors can easily find and turn off the first TV, without giving all the extra TV info to experienced survivors who can flawlessly do the counterplay. Such an obvious solution that helps her against strong swf doing the easy counterplay, without punishing new players and soloq.
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So breakdown in a nutshell Behaviour to keep it brief.
Excellent rework/fix! - However there’s still a few issues. Biggest issue being Survivors shutting off TVs asap denying condemn and mobility.
*Tape insertion of 1 second is too short.
*TVs are getting turned off too quickly without much punishment so no condemn, no mobility either.
*If survivors hold onto a tape after a while, it needs to passively condemn them. This is a big issue. Survivors are hoarding tapes. (If you wanna keep 1 second insert that’s fine but this option would be perfect! 🤩)
ADD-ONS BELOW 👇
*Iri addon videotape - too much risk, not enough reward.
*Yoichis fishing net should be a condemn addon again. Ring drawing is the only direct condemn addon…we have no variety at all for condemn and it’s really sad. I don’t wanna have to be forced to use 1 singular add on)
*Rickety pinwheel, seasoaked your punished for using these addons.
*VCR is useless due to auras on TVs.
*We have 2 blindness addons, why 😭mothers mirror should be Basekit, it’s not worth using by itself.
*Well water should be buffed to 2.5 or 3. It’s pretty weak for a green. (They hear the audio cue of you coming anyways. So ineffective)
*Tape editing decks functionality was best on OG sadako. Currently is meh for purple…😭
*Well Stone - 7 seconds out of 70 from a survivor. I get its yellow but….ew.
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Iri Tape with what it does for being a pink add on is INSANE.
Look at plagues Brown Meme add on. You can't puke on survivors but you get another somewhat strong effect. THIS IS BROWN.
At most the iri tape ability should be a brown add on for the memes.
Why is a meme add on taking up an Iri slot?
Also small plead. Please bring Reiko's Watch back to 50%
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I also agree. Iri addons typically change killer gameplay in a very significant way, but they also should be OBJECTIVELY GOOD.
The way it is now with TV auras visible, easy to shut off, and easy to return tapes, this is no good. It's easy to just disable her power, and with the current iri addon that means when a survivor shuts off a TV it's gone for 84 seconds. 84 seconds!
If you don't plan on fixing this issue where survivors can counter Sadako's power too easily, then this addon at least needs a change in the other direction. Make the TVs that are shutoff come back 20% sooner.
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Oh also her is a match as Survivor this time showing why she is so easy to counter now. https://youtu.be/UCm3c5d2tL8
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The way it is now with TV auras visible, easy to shut off, and easy to return tapes, this is no good. It's easy to just disable her power, and with the current iri addon that means when a survivor shuts off a TV it's gone for 84 seconds. 84 seconds!
If you don't plan on fixing this issue where survivors can counter Sadako's power too easily, then this addon at least needs a change in the other direction. Make the TVs that are shutoff come back 20% sooner.
Completely agree with you. BHVR should absolutely fix this by hiding TV auras with the add-on. There is no threat of condemn so they really don't need the TV auras. But if BHVR doesn't want to fix this in a smart way, they 100% need to have the TVs come back 100% sooner rather than it be a debuff as you suggested.
Iri-tape is actually a great add-on for the most part which provides a fun way to augment her power. A lot of Onryo mains just seem to be sleeping on it since it removes any condemn threat and they are less interested in the mobility aspect of her kit. The only issue is that a smart and skilled team can easily abuse you running this add-on to completely deny your power as mentioned.
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I think it's a great fun add on! But it should be the meme tier add on and be brown. I want a powerful pink add on that's worth farming.
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Referring specifically to Feb-9-2024 Killer Updates:
The buffs to Projection movement speed duration, and Manifestation movement speed buff to 4ms both feel incredibly freeing and open up Onryo's chase power for mindgames and using her blinking visibility. Prior to this, losing distance on survivors while manifesting felt like such a detriment, it was something to avoid to enable a passable chase.
As Onryo is a killer who skips hooks (like Pig), I would understand if a nerf was needed due to kill rates. BUT, if that happens, I think working around her condemned (such as Condemned radius nerfs, TV deactivation times tweaked) would be preferable.
Keep the Movement speed changes from that update, Lunging out of TV's is way to fun.
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Please Behavior, with 5 killer tweaks coming up and a whole new Chapter on top of that, please give Onryo some final touches. I don't want her to get forgotten and this week is probably the last chance we will get to fix her up since the PTB is next week.
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me and my friends played against 2 onryo’s last night and we just ran around with tapes while she was in chase turning off her TVs and there was nothing she could do. her counterplay is wayyyy to easy with the tv auras visible and the 1 second tape animation.
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What's the point of Tape Editing Deck spawning everyone with a tape when they don't build passive Condemn anymore? Even her add on designs require passive condemn to be useful!
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This addon was already bad in her last version, but at least it gave you 2 stacks by hitting someone. Now it’s useless.
I hope we get passive condemned for holding tapes back or when holding a tape you get 50% more condemned.
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Also the iri video tape that removes condem, it so useless! She needs add ons adjustment too
I dont understand how they arent thinking of it
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Praying on a patch tomorrow with the new Valentine Skins, if there isn't one, then we prob aren't getting anything for years. Cause a HUGE ptb is coming the following Tuesday.
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I agree completely
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Looks like Onryo won‘t get any additional changes.😔
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I guess not 😞 even tho survivors counter her so easily with shutting TVs off. I made a whole video on it too. To display what high MMR survivors do with onyro.
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Yeah I made several videos and we've had people leave over 300 messages of Feedback for her, but nothing mattered, they just didn't listen.
As much as I am excited for this new killer coming up, I just know Onryo will be left forgotten and Unrefined just like they did with Trickster.
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I would agree. Several pages here. Polls, another thread with multiple pages…I just don’t get it. Why not finish what you started… why stop when you’re almost done?
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):
Post edited by CammyChameleon on1 -
Can you make this a feature please?😂😂😂
Can you make ring drawing purple and leave the healing effect like it is now?
Post edited by jonifire on1 -
Thank you for the feedback everyone! We'll be unpinning this thread now, but please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts in this section of the forums.
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Hi Peanits, can you confirm if Sadako is done for updates for now or are there more to come? Thanks.
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Hi peanuts, can you say; what the kill rate of Sadako after her rework is?
Post edited by jonifire on1 -
i think it is fair to say that her kill-rate is likely one of main reasons for her negative changes.
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Yeah. Back in the PTB I had mentioned to everyone that I thought the whole point of the rework was to make it easier for lower MMR survivors to do the condemned counterplay, because I thought it was too difficult for them. And that the primary goal of the rework had absolutely nothing to do with Sadako mains.
And surprise, today we learned her kill rate was out of control, when we look at the full range of survivors......
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I don‘t understand why they even reworked her in the first place. Her OG version was fine. They only needed to buff it.
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I believe one of the reasons that they changed her was to discourage killer to slug and something else. Something to do with unfun play-styles. She's going have freddy kill-rate now.
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She is so incredible bad against good players now. I have the same complains, I had after the last rework, that this global/all Tv condemned makes survivors turn off all TVs near them and now there is no risk, nothing.
- Tv auras!: Survivors don‘t waste any time finding them. They run around and abuse it to turn every TV off. Then on bigger maps I have no power for the whole game. Her teleport is also mostly useless, because they see where I teleport, be it when they sit on a gen or when I chase them-> they just turn around and run in a different direction as soon as the aura disappears. The sound was enough to know where or when I teleport.
- Tapes: There has to be some downside like passive condemned. It doesn‘t has to be much, but something. Every survivor grabs one and I can‘t do anything. They just sit on a gen. No teleport, no condemned, complete immunity. This will get even worse when people adapt. I already feel the difference how survivors played one week ago.
- Why can survivors turn TVs off for one stack condemned? They just run around and turn 5 TVs off. 1.Take tape; 2./3./4. Take one stack condemned; 5. deliver tape-> 0stacks again.
Now she is only a noob stomper and you can‘t do much against good survivors. I don‘t even want to condemned people, but all you did was weaken her chase by a lot, which I liked the most, with the introduction of TV auras.
I don‘t understand why you reworked her in the first place. Her OG version was so good and you only needed to give it the buffs you gave her over the last 2 reworks (cooldowns; demanifest/manifest speed/invisibility; speed boost; condemned lock….). The concept of tapes was great back then, because you had your TVs always available and if someone wanted to sit in peace on a gen, he had to take a tape, which gave him condemned. The one TV condemned was also better, because it wasn‘t too overwhelming for new players and it required skill to condemned someone and rarely someone got condemned by the tapes.
Please fix 1 and 2, which also fixes 3 a bit.
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Most people I played against didn‘t even play her that way back then. Most just played her as a mobility killer like me.
If they wanted to change something, they only needed to give her the buffs she got until now and make her condemned a bit easier.
Do you mean with Freddy kill-rate, that it will still be high, because most people don‘t know what to do?
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Why doesn‘t this discussion appear on top of all others, after someone wrote something in here?
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weak killer with high kill-rate.
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can we please get some insight on whether or not they are going to finish tweaking her? Against good and high MMR survivors, she struggles terribly.
The counter play for survivors is way too easy, multiple survivors, turn off televisions, leaving her no mobility, they still put tapes in faster than lightning. ⚡️ ultimately last, but not least there’s no consequence for holding the tape.
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There is a pretty silly strat that works if 2+ people don't grab a tape instantly. You can spam teleport to tv's and they will never get a chance to even grab a tape to remove their condemn. Then hit them endgame with noed + nwo or use some chase perks to kill someone early while everyones focused on removing their condemn when you finally stop blocking tvs.
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This discussion is still bugged.
Post edited by jonifire on0 -
The curse is less tantalizing than the earlier "Onryo" because there are no disadvantages to the survivors having the videotape.
I would like to see the videotape specifications changed to what they were in the early "Onryo" or the "Ring Drawing" changes restored.
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