Greenville Square (Withered Isle)

I mistakenly thought this was Garden of Joy when voting just because my exhausted mind saw "Withered Isle" XD why is there no way to retract/change your vote XD

But yeah, it's a bit soon for this kind of poll. I'd give a couple weeks so more experienced players can really discover the possibilities of this map.

too early to say, but i feel the map is a little too big? of course need more playtime on the live release. i enjoy the tiles/loops on both sides tho

Too early for balance takes, sure. But it does feel pretty big and therefore survivor sided. Also good for hiding.

but visually this map is great! So much cool details with the cinema and the flippers scattered around! Great color scheme and cool atmosphere and lighting with the car lights and street lanterns! Definitely one of the maps that wouldn’t necessarily need much improvement in this regard and depth of field and fog -while needing improvement in general- don’t feel too blatantly off here!

Only got it a few times. Can´t judge yet.

Looks great. Seems pretty big.

Greenville Square introduces a few innovative design approaches for maps, as for if they are good or bad is yet to be seen. The first one is the filler loops being mostly unsafe but the map having 25 to 27 pallets (more that in any other map), making for chases where the survivor is likely to always have something to loop but dropping the pallets aimlessly won't prevent hits. There are a couple of double pallets loops where each pallet is so unsafe on its own that it is not absurd for both pallets to be there. This safety design approach is not necessarily bad and can perfectly work out.

The other design approach is more devious and hard to assess. The map is the longest in the game, tied with Azarov's Resting Place, yet the generator spread is very peculiar, uncharacteristic of maps with similar shapes. There is a fixed generator at main building on one end of the map and another fixed generator at the statue landmark, but the rest of the generators do not spawn near them and instead gather around the middle of the map (sometimes spawning adjacent to each other in the open). The parking lot landmark never spawns a generator and it is highly unproductive to defend a perimeter with main building, on the other hand, only rarely one will find a favorable perimeter of generators near the statue; meaning that ideally the killer will play most of the trial around the middle of the map, where territorial playstyles are not as effective given that survivors can run towards either end of the map.

The positives of this design approach are that if the killer stays around the middle, they won't need to traverse vast distances to patrol the map and that the survivors count with natural "anti-tunnel" locations at both ends of the map since the safety is more outstanding there and the generators in those spots are so isolated from the rest that it isn't in the killer's interest to spend much time in said places (therefore good locations to go for a survivor that is targeted too aggressively).

The negatives are how the fixed generators at main building and statue landmark are so undesirable to defend that the killer has to play around 5 generators from the start, instead of 7; how the most charming locations (main building & the landmarks) are ideally ignored; how the exit gates are consistently so far apart; how the survivors can run in a straight line for so long without being cut off; and how any killer that is unaware of the tactical endeavor they have to follow will indeed become victim of the absurd length of the map by trying to chase everywhere and / or defend all generators indiscriminately.

If the design approach of "longest map with most generators near the middle & ends of the map that the killer needs to avoid" is found defective, a size reduction and layout rework would be required. Independently of that happening, there are two things that could be improved regardless: the location of the exit gates & the amount of mazetiles getting increased from 3 to 4 (which would solidify the strong & predictable safety of the map that supports the unsafe yet numerous filler loops).

I think it's a lot better than the last few maps we got. It's big but the loops feel much more fair, at the same time the amount of palettes gives you a bit of room to work with. I like the fact that there aren't any new weird structures besides the double palette (that also feels fair for me). The main-building seems to be fair too.

So I think you nailed this chapter, I like everything of it. Besides that you get bonus-points because the map is in the same realm like garden of joy, so I have the chance that I get greenville instead if someone plays this horrible offering!

Fix the Collison on the bushes like you did with Garden. I don't know if the asset team used an old file or whatever. But the bushes feel exactly like old garden. The chainsaw killers get stuck on them just the same way as old garden. Unfairly and not accurate to POV of either side.

The map is very big, but from the bit i played on it the loops seem to be on the weaker side. This is in theory a good balancing point. There are many maps that follow this style and that's a good thing. But it think it could be a little smaller, as its size is a bit too much.

are there supposed to be that many double-pallets? Those two were in view of each other, a little further, next to main, was another instance of those double pallets. --- The number aside; since I don't really care about pallets with Nemo it's hard for me to gauge how safe they actually are. From a surv perspective it looks like a removeable double-long-wall; you drop a pallet and you got your safe pallet. But the killer can immediately break it, leaving you with an unsafe pallet. Which kinda renders the whole structure unsafe...? On the other hand, the stun-potential seems to be rather high, given how bs some pallet stuns can be. Anyone who has some more insight on that one?

Pallets aside: the map is HUGE. Towards the fountain end of the map there isn't too much people want to do there once the gen is done - but survs comp-ing that side ... makes you lose a ton of time as non-high-mobility killer. You basically have to choose between never stepping into main or never stepping into the fountain area if you don't want to spend at least half a gen just walking back.

As for the surv side: It feels extremely pallet heavy - but not in the good way. You have shack, main and two regular tiles with vaults, everything else is pallets. Any killer that can chew through pallets - and there are a lot of them - will be able to deplete resources faster than gens can be repaired... leaving survs to shift-W to the comp fountain as the best way to waste time halfways through the match. Now, if the killer also has mobility he doesn't even care about that.

[edit: kinda forgot my preliminary conclusion. - Which is; between the map being huge and shift-w to fountain, which wastes a lot of time for non-high-mobility killers, I suppose it's technically balanced as long as it's against a killer who doesn't have high mobility or who doesn't care about pallets - or both. Though, while it may be balanced it's also extremely annoying and frustrating and boring, if the best strategy for surv is to just shift-w to fountain and for killer to just not commit to fountain/main.]

This map is miserable. Playing on it now, 5 gens all spawn really close to each other in a circle around the fountain with zero pallets. It's the easiest 3+ gen I've seen in a giant deadzone, the killer hasn't had to leave it all game.

The map feels awful to play on both sides ngl, on killer it feels atrocious because there’s so much empty extra space you may need to walk around in because of how big it is (the very large size of the main building also doesn’t help with this), finding people on this map is an absolute nightmare.

meanwhile as survivor, the gen spawns make it feel atrocious because they all feel bunched up together. In a circle around the middle, the main building could genuinely use a second gen spawn cause the building is so big, a second gen inside or right next to it outside would help flow a lot better.

i think it’s slightly favoured for survivor though cause there’s a very good consistency of loops, my first try on the map i got a 75-ish second loop against a decently skilled unknown with me having zero chase perks. Only going down because i though a certain tile still had a pallet up. (And also bigger maps are just in general better for survivors.

the map could definitely use a size decrease, that is my suggestion, it genuinely feels like playing old (the bigger) mother’s dwelling (which was probably my least favourite map as killer ever) but instead of it being shaped like a square, it’s an awkwardly shaped rectangle.

The map is beautiful but i feel despite what was said about gameplay coming before visuals, this map feels like visuals came before gameplay, way too much open dead space.

This map is huge, one side has the main building with horrible pallets, and the other area, with the statue, feels like it has three times the amount of pallets it should have.

It feels extremely unbalanced because gens spawn all in the statue area, but the map is so big that they're really far apart anyway, and survivors have over 15 pallets to run and waste. On the off chance you run out of pallets, you run to the main building because the killer can't chase there, or they'll be leaving every gen in the map unattended. It feels awful to play.

As a killer, you HAVE to break the pallets because there are a lot of long walls anyway that survivors can use to make an unsafe pallet safe. The two-pallet combo that was introduced for this map is completely horrible, and it's clear no one misses it.

This map is paradise for Hold W gamers. There are tons of pallets to waste, and you can drop five in a single chase and still have plenty in the same area. Not even Gideon feels this awful.

As an m1 killer you can not chase a survivor in the statue area if they're running Windows of Opportunity because they can chain pallets forever, and when you're forced to break them they can just run to the main building

I will definitely agree with you on the sentiment that many players don't want the game to be balanced to be fun on both sides.

I hope to be proven wrong over the coming months with the results from these threads but I think given the... difficulties BHVR has had in map balance among other types of balance, my expectations are very low here. So while there 'shouldn't be' a need to choose one or the other, there very well might be. Problem is that choice is unlikely to be made by us lol. I'm sure it would be easy for you and others in this thread... clearly though there are other priorities like making the map look nice or whatever.

Which to be fair, at least here they succeeded but as AMGC points out, the generators and parts of the map that have the landmarks and look really great are also the parts of the map that the killer wants to defend the least. They could have put the theatre generator on the bottom floor at least somewhere, or put the stairs leading up to the generator room facing the other way so that the killer doesn't have to waste time walking to the access side to patrol that generator.

The trapper can completely hide a trap in the mound outside of killer shack window. Its totally invisible when set, but slightly visible when unset. It still triggers when walked over

I thought there were some limits to how close pallets can be to one another? Doesnt seem to bother this map...

Ive only played this a little, and it felt sort of okay. Not the worst in terms of balance.. I like the visuals, the movie theater, the arcade etc.. But the outside has a bit too much junk and pallets.

EDIT: I just had another game there, and there are WAY too many pallets within a relatively small area. Something like 10 in the park area in front of the movie theater? Most are just few meters away from each other. Atrocious. I would like to change my vote from neutral to survivor-sided.

I can see the size being a problem for the less mobile killers, but since the majority of the gens are pretty central it should be manageable. It has been fun so far on both sides and I'm absolutely in love with the design.

i like playing this map when survivor bc it has a lot of room and has more pallets