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Tunneling is overblown

24

Comments

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,322

    And at the end of the trial when they’re looking at you like “ 😒🤨” do you find yourself saying “I promise it’s NOT always like that!” ? I feel like I’ve had to work hard to convince my friends this game isn’t as bad as it is. But the lie can only carry so far.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,322

    Yeah, it is. And the friends I meet in other games are like “I’ve heard of that game, I’m good lol.” It’s tough to get new people into it and even harder to convince them to stay (as survivor at least. Dunno about killer)

  • TwitchVO
    TwitchVO Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 7
    edited February 2024

    Not my experience. My friends saw the chaos and bullshit and thought it was interesting. Idk why people act like this game isn't insanely popular.


    I started playing back when bear traps under hooks were a thing, fast forward years later and it's 10x more popular than I EVER expected for what it was. If people got through that #########, there's nothing I'm worried about.

  • WolfyWood
    WolfyWood Member Posts: 586

    Exactly so let's undo every survivor nerf in the last two years so both sides can be unfair. 👍

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Its not how the game work. Hooks and Gens are objectives that progressively done. A Gen done doesnt mean killer is bad, a hook happen doesnt mean survivor is bad, both are suppose to happen.

    Its wrong in mindset and gameplay wise to expect every survivor should able to be tunneled by killer for at least 4 Gens before last hook.

  • Nebula
    Nebula Member Posts: 1,400

    The new player experience is already abysmal enough, add tunneling on top of it and why would anyone want to actually play this game as a new player in 2024?

    My friend has recently tried to get into the game but I literally can’t even play with him because when I do, he just gets hard focused and taken out of the game immediately no matter what I try to do.

    I’m not joking when I say the only time he’s escaped in 5-10 games or so we’ve played together are when I literally got 5 flashlight/pallet saves on him in a single match.

  • Yippiekiyah
    Yippiekiyah Member Posts: 588

    Survivors off the hook become bodyblock champions then moan that they got tunneled.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,947

    I don't say that because I don't have it in me to lie to them.

    The best I can do is say, "Play Killer." They usually say something like, "I want to play with you though, what's the point in playing if we aren't able to play the game with you."

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 6,999

    That is a separate issue. If you're unhooked and try to bodyblock the killer at the hook, then you have earned your tunnel imo. A couple seconds of no collision would neatly clean that problem up.

  • Doxie
    Doxie Member Posts: 194

    Tunneling drives me crazy. I play survivor with a good group on voice and 3 out of 5 games the killer tunnels....soft camps. Sure we can leave a friend to hang and easily survive 3 of us but that garbage. The issue is killers egos. Killer is super easy. I've only been playing a few months and can get almost 4 kills (if I want) or worse case 2. I don't tunnel. I don't need to. If I take one person out...I feel I'm successful. Keep in mind I'm new and grinding for blood points to get better perks. Just read the posts here from killers ... Gens get done too soon ... Survivor have too many good perks. Are you serious? Looks at the buffs .. killers get improved all the time while survivor gets theirs removed. Obviously they aren't playing survivor. Tunneling is saying, I want to kill people and make myself feel good rather than, I need to work better on gen control and keeping the survivors busy with every but working on gens

  • Doxie
    Doxie Member Posts: 194
    edited February 2024

    I will counter with, if you are tunneling you are bad at playing killer. I tell that to every killer that does it. I call them out and tell them to keep practicing and be better.


    Totally agree with you get destroyed by good groups .. all you can do is learn and hope they don't troll you. If you do...stop playing and stand in the corner. You owe survivors nothing

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904
    edited February 2024

    Efficient yes but in no means bad.

    Problem is not so much the technical definition of tunneling, which varies wildly, but rather the misunderstanding that getting eliminated early or "tunneled" is somehow unfair or bad play.

    Its an elimination game and players are gonna take the opportunity to eliminate others early if its a viable option.

    For the game to be in any way playable there has to be tangible threat from the killer and that tangible threat must be ever present. At no point as a survivor should players be immune from the threat of elimination.

    Which means "tunneling" will remain a viable strategy and methods to counter tunneling should extend gameplay but not completely remove the threat of elimination. Built in BT is an example of this you've got a lil extra mechanic to assist if targeted again off hook but even with it you are still under threat of elimination.

    What you often see people call for is the removal of threat of elimination as a counter to "tunneling", which basically undermines the entire premise of the game.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904
    edited February 2024

    Yes but weighing up those costs and choosing to allocate time between gens or helping your buddies is part of the game.

    You can't do it all every game and nor should you be able to, so when playing with friends who are knew you may have to sacrifice some things, including yourself, in order to help them out.

    Part of building a positive team experience for a new player is being part of the positive experience yourself. You can't guarantee the opponent will but you can try your best to do it.

    Judging from some of the other comments in the thread

    i.e. "I don't say that because I don't have it in me to lie to them.

    The best I can do is say, "Play Killer." They usually say something like, "I want to play with you though, what's the point in playing if we aren't able to play the game with you." "

    If you are constantly poo pooing the experience yourself then what motivation does someone else have to continue with it? If you inject nothing but negativity into it you get nothing but negativity out of it.

    Maybe set expectations better, when I say "hey lets play DBD" I also say "you are gonna die a lot but trust me when you get the hang of it... its fun". I then go out of my way to try and help my new pal out even if it means getting butchered for my efforts. I'm jovial even with that outcome because my positivity will drive theirs, even if the task is hard.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904

    I think it fits the narrative well.

    "Its hard so I want to avoid it. But that's the games fault not mine"... kind of mindset.

    You also have a lot of emotionally charged players who seem to hate the game but keep playing, making for a miserable play experience for others and then they wonder why no one wants to play it with them.

    Look at all the videos of players telling their team mates to DC when they get downed or throwing tantrums, there are a lot of them. It amazes me that people stream this behaviour for all to see. Its like "watch me act like a big baby over a game for an hour". I'd be embarrassed by that behaviour if it was me.

    How many players with that mindset right now are on the forums complaining that the game isn't friendly or fun for new players.

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 545

    The problem is BHVR has made tunneling the most efficient way to win for killers. If someone dies at 4 or 5 gens it's pretty much game over.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,322

    So whenever the topic of survivor gameplay experience comes up, especially when it’s about how the game affects new or lower MMR survivors, there’s always some variant of this opinion/attitude that survivors need to embrace that they’re going to face unfun game mechanics wherein they have virtually no autonomy.

    It’s like there’s this push to normalize survivor players basically functioning as player-controlled NPCs or canon-fodder. But what’s interesting—and I’ve noticed this numerous times here—is that this position is never presented when new or low MMR killers share their frustrations regarding gameplay experiences.

    So I’ve always wondered why survivors have to suck it up, deal with it, pretend they’re having fun, change their outlook (be positive, ‘find the fun’, so on and so forth), and accept the nonsense but killers are never encouraged to do this. Their concerns are quite often met with empathy and validation. And while I’m not saying you’re the mouthpiece for any group of people, what I’ve also noticed is that you suggest survivor players rethink how they approach the game in terms of fun. So I’m curious to know what your thoughts are behind this.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904

    It goes exactly the same for killers and I have said as much before. As a beginner you are gonna eat a lot of losses and be on the receiving end of a lot of bad games purely for the fact of being new an inexperienced.

    It just happens to be more pronounced for survivor because it results in elimination, which is much more terminally abrupt for a player than a killer who gets to remain in game and have an impact even if doing poorly. Which is likely why the survivor version sounds exacerbated given the larger interruption to the game that elimination is compared to a lack of hooks/kills.

    No one is saying that players have to be cannon-fodder for the other side and subjective takes like that can, and have, been made by players on either side about each other depending on which camp they conform to.

    My point is that there is an extreme difference between saying "this is going to be really hard at first" and setting expectations compared to saying "this is going to be hard and miserable and stay hard and miserable and never get better".

    Two things all new players should expect from DBD

    • Survivor is an elimination game you will get eliminated a lot, sometimes harshly.
    • Killer is a time management crunch if you don't manage the time well then survivors will run circles around you and it can drag on.

    Both these things are countered by experience and that takes time. If my friend wants to play with me I'll take the time with them and we'll try to have fun, which can increase as we improve. I'm not going to constantly moan at them how bad it is because I want them to play and that may require my enthusiasm to override more perceptively negative aspects of the game.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,322

    Aside from you taking shots at Pulsar’s take (which I get it, you disagree) this was a very thoughtful and acceptable response. Thank you.

  • hinney
    hinney Member Posts: 26

    I disagree with a lot of takes on here.

    From both sides for me, as I play both killer and survivor quite frequently, tunneling is lame, boring, and unfair.

    When I play killer, I go out of my way to not return to the hook. Or, if I'm near the hook when an unhook happens/the unhook is performed immediately in my face, I will chase the un-hooker, not the person who was just on the hook. If there are two people with the same cosmetic, and the most recently hooked person is healed and I realize I've attacked that person, I will leave the chase probably 9 of 10 times. The only time you get tunneled is when you essentially are asking for it by attempting to body block a full health ally with your base-kit borrowed time as I'm actively trying to not hit you. I generally win games and even beat SWFs, unless they're cracked or bring BNPs and do all the things to crank through the gens as I get 20s into a chase. It's pretty rare that, even playing extremely fairly, I don't get at least 2 kills. Even in those games that I do poorly, you get the toxic teabaggers who stand at the open gate and make you force all 4 of them out.

    When I play survivor, and a killer leaves an active chase to run back to me getting unhooked is very frustrating. Usually you are hooked in a relative dead-zone, because that's how you went down in the first place. The ten seconds of base-kit BT is not always enough to get you to where you need to be to make a decent chase, especially if the killer manages to cut you off and body blocks you.

    Tunneling isn't necessary if you're not playing at the highest levels. "High MMR" isn't the highest levels. Comp/tourney squads are the highest levels. Where you NEED to kill someone before a gen gets popped or you lose 3 all at once and the game is basically over now. Those teams are mega coordinated and pop in for hit tanks and body blocks, and still work on gens most of the time. If you play fairly against your average teams, which, again, is the large majority of the people who play the game (that's literally what "average" is), you have a very solid shot of getting your two+ kills at at least "tying" the game.

    Is simply winning the game in any manner actually the only thing that so many people care about? I care about enjoying the process of the game. I like having fair chases, on both sides. That's the most fun. Do you guys feel a great achievement from tunneling someone off the hook? That win feels good to you? Singling out the "weak link" and specifically targeting that player? I don't see the achievement in that. If you need to play unfairly to win, you don't deserve to get the win, in my opinion. It's way more fulfilling to play fairly and have a hard fought win than to just target a new player and basically win the game with a kill and 5 gens left.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,947

    1) Yes, because that requires an entire team to counter. It doesn't matter if you lead the Killer on a minute and a half long chase if no gens get done. It is decidedly unfun to have that experience ad nauseum. Perhaps once or twice a session, sure, you can take the personal victory of some measure of time waste, but after so many experiences...it becomes apparent that what you do matters very little.

    2) Can you honestly tell me that tunneling decreases the better you get? Because it sure doesn't seem that way to me. I've watched them play and they find it to be the most unpleasant part about the game; when they ask me, "Hey, does it ever get better when I get better?" what am I supposed to say? "Oh, well no, it doesn't you'll just have to get used to it"


    It is a given. It will happen. How bad it is and what form it takes is something else, but I would be remiss to not warn them about the absolute cesspool that is DBD's community at times. Like I said, some of the best people I've met have been in this community; but also some of the worst.


    Perhaps I should've been more clear. The things they find unpleasant do not change with playtime. Tunneling doesn't go away, BM doesn't, camping doesn't nor do boring playstyles or toxicity. Perhaps they could change via BHVR, but that's difficult to predict.


    I'm glad other people can play certain ways, that doesn't change my enjoyment or my friend's enjoyment. We've had this discussion about people roleplaying a "real killer" before and I am not interested in repeating it, I doubt you are either.

    I never dumped this info on them without them asking me first. I appreciate you blaming me for it, but no, I can assure you I was the only thing keeping them playing.


    "The game was fun at first, but after awhile it just gets so hard to do anything and it's not fun. We want to play with you, but can we play a different game?"

    "Do killers stop going after you so fast when your better?"

    "how do i turn off my messages, i don't want to listen to some kid ######### talk me after that"

    "How do you have fun as a survivor, are you supposed to die so quickly, I feel like Im not playing."



    All messages from friends who've tried DBD with me and then quit because it's been such a miserable experience for them. I don't know how to screenshot on my phone, so quotes will have to do.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    This game favors killers for low rates and favors survivors for high rates. A problem that has recently been recognized is that low rates are often incorporated into high rates.

    If it's obvious that the other survivor's ability isn't up to my standards, I will purposely go along with them without going to the tunnel or camping. The most memorable part of these matches was that I intentionally dropped a survivor on my shoulders to show them my intentions and offered them a chance to escape, but at the gate they gave me a full course of bagging and flashlight clicks. I had a feast.


    Survivors are always the ones who make killers so ruthless, but they don't realize it. I am still tolerant of survivors who choose to surrender.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904

    No worries you asked a very thoughtful question and I wanted to take the time to answer it to the best of my ability. That's what discussion is.

    Just to clarify I'm not taking pot shots at anyone in particular, the who or whom on this forum is completely unimportant to me. It's the point, or argument, not the person.

    If the chief complaint is "new players I play with hate it and are miserable so they stop playing," but then all the context is purely I don't do anything to counter that but rather double down on and reinforce their dislike... then you can't really blame people for not wanting to stick with it.

    The distinction between realism and pessimism is very clear, I know I'm a realist. Realistically with anything... if you want to really enjoy it then you gotta enjoy it warts and all.

    Nothing wrong with highlighting and complaining about the things you don't like, go for it, but if all one can do is focus on the negatives and run with a narrative that they'll never be fixed, never improve and its never fun... then forget about why someone else stops playing, if stuck in that mindset you gotta ask why do I even play?

    Last time I checked games were meant to be fun and DBD, for the most part, is still fun... warts and all.

  • Man_of_triangles
    Man_of_triangles Member Posts: 379

    The vast majority of the playerbase can't loop at all since it is unintuitive gameplay and the only way you could really learn how is to spend a thousand hours watching streamers play. Virtually everyone is a "weak link" unless it's a sweaty SWF.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    Your point is solid, but there are some shortcuts.

    Someone have posted a video explaining the map. It's very helpful. It is the best teaching material on how loops to utilize.

  • Man_of_triangles
    Man_of_triangles Member Posts: 379

    It's really not enough. I've been playing on and off since launch and have nearly 2000 hours and I'm still going to go down in 20 seconds or less to an M1 killer. That will be the case until the day I'm allowed to spend dozens of hours walking around the map, alone, in a 1 man private match with no pressure or stress.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    Many players do not try to find out why tunnels are being dug and the causal relationships within the match, and are especially insensitive to mistakes made by themselves or their fellow survivors.

    Therefore, they say to avoid dialogue in game things and base it on moral competition.

  • Quizzy
    Quizzy Member Posts: 862

    Ah....I remember the good ol days that I would recommend this game to people. But all this hard tunneling at 5 gens etc really pushed me to never do that anymore. It's also the reason that dbd is slowly bleeding out players. At this rate, it will eventually be unable to support itself and that all the blame will be towards the devs since they don't want to do anything about it.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904

    You can do that if you want, you jump into a solo custom match with a heap of slowdown perks, you slug the bots and presto uninterrupted map time. Wander to your hearts content.

    There are some great old diagrams showing how to run an LT wall etc, as survivor you want to run it one way, as killer you want to try and interrupt that and run it the other. I'm sure you already know this with 2000 hours but its all there.

    Helped me a lot when I first started, I still go down in 20s from time to time but not as often as I used to.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904

    Try it as chucky if wanting the 3P view.

    The spatial awareness is a lil different but the maps are the same.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    It's okay, I felt that way too.

    The quickest way is to also play Killer, but it's quite painful. Is your camera work, especially being able to look behind you while flying through windows or to the sides as you go around loops? It's important. Some pallet loops give survivors an advantage if they use the pallet first.

    Even if it goes down in 20 seconds, you're good if you keep the killer away from the generator. Help the survivors with other things, like rescues and completing generators. If you can do that, you are enough.

  • hinney
    hinney Member Posts: 26

    If someone is playing in a manner that prevents my fair play, such as extremely purposeful body blocks (I'm talking, running behind the other survivor and stopping in a doorway so I can't pass), I will suspend my normal playstyle and give them what they want.

    I just finished a game where a Feng player (on anonymous mode, shocker for such toxic play) camped and threw shack pallet on me within about a minute of the match starting (as I came up from the basement after hooking my first down) while not even in chase with her to get her Champion of the Light blind and double blind as I broke the pallet, and attempt to triple blind, and teabag and click at me while I looked down to prevent the extra blinds. She was constantly running near me during chase, clicking her flashlight at me, attempting saves while I went to pick up other survivors, a couple times even while injured.

    She wasn't good and thought she was, and was begging for chase until she very quickly got on death hook, and was still in the mix rather than sitting gens while I chased other survivors. I got a down and she and another flashlight player popped out to try to save. You better believe I picked her. If you put yourself in my face like that, you're going to get chased. She was out of the match at 3 gens and like 5 or 6 hooks.

    It doesn't seem particularly inconsistent to me, but it's obviously my own logic. So maybe I'm missing something in my own blind spot but, as far as I'm concerned, if I try to play fairly and you tell me to come chase you, it's not playing unfairly to come chase you. Beg for chase all match, you can have it.


    It's ok in tourneys because that's what what everyone signed up for. That's what's expected. It is, after all, the most effective/efficient way to play and the style with the highest likelihood to give you a win. And it doesn't even work most of the time because of how good the survivors are and how strong their communication is. It's an extremely hard fought game at those levels, even to just get one kill most of the time. At the casual level, it's not hard at all to tunnel people.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 1,520

    Tunneling in DBD is widely considered chasing the same survivor after they have been hooked. As they’re likely in a dead zone caused by their chase, are Injured, their skill level has been evaluated, their location known, and are a step closer to death compared to others.


    Tunneling is not going for the first survivor you see.


    You might be conflating it with the non-DBD metaphor Tunnel Vision: A lack of perspective caused by the intense focus on a singular object leading to the neglection of surroundings.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 1,520

    The irony is that trying to get your friends to play by playing with them is counterproductive given your MMR likely brings you into a vastly higher skill bracket than they should be.

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 545

    I don't think anything will change. It's been almost 2 years since the game shifted to killer sided and the devs say they're very happy with the 60% kill rate. I think in the devs' minds they think that survivors enjoy dying most games because it fulfills some horror fantasy, when the game is actually played like a competitive pvp game.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Survivors dont expect to survive from staying in Killer's face all match. Killers do.

    • Survivors complain about tunneling not because they're not able to escape, but rather not able to fully play the game. I rarely get complaining from death survivors when I dont tunnel (I never tunnel). So Survivors expect to survive from staying in Killer's face all match is not true.
    • Killers, saying survivors just dont get two tapped (dont down and die) then survivors complain about tunneling. What killers mean survivors not to get two tapped?

    Oh btw, the tunneled survivor "staying in Killer's face all match" is killer's decision.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 822

    Reward for non-tunneling behavior from killer more and less people will tunnel. Some people will tunnel regardless because they want to or are pissed off. Just accept that you got tunneled out for whatever reason and move on to the next game.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    Can you clarify what you are trying to say? Is tunneling not the best strategy to win the game? Or is it not a big deal for survivors?

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    Rescue theory. Choose a position where you can be brought down by the killer. Creation of areas where it is not worth the killer to stay due to gen completion. Utilize useful perks such as OTR that make full use of those conditions.

    If the tunnel does not stop, one or more of the above is missing significantly.

  • HerInfernalMajesty
    HerInfernalMajesty Member Posts: 2,273

    I’m sorry to hit a nerve. I appreciate your contributions and never mean to ruffle feathers.

    In my matches I notice that Survivors expose themselves unnecessarily to the Killer quite often. Naturally the Killer will go for them. It’s actually uncannily common in my games for 2+ Survivors to give the Killer free time by staying at the hook a Killer is guarding often times trying to provoke a chase. Maybe they are trying to get the Killer away from the hook but instead it results in a lot of unnecessary downs and hooks. That’s not even mentioning the Survivors that window spam to get the Killer’s attention. It’s just so counterproductive to survival.

    In a large majority of my games it’s as if Survivors want to play chase instead of survival. It’s like hiding is too boring so they get into chase because it is more fun. I am on console so I don’t know what the interactions are in chat after but I would be surprised if insults of tunneling etc. weren’t thrown around despite the impatience I witness from them during matches. I’m sure many Killers get accused of tunneling even when they are not.

    These are things that I personally have observed when I play as Survivor. Other Survivors thinking that the game can be won as a game of tag vs a game of hide and seek.

  • ShadowOvTheHorns
    ShadowOvTheHorns Member Posts: 1

    The real absolute Chad killers can manage to not tunnel for the fun of it and still get a 4 K 😎

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 22,947

    Love the forums not giving me a notification :(


    For me, yes. For them? No. Unfortunately, not winning in DBD is usually because you're getting stomped, which I've noticed is increasingly common. Close games are the rarity now and I can't really enjoy a stomp either way. It's either miserable because you are losing badly or I feel bad because someone clearly got backfilled in.


    Absolute cesspool was descriptive of the community, at times.


    The odds are that those Killers still won. If you actually choose to tunnel with decent perks, you're gonna win 99% of the time. They buy you time to kill someone, even if that person is out of your league.

    They don't happen to themconstantly, no. Few people are tunneled in multiple games in a row. Tunneling itself, however, is present is nearly every game.


    I'm trying to teach them. Tricks and tips I've picked up over the now SIX years (jeez it's been that long) I've been playing. I try to encourage them, suggest fun builds with their limited perks and guide them. I try to take pressure off them, direct them, etc etc


    The messages thing is hidden in settings. It blocks all messages from anyone outside your friends list.

    I do go over structures. They're new players, they go down in 10 seconds regardless. They don't have Distortion.



    Yeah, if being realistic paints the game in a bad light, that's on the game.

    Here's the absolute unbiased truth.


    You will not have a pleasant experience in a lot of your games. You will gain very little reward for your effort. You will need to invest an extremely large amount of time to even get a foothold in DBD.

    Why would someone play a game where they aren't going to have a pleasant experience, where the game is an almost insurmountable grind and an extremely steep learning curve.