What are thoughts on Maps currently?
Too strong / safe? Too many deadzones? Too contingent on luck / RNG?
Comments
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The game
the fact that this map hasnt been bala ced for years is just sad
everybody names this map „palett paradies“ and the devs dont do anything about balancing it in a fair way
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I don't like any of the reworked maps.
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the fact that maps can be so drastically different is sad
like preschool and the game vs rancid abbaitor that consistently spawns only 9 pallets
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This.
Ideally killers want maps to be flat fields with little to no pallets or windows.
As a result, balancing maps for killers involves removing any flavor or substance to maps. And it makes the game feel even more samey and boring.
The only good rework they've done is Azarov's.
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All reworked maps and new maps we got lately are terrible bad.
BHVR is new design for maps: Big dead zones, filler pallets which guaranteed hits, garbage loops and gens are so closer to each other.
Yeah i am not fan of this.
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Depends on the map.
The disparity between something like Garden of Pain and Rotten Fields is almost as big as the disparity between Nurse and Trapper.
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I think Garden of Joy should get an actual gameplay pass.
I genuinely don't know what they did when they "looked at it". The main building is still an infinite with a god pallet next to it and there's completely safe pallets within strolling distance of each other. Did they even touch the map at all?
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Some are good, some are bad. I think nostromo wreckage and the new map that is coming seem to be in a good spot to me. Garden of Joy is still an outlier.
The most problematic map in the game for me, is still the Gideon meat plant. Either unfairly great for killer or unfairly good for survivor. The loop design on this map together with its layout don't leave anything in between. This map needs serious attention and im suprised that it's not a usual but rather rare topic of discussion.
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My biggest problem with recent maps is that they feel terribly unoptimized and make my console chug. Nostromo feels unplayable half the time.
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Remember when they "reworked" the Red Forest maps and instead of changing anything that was actually problematic with them, they just added a hundred clutter objects to make them even worse...
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Nostromo and Greenville Square are full of weak loops and unsafe pallets. What makes those good spots? I’m just curious.
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A lot of them just feel too safe. The fact that mostly every reworked year 7 map is still just horrible to play as killer...
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Also tons of random junk/objects/obstacles that make things just as bad (in some cases worse than they were) for most killers. New maps look good, but are very cluttered, and not in a way that is useful to anyone. Red Forest/Mother's Dwelling is a great example of this; visually amazing, but functionally a cluttered mess. Hate it as killer, love it as survivor.
In general, map balance is the biggest problem in the DBD. By that I mean there is barely any map balance, and I'm not sure there is a solution at this point.
The GoJ rework was funny because they gave it a pass and barely touched the biggest issue. You can absolutely abuse killers with that dining room window loop, and I figured that would be the first thing they addressed.
Other maps are imbalanced but in a way that feels appropriate (imo), like Haddonfield. You have huge dead zones (street) and extremely strong loops (the houses). I think if every map had loops evenly distributed around the map, it'd be boring as hell.
But like all things there are limits, and maps like GoJ cross them.
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Everyone is saying Greenville's pallet loops are weak but I'm curious how effective it is to chain them together since there seems to be so many of them.
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Both are pretty big with lots of loops and gens on the outskirts. That delays most killers a lot and helps survivors a lot that spread out. Also, i saw a lot of good pallets on Greenville square. The main building can rotate, offering a really strong pallet that can lean to the building. Otherwise, there is a shack. Thats what i consider not only a strong tile, but a completely unfair one for every m1 oriented killer.
Most of the tiles are pretty fair to play as m1, which is what i like to see. Seems like a good map to me. Sorry, if you disagree, but that has been my experience on the ptb.
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Subpar. The tiles can’t be chained efficiently because they’re impeded by obstacles. But even so they’re very short so chaining isn’t really worth while. I think this map is meant to encourage hiding or a more reserved playstyle, it seems better for that. It has a shack similar to GoJ’s though, I think it always spawns in like a remote corner.
You’re right, it’s large. But the tiles are weak; the pallets are unsafe. And while I like the pallet in main (in the theater, you mean?) it’s also weak. You can’t even escape the room if the killer breaks it and you’re closest to the screen before the killer catches up with you. Gods forbid you face a projectile killer because it’s over. I agree about shack but I think all but 2 maps have a shack. The ones that don’t (Lery’s and Gideon) compensate in other ways. Greenville has a lot of good hiding spots and decent LoS blockers in the woods that could help throw a killer off. But this isn’t a balanced map, it’s killer-sided and that’s OK.
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They made Shelter Woods better but somehow made Abattoir the new Shelter Woods.
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Indoor maps don't have shack. Gideon, Lery's, RPD, Midwich, Hawkins.
Of the outdoor maps, Haddonfield and Nostromo don't have shacks.
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Dissapointed that we dont really have enough loops that are interesting. It's just the same 3 buildings copy pasted, and when we do get loops that are more skill-expresive and use changes of elevation really interestingly, they are massively killer favoured (hawkins).
Also, it is so anoying that the game is won or lost because you loaded on a map that massively favours the other side you're playing against, loading in the game as an m1 killer or loading in midwitch against an m2 killer with a decent chase power can often times feel hopeless.
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Garden of Joy, Shattered Square, Nostromo Wreckage(the outside parts)
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Ugh the deadzones. I also had a Yamaoka map last week where the exit gates were pretty much right next to each other. I don't think I've seen exit gates spawn that close before in the years I've been playing. And it was against a Wesker. I just gave myself up to him because it was 100% impossible to open one.
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I think maps are the part of the game with the largest margin for improvement. We've had several bad maps over the years that are blatantly survivor or killer sided. I honestly forgot that they did a pass on Garden of Joy. There are also some map decision that are weird, like why we have 5 versions of Badham Preschool.
For some reason, we had a full year where maps prioritized aesthetic over gameplay, which culminated in the Red Forest rework, which made things worse. The maps from last year have been fun, though. I like Toba Landing, as it feels like matches on that map could swing either way. Same with Nostromo Wreckage. Both of those maps seem to balance aesthetic with gameplay properly. I'm not on PC, so I haven't played the new map, but I have hope.
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It's stupid that tree foliage blocks the pod lock on at all. The pods are able to tag people in the corn, but a tree branch is too much? I really feel like this needs looked at in a quality of life update. Singularity in Mother's Dwelling is a nightmare.
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Most of the map vary too much to make a single statement so I'll go through a few realms without being long winded. I feel the last 3 maps been fair for both sides but the devs is definitely playing it safe. lack of dead zones & plenty resources to cater towards the Survivor but also a bunch of unsafe pallets for the Killer.
Toba landing and Nostromo half the time spawn miniature versions of traditional loops. Tiny long walls to point that the killer can lunge around half of it. The Jungle Gyms also seem to be considerably smaller as well. The new map and nostromo both full of unsafe pallets with weak main buildings.
Mac maps new variations are fine and The orginal ones are too. outside of some strong main building they feel completely fair
Auto havens reworks was for the most part cool. i don't like azarov but pretty reasonable
The farm map that got heavily work on (rancid abattoir, cowshed) seem to spawn extremely tight 3gens consistently. As far as the loops most of the farm maps feel fair but do contain heavy dead zones.
overall i think behavior been ok on map design recently. yeah GOJ, Lampkin Lane, and Game need re-Reworks but for most part maps are not to egregious anymore. eyrie & mother dwelling way smaller now which is probably the best u gonna get from them.
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Toba, Alien, Hawkins
All doo doo maps. For both sides.
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Nostromo is heavily killer-sided tho. I don't even know what you are trying to prove here.
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I think a pallet should offer gameplay from both sides. Many safe pallets become a break simulator. The killer has to force the pallet to break it. No hit, just the pallet.
I'm not a fan of that. Jungle gyms are safe but fine because they (for the most part) allow mindgames and therefore a chance of getting a hit.
What type of pallet would you want? I see that the map offers a good amount of gameplay. If this is the standart of calling a map killer sided, then I do think we might have a problem.
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There wont be that many on live.
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I love how half of the forum is "ohh i can't predrop 20 super safe pallets, so it's 100% killer sided map". Literally shows how skilled these players are. Why learn looping, try to play mindgames, if you can just pick Gideon, drop super safe pallet and run to the next one and let map to win match for you.
To the post point, i did a post with current maps problems
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Some good ones, some ok-ish ones and some that I despise.
We have a few maps that are quite balanced and actually fun to play on but we also have maps that are extremely one sided and others that are terrible for both sides. Take Cowshed for example. There is a huge dead zone with absolutely nothing a survivor can do around there but there is also a part of the map that is covered in the strongest loops in the game.
The new map seems like a candidate for the latter too. 20-something pallets but almost all of them are terrible. In fact they are so terrible that you can't even pre drop them or loop them without getting hit. But you can try to camp them and then run to the next. So it's not fun for either side. I'd rather they remove a few of these and rework some others to be a bit stronger, so that there is actually a bit of gameplay involved.
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I will say that I'm happy to see that they're at the very least trying out some new ideas and designs for loops, although they don't seem like they'll be very good.
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I was just saying that dislike those maps. I hate playing them on both sides!
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They're getting better thats for sure but there are many that are still heavily survivor sided, Disturbed Ward, Garden Of Joy, Badham, Ormond and Gas Heaven are still dog meat.
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Well I’m annoyed that the game still hasn’t been addressed because of the endless god pallets.
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I hate them all because they nerfed my ability to blend.
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But the pallets/loops on Greenville don’t offer play for both sides. They not very mind gameable; they all but guarantee a hit for killers, especially killers with ranged attacks. So yeah it’s a killer-sided map. Not sure why I should pretend otherwise. It’s normal that a map favors one side or the other, and this isn’t the first or only killer-sided map in the game.
I personally like a mixture of strong and weak tiles. I don’t like maps with weak filler pallets or dead zones. I think Greenville offers good hiding spots (kinda) but I know that isn’t a playstyle anyone really likes here.
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What they did to coldwind was a travesty. I know it was very survivor sided before but now it's just dead.
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I don't really like any of the maps besides wrecker's yard. Every other map has some kind of problem that's annoying.
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Since the map reworks, some maps are still just too dark by default (mainly Autoheaven and Springwood).
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Greenville not only has loops with guaranteed hits. Not even for ranged killers. In my 10+ games that i played on the ptb, i have seen various pallets and loops on the map. There are many rock loops that offer mindgames without being guaranteed hits, 3 pallets at the statue that are pretty strong and can be chained, a shack that again is by no means a guaranteed hit and yes some weak pallets. Additionally, the map is pretty big, this helps the survivor-team. Not the killer. All around, this seems pretty balanced to me.
To conclude, i have two questions for you:
- What do you consider a fair map / a fair tile?
- Do you think a killer- or a survivor favoured map is more healthy for the game?
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for the most part still to survivor sided,
when your chase one hiccup and survivor gets to a pallet window etc, but even when you hit them they get a mini sprint burst, which in itself is fine, whats not fine is when you break the pallet they just dropped and by the time you catch up again your already at another loop/pallet. pallet spawns are horrible and need to be balanced more, you shouldnt have a clump of 3 pallets all next to a god pallet thus creating a psuedo infinite loop until you drop said pallets. this is whats really killing the game for me is that its not fun its just a time waster and feels really boring.
that and some structures having 0 mindgaems on them, like the big machine vehicle on ormond, survivors see you threw the pallets so you cant mind game it and are forced to just W key that loop which almost always ends in you getting pallet stunned, I think im just tired of it and its making games stressful bc I almost have 0 counter play in chase. bc most loops you cant mind game, and pallets spawn so close together that even when they mess up they are already at another loop and safe again, and since 4 people can do that it makes god loopers hell to counter. and alot of it isnt them being skillful at the game its the map holding there hand and saying dont worry if you mess up we will make it to where you still dont get injured and we will give you 3 pallets all next to each other to waste the killers time and 2 gens pop, but dont worry if killer leaves to go to those gens these loops will still be here so you will instantly run to said loops all game bc you know you can abuse them.
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Maps are too big, with too much clutter, too many chainable pallet loops, and too many god windows.
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An example of a map I believe to be pretty balanced is Coal Tower. I’d go on to say most of the maps of that realm are decently fair for both roles. Second up would be the Crotus Penn maps. Third would be the Auto Haven maps. The rest are all over the place.
I think balanced maps like the aforementioned are healthiest for the game. But with that being said, map designs must take into consideration the majority of killers have anti-loop abilities now and that teleport mechanics are increasingly more common. That’s going to be difficult to balance around, obviously, but it’s an important thing to do.
I do want to point out that it’s disingenuous to identify balanced maps for killers because not all killers can be played with the same strategies. Lery’s, for instance, is great for GF and Myers and pretty much any stealth killer but it’s awful for Huntress, Trickster, and other ranged killers. Survivors suffer against the first class of killers (stealth) on this map but perform well against the second (ranged).
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All maps, which got reworked since I started to play just got worse for survivor. This makes the game less interesting and fun for both sides (at least for me).
As killer I dominate most of the time and as survivor I just feel like I have no chance and I have lost only by playing the game.
GoJ has terrible loops outside of main, Shatered scare makes me cry everytime I have to play it as survivor, coldwind maps are just terrible and ormond got also worse. Maybe I forgot some.
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Well, the devs want killers to kill more, right?
Thats why Coldwind got a massive buff for killer, the most killer sided realm in the game
Torment Creek and Thompson House are a joke
And Rancid Abattoir with probably the worst vault window in the game, the one in the main building next to a door, that you have to go around an obstacle after the vault losing all the distance you gained by vaulting. I mean, was that put in the map as a joke? 😂
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On the subject of maps - we do have a forum section set up to garner specific feedback, we'll be adding new realms every few days or so (not weekends), where we're focusing on what players like / dislilke about the maps.
This will be helpful for our Level Design Team moving forwards as it creates a repository of information all in one place for them. So please do not hesitate to leave your thoughts on the maps mentioned there...thank you!
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Thank you for this! Did not see this until this morning, but appreciate you guys taking the time to view and respond to feedback!
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It varies
Swamp is deadzone hell, I always lose on survivor and win on killer
Gideon is pallet hell, I always win on survivor and lose on killer
Those are my 2 biggest gripes
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Will BHVR be responding to the feedback? We had so much negative feedback about garden of joy, but when BHVR made changes to that map, I think they only changed like 1 or 2 breakable walls, and kept everything else exactly the same? And then BHVR didn’t comment on the map changes at all?
There was also a lot of negative feedback about the red maps making it very difficult to see red auras/scratchmarks/blood, and it’s still really horrible. Are these maps red on purpose, specifically to make it more difficult to track survivors?
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We are not going to be able to respond to all the feedback that's left on the threads - we do thank people for taking the time to respond there and give their constructive opinions. However, the intention is to obtain relevant feedback for all maps for the Level Design Team.
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