General Discussions
General Discussions
What do you think about the new Invocation?
I think the perk can not be buffed further, given its most possibility to give you 7 BNP. But the gameplay is not the same on paper.
- Use it early game: 0 Gen done. David in chase. Vitto, Renato and you do are free
Its still better to have 3 survivors on 3 different Gens, than to have 1 of them sits in the basement. And being Broken for the rest of the match from the beginning is a huge risk.
- Use it mid game: 2-3 Gens done. David, Vitto, Renato taking heat.
When the gameplay become a loop of 1 in chase - 1 on hook - 1 go unhook. Spend 2min in basement while other 3 keep taking the heat is a quick downfall to the team.
- Use it late game: 4 Gens done. Possible one of the team dies (David) at least.
Now to think, why would anyone spend 120sec to exchange permanent 30sec that split into 3 different Gens? And you can not leave Vitto on hook while Renato in chase.
Do you think this perk will be popular? Or may be they will buff the perk further to make people buying Sable then hard nerf after and remove the Invocation concept out of existence like Boon and Teamwork?
Comments
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so bnp perk?
So weaving spiders is just pre 6.1.0 in a perk? lol
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I think the time that is required to spend in basement is bit long and penalty is also pretty harsh
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It's the most logical buff for the perk without having to completely rework it. It's not going to meta but it's not as useless as it was originally. Still requires sitting in the basement and doing nothing for two minutes though.
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I am curious if it is working with No Mither. If it does, then it will be fairly decent combo. High risk but high reward.
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I think it's a pretty bad perk. Even with 0 gens done it's a lot of time to spend in a dangerous location and killers will learn quickly that if they can't find anyone they're probably in the basement.
Perma-broken is a huge weakness to have for most of the match and the killer WILL absolutely just tunnel out the broken survivor to make up for a BNP being on every gen.
I think the only games where it'll actually do a lot of good are games where the matchmaker puts much better survivors against a weaker killer, the killer won't know to check the basement and wont be able to pressure the shorter gens well enough, but in that sorta game any perks can do good work.
If you have time to get the invocation off and not care about the Broken effect, then you were probably gonna win that game anyway, definitely a Win-More perk in my eyes.
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I don't think it'll be popular, but I do think it's now usable and has a clear niche.
It'll be good in coordinated teams, and honestly, smart use of it even in solo queue should be possible. It's definitely not going to be ultra-strong, but it's a nice little starter for this new mechanic; Scourge Hooks were introduced with a weak perk too, and we can see how good that mechanic ended up being.
I think its main strength is going to be countering very territorial killers. If they aren't roaming around to generate pressure, and especially if they're trying to 3-gen, getting gen progress without needing to sit on gens where you might be more vulnerable is definitely viable.
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Probably, there was nothing about being healthy or not Broken for it to work.
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I don't think it will be popular but I'm impressed they listened to and took on board the feedback. That's what stood out to me most in the notes. Also nice that Strength in Shadows got buffed. I honestly thought it was good as was, so that was nice and I'll definitely give it a whirl next week. Wicked having a benefit outside of basement is good too.
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I am gonna test it myself whenever chapter drops. Hopefully it does.
Sure, killer will target me for this but at least they won't know about the other perk. They will just think i am crazy survivor who likes the challange.
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I hope so too. No mither is the only perk that could work in sync with it, so it would be a real waste if it didn't
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How does No mither helps on Invocation? With Resilience?
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Pretty sure it does.
I'm probably gonna quickly check the basement a minute or two into the trial when I see No Mither though LOL.
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I don’t see it becoming popular. I believe the devs will abandon the concept of Invocations as they have Teamwork perks and Boons (despite them trying to make boons a thing again with Alan Wake. Didn’t work).
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I feel pretty confident that this perk is going to tank escape rates for a while after its release, until people give up on it.
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That's why i will do mid game bestie where killer is the strongest. Fight me 😉
Yeah pretty much. I am also planning to use Iron Will too which removes all of your voice with No Mither.
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A meme build for people who would like to enjoy the new perk:
Invocation: WS - No Mither - Resilience - Wicked
Enjoy a silly build.
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Don't think it's going to be meta or anything. It still a niche perk that requires a significant time sink. As a killer main my only concern is it stacking with BNPs but we see, I doubt it be that impactful.
That said I still not a huge fan of this just because it involves basement. Now I feel I'm going to have to visit basement few times in a match and I honestly hate basement as a mechanic in the game. I don't like taking the time to go to basement and I hate hooking in basement. Basement just feels like a time waster to me and I like to ignore it all together as killer. Now I'm going to have to at least go there once in while and I'm not a fan of that.
Overall all im mostly okay with this perk but I don't hate the effect it's going to have on my mindset.
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Or put on territorial.
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Hahaha no thanks. I don't care if this perk becomes meta, you never going to make me use that garbage perk. I rather run only 3 perks than have that perk in any of my builds.
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Ok, you do you.
I'll maybe put it in my load out, as it also counters Sable's better perk, Strength in Shadows.
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More power to you than. I just don't have the room for it in my builds. I would have to give up a chase perk or regression perk for it. On top of that I have to constantly be looking towards basement to even see the aura. I'm pretty sure it doesn't give a notification when someone enters basement right? It just shows you their aura for 6 secs and that it. I just know I used it once on huntress to get her adept when I started playing two years ago and I found it one of the completely useless perks in the game for killer, excluding insidious.
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Understandable.
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I truly hope that only changes that this perk will recieve from now onward will be buffs or none at all.
I love the Invocation concept and I'm glad that BHVR heard us. 15 charges would be better tho.
Now BHVR, please make Dark Theory an Invocation and give it a 3% speed increase instead of 2. People will love that one.
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It does, I did this on the PTB. Since you're already broken from the start of the match, getting broken again from the invocation basically does nothing.
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Boring and probably will never see use. The downside is too high of a risk to use it early on and later in the match, the reward becomes less. So it's a perk that starts weak and then gradually becomes weaker.
It's sad that they don't use the full potential of this type of perks. Going to the basement and investing 2 minutes of time isn't really what survivors want to do.
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Good concept but terrible in practice.
It had a nice potential but spending 2 mins of time is just not worth it for so little.
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I expect noone will use it after the first two weeks, maybe some full SWF groups will get some use out of it but not solos.
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I think it absolutely can and should be buffed further. Being broken for the rest of the match for spending 2 minutes for 9 whole seconds of unregressable progress is not the tradeoff most are looking for.
I think it should be 15 charges and that the broken status should have a timer and not last the whole match.
They seem absolutely terrified of this perk though so I wouldn't expect much to change to it.
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I don't think it would be very good in that case. The killer would suspect you are running the perk because they will know you have no mither. So they'll likely check the basement, and if you are injured in the back of the basement you are done.
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Weaving Spiders is like individually going into the trial with 3 perks and handing the Killer a 3/4K.
Bringing this perk in SoloQ is a waste of time.
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Please don't use it.
Ever.
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Use it every time. (Definitely not a killer based thought)
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Honestly? I can see it being useful if used correctly. Permanently reducing gen times is pretty strong, but survivors shouldn't just rush into it or the killer will get them very easily.
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I won’t be happy until they either remove the permanent Broken status and make it time based or make the user lose a hook stage (maybe too much, but I’d personally give up a hook stage rather than be permanently injured for the rest of the match and tunneled out).
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I'm looking forward to more perks of this type but I feel there's not too many strong effects you can give a survivor in exchange for a health state. I can't imagine many perks of this type existing past maybe a couple.
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It needs to be buffed the downsides significantly outway the gen progress. This perk is still dead on arrival. The numbers alone make it a net negative 50-70 second time investment depending on how you look at it (total gens vs. required gens). On top of that a permanently broken member is most likely a death sentence to most teams
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cool idea, terrible execution
even if the perk was good nobody wants to spend 2 minutes holding m1 in the basement
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I don't think it will be it worth it even after the buff. It's too much time versus only five gens are needed to escape; not seven so those two gens affected don't provide a benefit.
Being Broken is a super hefty downside so not only is there a time loss but there's also the time the Killer gains when downing you as instead of being in chase because it's harder to escape while Broken.
And, if you get caught, you're in the most dangerous spot to be hooked.
If I were to break a 3 gen Potential Energy seems a lot more useful.
Against Plague and Legion it would be more useful as I'll be down a health state most of the match anyway but since you have no idea who you're going to get that's not a bet to really take. On the other hand, if you get Trapper you're completely shafted and a Bubba or Huntress who proxy camps you means you're probably shafted as well.
On the other hand, if I'm playing Dredge with Darkness Revealed (or any Killer with Darkness Revealed) please feel free to ignore everything I wrote and try it. Just please don't do it if I'm playing survivor.
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Tried it in the PTB because I thought "Well if I'm going to be broken all game might as well make the best of it". It does.
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the rewarding is not enough for the wind-up & broken negative. so either reward need to be greater or drawbacks need to be less.
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I do think 1 hook stage is better than Broken. But may be it doesnt instant kill 2 hook stage survivors after finish the pray. Perhaps survivors with 2 hook stage already is better to do the praying than doing Gen.
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As it should be
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I think the broken status should be like 90 seconds instead of for the rest of the trial.
Otherwise it’s pretty niche but does have its uses, in like 3-Gen situations.
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Or may be, Broken until getting hooked.
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That works as well, I feel that it being permanent makes it so overwhelming to use since your wasting 2 minutes in the basement.
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It's probably going to used more to troll than actual benefit.
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I mean, it's better so that's something.
it might be a SWF perk, but even that seems unlikely imo. It still seems underwhelming.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
I can see it only working in a SWF as well like you said, with a good team I can see it being useful, but in solo queue I’m unsure if it will be as good.
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They can make the death hook person that performs this permabroken and non-death hook lose a hook stage.
As it is now, tool boxes with bnp are much better.
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still think it's too gimmicky for regular play.
but I think some people will be able to make it work on specific builds. and by work I mean it will technically do it's function but the effectiveness is debatable
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