The Unknown's Cosmetics and an Appeal to the Devs
So, the Unknown has barely released and we are already seeing cases of it being used for transphobia, as described on a recent thread by @Iron_Cutlass :
I understand this thread of mine is perhaps being written earlier than necessary, after all at the time this is being written we've received no official word from BHVR. However, I believe it is important to make haste this time, because of two reasons:
1- The lack of a license being involved would allow for a hastily action.
2- We may very well see those cosmetics being removed. This is, of course, based on the only other example we have: Smart Face.
Now, I am not sure how many were here for that; some Forum members got banned, others joined, and it all happened a while ago. As someone who was here, trust me when I say that it isn't exactly pleasant to revive this topic. But due to the similarities, I believe it is needed.
For those who are unaware, Leatherface's masks were not removed overnight and everyone was immediately okay with that, no. As a matter of fact, the whole thing was a massive debate in the Forums with several discussions, threads and even polls about it. A lot of feedback was given, but in the end it did not seem to matter that much.
Obviously, no one was opposed to racists being banned from the game. There is no excuse for racism, as there is no excuse for the cases of transphobia being currently reported. Awful people do not deserve to play DBD, and BHVR was absolutely right in removing those players from the game.
Another issue, however, was the removal of the cosmetics themselves, not only Smart Face but all four masks available. Picture for reference:
That was never acceptable. Some awful people chose to act in a disgusting manner, and it cost everyone else some of the best cosmetics in the entire game. They were an unique type of unlockable, something that no other killer had and, to this day, something that no other killer has. They perfectly made the connection between Dead by Daylight and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
And yet everyone paid the price for the actions of awful people who shouldn't be here to begin with.
Now, once again we have a situation of cosmetics being used in a disgusting way. And I would like to leave an appeal to the devs for the situation to be handled in the proper way this time:
Please improve your report system, make sure each and every transphobic player gets punished and banned, but leave the cosmetics alone.
Comments
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Link the cosmetics so people stop using them to be #########. No need to get rid of them entirely.
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Always best to get ahead of something like this before decisions are made in haste.
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I totally agree. I really feel sorry for the people who worked hard to get these masks. Bubba players needed to play at least 80 games to get all the masks and even then you had to wait for at least 1 of these survivors to be in the lobby to get It.
It's a shame it was removed by such a small portion of the bad people in this game.
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Yeah. We need more overpriced links that are awfully uncreative as a result of some idiot. Take the bigger approach and actually ban the people being toxic in your community instead of asking them to do something short term that won’t solve problems in the future.
TF2 did this for years with decals. Games like to have a report feature. BHVR actually needs to act on it.
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I wouldn't care about them linking the cosmetics if it didn't include the weapons. I want to be able to change weapons regardless of the killer's appearance.
I'm tired of the weapons being bound to linked sets across all killers, but with the Unknown the weapons are very different, and the axes are boring as hell.
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I missed those cosmetics of Leatherface dearly. I was even hoping for more faces to wear whenever a new survivor comes out.
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It certainly is. Thank you, btw, for pointing out how the lack of a license allows for hastily actions.
I hadn't realized that, and it is important to leave this feedback here ASAP.
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I had 3 of them: Leaderface, Athleteface and Smartface. Never had the chance to get Survivorface because they removed them during my attempts and no one plays Jake.
Still, it was such a cool idea for an unlockable cosmetic!
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It's just easier to remove the tools that toxic trolls use rather than waiting for them to use them before banning them. Because it doesn't stop them from using them and causing harm in the first place, it only stops them from doing it afterwards but only on that account it is used it on. They can just come back. And these types of people are never going away. It's more efficient for the support team as well who i think are already overloaded, it takes weeks sometimes for support to get back to you.
I think BHVR should just make those outfits sets. I think it's the most effective and least disruptive solution.
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I really hope history doesn't repeat itself here. Not only would it be sad to see these cosmetics gone but it also wouldn't fix the issue anyway. The people that go out of their way to harass others will continue no matter if they can use certain skins for it.
Also, what happens next time something like this happens (which it will)? This issue is not going to go away by covering it up. Instead the individual people, that actually do act in this way should be banned immediately (with sufficient evidence, mind you).
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But they aren't simply tools, my friend. We're talking about cosmetics, excellent ones at that. They are not be blamed for the actions of awful individuals, nor should the entire community pay the price.
"Easier" doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Those players need to go, not the cosmetics. This has always been the case.
Well said, my friend. I agree completely.
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it was fantastic and when i first saw the unknown i really hoped they could revive that idea and give us diffrent skins representing the survivor but then reality crashed i and reminded me that this can never happen cause it would probably spawn the same argument again even so i think it would be diffrent this time
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I mean, cosmetics are a form of expression. Devs can decide what cosmetics are available which dictates what expressions are available.
Problem with the unknown cosmetics is that it allows you to mix the cosmetics in a way to resemble a harmful stereotype. If they made the outfits sets then you couldn't do that anymore.
To be clear, i am not saying the outfits should be removed, i think that would be going too overboard and it would limit the character too much. Only that the head and body pieces of the current very rare and rare outfits of the unknown should be unbreakable.
The price is you wouldn't be able to mix those items anymore which i think is a small price to pay.
The benefit is that people wouldn't be able to use those cosmetics to cause harm anymore. It would save support resources. Cause the problem with these scenarios as well is you can't prove the people using those cosmetic combinations are trying to be transphobic. Especially when they try to do it implictly, and as well if they don't express that in the game themself, they can't ban based on things on other platforms.
So, that's why i think it would be an effective and least disruptive solution.
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i don´t wanna be rude or something, but removing his cosmetics because transphobic people are using them is a bit dumb, what about like, removing.... the.. players? so the transphobic people can´t ´´hunt´´´.... trans people?
but i think it would be hard too, some people already called me homophobic just because i killed a survivor using the pride charms (the only survivor using them) 😐️
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Honestly, same.
Cause the problem with these scenarios as well is you can't prove the people using those cosmetic combinations are trying to be transphobic.
And that proves my point.
What about the people who are just mixing and matching their cosmetics? Why should their experience be affected, even if only slightly, by the actions of awful individuals?
Transphobic individuals have no place here. They should be permanently banned immediately. No warnings, no second chances.
But we are talking about turning the cosmetics into sets. Which, as you know, are hated by the community. It is better than a full removal, but it isn't a good solution either.
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The point i was trying to make is that bad actors can act in a way that doesn't get them banned. They can wear those cosmetics with bad intentions, but if they don't break the rules, you can't ban them. They can wear the cosmetic combination to portray a harmful stereotype, because the game lets them do that and it's not against the rules. I think the game should not let them do it. Don't allow them to express a harmful stereotype.
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The simplest solution would be to designate sets as male and female sets, so you can mix and match sets which share the same sex, but cannot combine beyond that range. That way, it prevents the option of transphobia, whilst not removing any cosmetics from the shop. It would restrict the variety, but I'd rather that than any removal of cosmetics.
The most ideal way would be to perma-ban, but banning IP addresses or accounts are often countered because people just make new accounts or change IP. Although I'm not well-versed in what can be done, I'm unaware of any thing that can be done to ban a player by putting a lock on their console or PC. Accounts and IP addresses are free, and so long as the game is downloaded they don't have to pay again to use it.
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Do this and I demand a refund...straight up. You can link those sets over my dead Trans body
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I’m sorry but BHVR shouldn’t bend the knee at all.
they should stick to there guns and keep the skins. This is a horror game after all who cares? I understand bullying and harassment but here’s my question.
why not just block the people? Or mute the endgame chat. If you get tunneled what if it wasn’t cause of trans people and because he was a killer who tunneled?
BHVR shouldn’t just remove the skin of a “unknown” skin Walker who wears peoples skin. That’s like removing the vomit from plague cause I hate vomit. Or removing the blood cause I hate gore. It’s a horror game cmon now
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The actual post says they have transphobic slurs and ######### in their profiles and as their names.
It gets kinda obvious why people do it.
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So how do you discern the difference between genuine reports of this and those where killer players are reported out of spite? The only way you can as far as I know is if the killer basically admits to it when the match is over. This is problematic from all angles.
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It's gotta be hard when it comes to reporting because they have to sift through all the reports on tunnelling, teabagging, camping, looping, etc, that waste their time just to get to cases like this. I can see why taking the tools away from bigots is the easiest option.
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Then report and move on? In cod lobbies there were so many people that said even worse vile stuff. This situation is the SpongeBob rollar coaster of insults
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They can create a new report category, or have people look at those reports specifically. It is, of course, possible to filter reports, look for the ones which actually need to checked.
Obviously I don't have all the answers, but I just cannot accept good cosmetics being removed because of disgusting individuals, again. If there is any chance to avoid that, I have to try.
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Ok so apparently the VA of the unknown has come out and refuted the statement
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Alright, quick update:
Apparently it has been out for a few hours now, but the VA released a statement on Twitter about the situation.
Thanks @GoodBoyKaru for sharing it on a different thread.
And it looks like the skins aren't going away! Well, this is a relief.
I gotta say I was expecting the worst here.
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If they leave this to the report system I feel like its going to be endless false reports mixed in with some genuine ones. They can do that, just like how they could've before, but will they be able to filter out all the bad ones? They messed up by removing leatherface's cosmetics. Now they are held to a standard regarding situations like this because of how a similar situation was handled before. This is why you can't overreact to situations like this. Universal punishment because of what an extremely small amount of people do is wrong.
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I didn't realize it had gotten to this point (though I'm not too big on social media, especially twitter) that people were calling for a boycott. The devs have done nothing wrong. The VA not being in the know was likely because of them trying to contain the leaks, nothing nefarious.
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"in cod lobbies" the second you bring up this argument you lose.
have you considered that there is a world outside of cod lobbies filled with wonderful people and creations and if you went outside and laid on some grass you would come to appreciate the beauty of nature and joy of life and wonders that you can feel when you take a step back away from being chronically online surrounded by anonymous people being their worst selves and quite simply speak to a loved one in person
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Yes, I didn't have the full picture either. Until now, that is.
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Wait I’m confused. First she said she was potentially gonna pursue legal action and she felt ’tricked’ by BHVR and stuff but now she’s… saying we should back off because BHVR isn’t responsible for people using the character to harass transwomen?? I’m totally confused now. What exactly is she wanting people to do here? I know she’s saying ‘leave it alone’ but what does that even mean now?
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Yeah someone was able to dig up the deleted tweet and im a bit confused. She seemed a lot more against bhvr at one monent. And was basically trying to turn the witch hunt on them. But i guess the tones changed a bit after they talked?
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It’s good that she’s received support from BHVR for the harassment but it seems her initial reaction was hasty and presumptive. She typed that a non-binary voice actor may have been better suited to provide lines for the character (in a tweet I believe she has also since deleted), but now I’m confused why her providing voice lines brought her discomfort. This character isn’t trans or even human. And it certainly isn’t a replica of her personally. She is a character actor and this is a video game monster. Reflecting now I must wonder if maybe she’s somehow intertwining herself into the fabric of the character. I don’t know why it would bother her to provide voice lines for it otherwise.
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Maybe for you, someone relatively unaffected.
I kinda expected better from you, honestly.
Consider the people it DOES affect. I learned, painfully, that having a competition over suffering is a fool's race. What affects you may not affect another in the same way. It's why we have empathy.
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Damn, you know when the general speaks, everyone should shut up and listen
and yes i agree with you
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I'm wondering if some of the playerbase approached her and convinced her she'd been duped or something, and BHVR of course had to assure her that no, that wasn't their intention. I just hope this situation doesn't stop the team from giving more opportunities to trans actors (who notoriously struggle to break out in the entertainment industry). It's hard because BHVR have been able to more or less curb major leaks recently and obviously keeping most of their employees in the dark is how they did it. Obviously the VA was not aware of why she was kept in the dark (or she was but some players have convinced her it was something more nefarious). It seems things are clear to her now and she wants the furore to calm down now.
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I just hope this situation doesn't stop the team from giving more opportunities to trans actors
The damage is already done IMO.
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This is all speculation, however I'd argue that she was probably feeling very annoyed and very attacked last night following the amount of vile attacks she and others were receiving. It's likely that she was emotional and hurt. Bhvr probably reached out, offered apologies etc, and as of this tweet they've been on good terms. She deleted quite a few tweets and that community post last night, and then probably some more this morning.
What it looks like now is that she and BHVR are on good terms again, and while the lack of communication is upsetting she realised she was directing a lot of anger at BHVR that should've been directed at the community.
Again, I am not Zoey Alexander (I wish I was her singing voice is killer) and cannot pretend to know her personally, so this is all entirely speculative based on her most recent tweets.
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The survivor VA is also (technically, though I don't know if they identify as it themselves) trans so I don't think every bridge has been burned just yet.
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COD Lobbies being some of the vilest places to be does not automatically mean every other lobby in every other game has to be like that
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Regardless of the reason I would agree that the report system BHVR has as a whole could use improvements. There have been recent feedback changes for players reporting which is great but there's still a lack of tools / options for players.
I doubt the cosmetics go anywhere but I'd hate to see them restricted in some way because a minority of losers who play DBD.
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Yeah I love when people say stuff like
"Being soft like that you would've never survived cos lobby or xbox live lobbys!"
Gues what girlie pop youre innocence and mental health did not either
Edit cause i obviously cant walk and write at the same time
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Hopefully not 🙏
BHVR have always been strongly pro-LGBTQ+ so I’m hopeful this won’t deter them.
I do think it might unfortunately lead to them setting future Unknown cosmetics though. I guess time will tell.
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I said it another thread and I'll say it here.
correlation is not causation!!!
Ban the people behaving this way not the cosmetic.
Be mindful how you use self disclosure online, especially in an online pvp game. I'm not in any way justifying their behavior (it's sickening) but we have to be aware what we choose to share online.
I do not share any information about myself whatsoever in dbd. I don't need to be doxxed and have people know who I really am. I play anon, and my profile is hidden. Not worth the stalking/hitting on I'd deal with if they knew. We can't control others so keep that in mine when self disclosing info.
Again, not justifing their actions, but if I can prevent something I will for my own sanity.
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Exactly. This is what I meant when I said correlation is not causation. They'd have to do a LOT of research and testing to figure this out, which I doubt they have the resources for.
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I hadn’t considered this. You could be right. Maybe she had devils whispering in her ear.
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I hate the implication that using cosmetics is automatically evidence towards some sort of hatred.
Add onto that that I, and I assume many other players, haven't once looked at a survivor and noticed their charms (unless they're the ones that are all lit up and you see them when they're trying to hide) and I think the "I get tunneled for my charms" holds a lot less water than I think people think it does.
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Well done for making such an important & well written post my friend,
Haven't been on the forum or game for a week, personal issues, but sad to come back to read stuff like this.
Not really much to add I agree with everything you said & hopefully this will turn into one of those mega post threads & the devs will take action quickly as well as actually banning these people we don't need or want in our game!
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that is absolutly right i had the same thoughts back when buba was the problem. how would you know that i tunnel you for reason x while i use the cosmetic in question. i could just tunnel thats what many killers do all day long
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The problem is that people go out of their way to let the player know they were targeted.
in case of in-game chat or even player name I suppose it’s easy for BHVR to take action. But there are edge cases where the attacker knows how to use words in a way to not actually break any rules but still be clear enough. There are many homo-/transphobes on these forums that do this as well.
also, and probably more relevant, those that target the players outside of the ga - eg on the players profile, platform direct messages or streams. BHVR can’t take any action here and it’s completely out of their hands even if they wanted to act. Btw that was the case with Bubba - many streamers were directly harassed in-game and on Stream but to an extent that BHVR couldn’t do anything and streaming platform didn’t act/care or whatever.
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