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Splash Damage Killers (Huntress & Unknown) fit neither shooter games nor DBD
These two, in particular, are playing by their own rules by having one foot in the FPS genre (range attcak) but not the other ("close enough" isn't supposed to grant max damage). The shotgun user that clips the outer right thigh of the opponent should not be doing the same damage as the shotgun user that reliably gets headshots. Skill's rewarded and you're given what you've earned.
In DBD, some hits are more equal than others (outside of one shots, Legion, Trickster's knives). The beach ball projectile that clips the border of your Survivor's capsule-shaped hitbox is worth a health state as much as a direct, centered melee attack. One hit is true and the other is given the benefit of the doubt. If the hitboxes are not going to change, maybe it's time to register these really fringy projectile hits as partial damage like Trickster's knives and only reward direct hits with full health states.
And concerning the new Killer, if Unknown's design had been based on a rogue military general with a grenade launcher and not a goofy neon pink orb, the power would be really hard to defend. When Nemesis was teased, there was speculation that he'd have an RPG. People figured it would be OP, though, even if he could only tier up to the power on occasion like Myers or Oni. There's a short cooldown for Unknown.
DBD, at its core, is a slasher game and not a shooter game. Huntress and Unknown are playing in an FPS world with DBD rules, though, and it feels cheap. This update is about them. 10 hatchets on new gen or MnK, there's no reward at the end for the Survivor. You're going to go down even if you dodge 8 hatchets in a minute. Same thing for the orb attack. 95-99% of the playerbase will be better playing as Unknown than playing against him. It's like playing Zero Build Fortnite without a weapon going against an opponent with a grey grenade launcher. The venom is not that good but it's still going to down the Survivor pretty quickly. Especially when people learn all the angles and nuances of the power.
Comments
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Giving Huntress and Unknown partial damage would be a terrible idea, at least imo. Trickster can have upwards of fifty knives. Huntress get's 10, at most. While I think the Huntress buffs were unneeded, she's totally fine, other than maybe her adeptness at camping. Your agrument for the game being a "slasher game" would be more credible if Huntress wasn't the, you know, the 5th killer added into the game? She's been apart of it for most of it's lifespan, now - and is probably one of the more inconic original killers they've added. I can agree that the hitboxes need tuned up, but a lot also depends on latency.
i think it's still too early to say against the Unknown, but it already needs to hit it's attack at least three times to get a down - and even more if the Survivor manages to get weakened off. if anyone is 'playing by their own rules'. it is and will always be Nurse.
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I dont see any issue with ranged killers. I consider the entire point of their powers is to encourage survivors to remain out of sight. Having killers that can discourage "runners" hasnt hurt my survivor experience
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Nah, if they had partial damage they would just be worst tricksters.
"The venom is not that good but it's still going to down the Survivor pretty quickly. Especially when people learn all the angles and nuances of the power."
Are you seriously saying people getting value when learning the ins and outs of a power should not be a thing?
On the other hand, if survivors are good the unknown has 1 shot before they remove weakened, and that shot can be dodged, so you as a survivor have ample options for counterplay against unknown.
Finally, saying that these killers play on a whole different level either shows willful ignorance for the sake of the argument or very little experience playing said killers. As killer is not only the chase but the macro gameplay and projectile killers still have to play the macro game.
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The venom attack is a problem because Survivors don't move with any sort of dynamism (Survivors are slow, can't jump, can't go prone, they're stunned when they fall from two foot heights, etc.), they don't have the benefit of using their environment for protection against the UVX (it hits through walls), and they have no means to attack the Unknown. You're going up against an opponent with a grenade launcher in any other game you need one or more of those things for a fair fight. Every other game gets it but DBD. I even think the power is kinda clunky and slow, but so are Survivors in DBD.
As far as learning the ins and outs, the game has brought in a lot of players -- new and returning -- with this update. As Survivor, what are their first impressions of grenade launchers and 10 hatchet Huntresses? I haven't played the game since the anniversary. These powers and buffs are questionable. The counterplay against the Unknown is a lot harder than learning to use its power.
As far as the macro, you can do gens against Huntress but you don't have a chance in the 1v1 against 10 hatchets or 7 hatchets with double wind-up. She has immense snowball potential. Infectious Fright used to be a feared perk. What about two or three Survivors caught out of position against a Huntress with 10 hatchets?
And I brought up new gen and mnk for a reason. Part of the supposed difficulty of Huntress is coming from old gen console players (Deathslinger is my most played Killer and I'm on PS4). She is not hard on new gen or PC, period. Solo survivor against The Unknown, the Killer is S Tier.
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My problem with the two Killers is that the game isn't faithful to ranged attack logic like it's faithful to melee logic. You spear a Survivor, you take a health state. There's no controversy. But Huntress and Unknown, close enough is the standard. Give Survivors 200 health points against Huntress and let her fringy shots be worth 67 health points. Let her centered body shots be worth 140. She can down a Survivor with an accurate body shot and one of her fringy shots. But, she can't down a Survivor with only two fringy shots. Let her get a one shot down for a headshot; it's 200 points. Survivors would disconnect on the head shot but it would be more fair and easier to digest than getting downed after turning the corner, feeling like you beat her and got away, but it turns out the edge of her circle clipped the edge of your hitbox. It's not going to change but I get hit after already turning the corner against her just about every match and the design for Unknown's ranged attack is rooted in that experience.
With Unknown, I would rather allow it to be more dynamic while requiring less from Survivors than have it exist in its current state. The cooldown between shots is reduced to 5 seconds, and a direct hit takes a full health state (hindered is not fun as Survivor; it should be for Clown's bottles and Freddy's bloodpools and nothing else). These are buffs. But, in exchange, Survivors have to stare him down for only 7 seconds (most Survivors, including myself, can't traverse the map while looking behind for too long before running into stuff) and they can get rid of Weakened by dispelling hallucinations. The blast radius of the UVX orb is reduced by 20% or something. I would think this is more fair and fun from the Survivor side.
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Your asking for a fair fight in an asymmetrical game?
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survivors are able to heal the damage of UFX weaken state. they look at killer for 0.01 second and it removes 3 second of weaken state. In practice, just using high-walls and peaking killer for 0.1 second while turning corners where killer is unable to get a clear shot is highly advantage for survivor. This can often lead to killer having to hit survivors 4 times.. 5 times just to down a survivor between the two health-states.
Huntress does play an fps game in dbd but she also is 4.4 m/s killer.
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Many slasher and monster films prominently feature ranged weaponry, as it establishes the idea that the pursuer is a threat even from a distance. We've seen Jason use a bow and arrow before. Horror characters can attack from afar just fine without ruining the tone of their work, and usually, the idea the killer can attack you from afar adds to a feeling of being vulnerable. Huntress, the Deathslinger, and now the Unknown really play into this well. The former two can't move as fast as other killers, but the sheer range of their attacks means survivors feel constant pressure anyway. It's good for the horror. Unknown not only can't hit directly, but he needs to hit upwards of three times to down you with his projectile. You could argue the projectile itself is Unknown's problem, and while I have my gripes a potentially-alien, potentially-bioweapon, potentially-whatever creature firing an unusual substance that affects the mind seems entirely in line with the genre.
Besides, Huntress' projectiles have no splash damage. That's not what that term means. Splash damage refers to an area of effect that follows or surrounds a main projectile. Huntress' hatchets just have a large hitbox to compensate for the fact they'd be pretty sucky otherwise. Unknown's AoE also isn't too wide as to be undodgeable, and the projectile bounces? The mere details of his projectile open up plenty of opportunities for skilled play on both sides.
Not every killer has to play the same.
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They're asking for a fair test of skill - large aoe globes that can be fired off every few seconds and go through walls nullifies any of that.
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The shotgun user that clips the outer right thigh of the opponent should not be doing the same damage as the shotgun user that reliably gets headshots.Not a fan (or old enough to remember?) the joy of License to Kill mode in Goldeneye?
FPS games can focus on damage to particular areas because that is what the entire skill expression is based around. If the games didn't have different damage levels there wouldn't be much to play for. But even within that genre it is handled differently, some games have detailed hit systems (leg hit slow a character) while others just go with health pools and basic areas (example: I think Overwatch does a headshot multiplier, but otherwise it doesn't matter if you hit a target center chest or catch the bottom of their foot). The level of detail is tied to how many other things are going on in the game - if its a game where the skill expression comes from abilities and skills it doesn't necessitate a detailed targeting system.
When Nemesis was teased, there was speculation that he'd have an RPG.Wait, did anyone ever actually believe that? I always thought it was a joke.
10 hatchets on new gen or MnK, there's no reward at the end for the Survivor. You're going to go down even if you dodge 8 hatchets in a minute. Same thing for the orb attack. 95-99% of the playerbase will be better playing as Unknown than playing against him.Whether the new Huntress is too powerful or not (I think too powerful) is a different question - and being able to become proficient in a killer more quickly than learn the counterplay against them is pretty much true for every killer in the game.
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AoE spheres that are completely counterable and require good prediction to hit through walls or around corners. You can't run against the Unknown quite normally--but if you can't adapt to that, then you probably deserve to take the hit. Not only do the more advanced shots require considerable skill that survivors can attempt to predict and play around, but Unknown also has to hit three or more times with its power. It is a fair contest of skill, it's just not the same contest of skill as with some other killers.
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If we’re gonna talk fair a direct hit from a hatchet should be an insta down without add ons. Like how a shotgun is in fps games. Hatchets are the only projectile that would insta kill someone. So how about we just leave it the way it is?
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Out of all the ranged killers you're really gonna complain about these two but completely ignore Artist, aka the top 5 killer who barely has any counterplay in chase ? Be fr now.
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Is there no skill in dodging a shot? Is there no skill in baiting a shot? Is there no skill in being able to swivel the camera so the weaknesses bar goes down while you're looping the killer?
Plus only the explosion goes through walls, idk why you'd stay near the wall if you know this.
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I love junkrat tho. Sounds like OP only thinks hitscan means "skill".
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