Suggestions concerning players who kill themselves on hook
I've been reporting players who kill themselves on hook for quite some time now since it affects solo queue pretty badly and even duo queue at times. I was debating with my girlfriend if there was even a point to report those players and our conclusion is maybe there is a way to combat this plague.
Adding a timer that prevents unhooking yourself within the first 5 minutes unless you have a perk that promotes unhooking yourself, like Wicked, Deliverance or Slippery meat means players won't be able to kill themselves on hook after their first hook early in the mach when most suicides on hook happen. After 5 minutes or even 3 minutes, players are more invested in the match and have less chances to quit. If they really want to throw the game after that, it will obviously show and this will raise the chances of reports. It is not a perfect method since there is programming involved but I don't think that's too big of an obstacle.
Otherwise, my initial recommendation was to detect players who kill themselves on hook and possibly auto report them IF they have a pattern of trying to unhook themselves within that 5 minutes playtime in their previous games. However, I don't think Behaviour will auto report anything though with A.I I don't know, could be possible ?
I really want to better the solo queue and duo queue experience for my fellow gamers and I believe this issue deters people from enjoying solo queue and instead it's a constant sword of Damocles looming over every teammates that is not yourself. Like I said earlier, those type of players who kill themselves on hook have a striking pattern : they play solo (ain't no way you are putting that shame unto someone else you are queuing with), usually high prestige but not always (though the chances are a lot higher if they are prestige 100), they play chase perks like Dead Hard or Resilience, they usually play with a flashlight but not always, they will disrespect killers by tea bagging and such.
TL ; DR
Without going too much into motivations as to WHY these players do this, it does send a clear message: "I don't care about my teammates or this match." We should not tolerate this behaviour and that's why I still report these people, and I do receive feedback sometimes that actions were taken on a player that I reported. If this post makes you report these players more then I've made a difference, but I would like to know if you guys had thoughts on this matter and suggestions concerning players who kill themselves on hook.
Comments
-
Your opinion is very valuable. There is no shortage of self-proclaimed decent players who fail to recognize themselves as trolls. I think the proposal itself is a good one.
However, if it is realized, I feel that the DC will only increase.
0 -
This is not reportable behavior. Please stop clogging up the report queue.
5 -
Actually, intentionally throwing the game is unsportsmanlike behavior and very well reportable.
It's just that BHVR usually don't have a way to distinct legit try and suicide, unless something in the data is so off I guess?
1 -
It's taking advantage of a game mechanic. If they didn't want people to try and get off the hook, the feature would not exist. Your reports are on the same level as reporting someone for bagging in the exit gate or clicking a flashlight at the killer. Pointless and taking focus away from legitimate reports of cheating and hate speech.
2 -
Except "holding the game hostage" is just equally "taking advantage of a game mechanic" but still bannable.
And I'm always saying if DC penalty exists remove hook suicide too.
2 -
So when, upon getting hooked after not having been two tapped, I see zero gen progress, no one on or even near a gen I'm supposed to somehow make myself believe that "trust - this match is gonna turn around!" ?
I mean, sure. If that's implemented I have no issue planting myself on the next gen and just not going anywhere until I get grabbed two more times. But… does that improve anything? Truth is, that depending on how a match starts, some matches are effectively over within a minute or two.2 -
Actually, it does improve a lot because if it's not easy to leave vast majority will might as well play the game out.
or they take penalty.
Expecting those who can't stay in a game to be hardcore enough to die is weird.
0 -
Behavior doesn't have an explicit option to take the game hostage anywhere. You can't push the "take the game hostage" button and not let anyone do anything. You can however, push a button to try and unhook. One is an explicit mechanic, the other is a flaw that is variable and difficult to correct.
You can't force people to play the game. Someone forced to play isn't going to be a happy camper. They're going to spam loud noise notifications and lead the killer to other survivors with plausible deniability. It's not worth it. I'd rather play with a man down than with someone actively sabotaging me.
0 -
When people don't start playing the game while there is a chance to actually play the game - how would a change in the unhook mechanic change anything about that?
I mean, like I said; I don't particularly care. If either side doesn't want to play that match because there's no point in doing so there are ways for them to go next sooner rather than later. But I highly doubt it will improve the match experience in any way.1 -
Because survivors might as well actually play the game when they have no choice.
It's lot more boring to be hooked and rescued three times than just playing the game, even when losing.
0 -
when "just playing the game" - as in playing that match is a 0 out of 10 in terms of fun and excitement, nope, getting on that hook and tabbing out is the less boring option.
The entire point here is that "going next" - one way or the other - because you don't want to be in that match is the thing. 4%ing is just the atm quickest way to accomplish that.1 -
Why punish survivors instead of looking at the causes for killing themselves?
You can definitely tell if the game is lost within the first minute. Survivors don’t have any chance of comeback. Healing got massive nerfs, gen regression is meta meaning survivors have to do 7-8 gens. All maps are getting smaller with more unsafe loops and pallets. Killers having anti-loop keeping chases short, and let’s not forget tunnelling which happens in 90% of the games. If survivors can’t get at least 2 gens done during the first chase, the game is pretty much lost. It is simply not fun.
It’s better to solve the underlying problem before punishing survivors, because let’s be real, no survivors will continue playing with this idea. They will just go afk1 -
Self healing got a nerf. You can still heal others at normal speed. Faster, since hemorrhage and mangled are basically gone. Gen regression has always been a killers best option. Most of those options have been nerfed severely. Pop used to be a flat 25%. Pain res used to be unlimited. Overcharge and eruption are gutted by the regression limit and surge is in a weaker place because of it. Nearly every map is still heavily survivor favored. Who is "killers"? Do you think legion has anti loop? DS is about to get it's 5s back. I also don't see tunneling in 90% of my games unless you have an incredibly loose definition of what tunneling is. Gross exaggeration.
You can't make people play the game. They'll always find something to get upset over. Remember before 6.10? Survivors were incredibly powerful and I still had ones that gave up on hook because I baited their busted dead hard. People give up on every online PVP game when they get tilted. Walk down mid in dota/league. Jump off the map in overwatch. You're never going to have a happy all smiles experience.
0 -
When killing yourself is solely done to get out of the match without receiving the disconnect penalty then killing yourself should either not be possible or receive the same penalty as a normal disconnect.
The reasons as to why the ragequitters do soe are irrelevant to this discussion.
1 -
Most of players doesn't feel more fun in literally doing nothing and repeatedly being hooked and rescued for like 5 or 10 minutes, even when absolutely losing.
So your argument is moot, people will play out the game when they can't quickly leave, there is no denying.
Prolonging time and effort it takes to throw the game absolutely will fix problem more or less.
Because root cause of this problem is people being ######### and not some game issue.
You can't fix bad people, only thing we can do is just properly punish those people so game won't get harmed.
It's like saying "if you want to stop cheating we should implement free advantage to them so they don't have to cheat", that's stupidest argument.
2 -
no, it most definitely won't. What makes you think someone who doesn't enjoy something will then do something they don't enjoy?
0 -
The mangled and hemorrhage changes aren’t noticeable, either you wait 90 sec to heal or it’s the same as before.
Gen regression perks are still super strong, especially with the increased gen repair times, GE and DMS. Hence comeback isn’t a thing.5 sec DS is a good first step but it won’t solve the problem of survivors killing themselves.
I haven’t said anything about legion.
Tunnelling - getting one survivor out of the game as fast as possible, ignoring other survivors. Yes that happens almost all my games. 90% is an estimate. So no, it’s not a “gross exaggeration”. Sound more like you’re ignoring the problem of tunnelling.
Survivors being incredibly powerful is a gross exaggeration. Survivor sided sure, but incredibly powerful no.
Those games have the possibility of a comeback. Dbd does not.Edit: the point is to point out reasons for survivors killing themselves. There are many more reasons. Teammates not doing gens, sandbagging or trolling. Killers BMing, using cheats , etc. The list goes on. Punishing survivors for getting out of the game quickly will kill the game. Dbd is not growing, they need to retain the players they have.
0 -
The mangled hemorrhage changes made healing off hook trivial and have killed hit and run. Outside of regression and blocking there is no game stall.
Ya you said "killers" have anti loop. Killers as a whole do not have anti loop. Some do. Many do not. Like legion.
Gen regression perks aren't super strong. There's precisely two good ones, which are demonstrably weaker than they were in the past. Do you know which ones those are? DMS and grim also are not regression perks, by the by.
Survivors were ridiculously powerful pre 6.10. Unbreakable DS in endgame. Dash/invincibility dead hard. Currently things are a lot more balanced. With a couple caveats I'd say the game is more balanced than it's ever been.
I'm not buying the tunneling thing. Sorry. It's maybe 2/10 of my games that the killer hard focuses someone. I'm free tonight and live EST. If you want we can group up and test your position. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
0 -
Imagine if there was a system that would allow a bot to take your place if you wanted to leave the match. Pretty neat hey.
Now I want you to imagine a system alongside it that encourages people not to allow a bot to take their place. A Disconnect penalty.
Sound confused? I am too.
All of a sudden that hook suicide looks pretty tempting.
0 -
I sincerely do not understand what's so confusing here, and we have disconnect penalty well past bot implementation.
And it doesn't makes sense you somehow "tempted" in hook suiciding, that doesn't spawn bot too.
0 -
You’re still missing the point. I pointed it out clearly to you and you are still missing it.
Killers having anti-loop is bad for the game. It is unfun. Unfun is a reason for survivors killing themselves. I don’t know how I can make it clearer to you.
Gen regression perks are carrying the games. They are unfun to play against. Having to do 7-8 gens every game is ridiculously unfun.Tunnelling happens in the vast majority of games. It’s is unfun.
I’m in EU central. Tunnelling is really that prevalent.1 -
Because root cause of this problem is people being ######### and not some game issue.
You can't fix bad people, only thing we can do is just properly punish those people so game won't get harmed.
No, maybe some throw because they get hook first, but to some extent it's - increasingly - the game. I am one of the folks giving up when the match is lost early, though I always start playing out all matches normally no matter how bad but I usually instantly run into a long streak of bad matches where no gens pop and my teammates just get massacred and I finally want a good one again so I'll take every shortcut to get out. I've been playing since 2017 and I do this only since MMR was introduced and made the game absolutely miserable for me in solo queue. Before MMR I only ever killed myself on hook to give the last teammate the chance to get hatch when I couldn't see a chance to complete the remaining gens.
There were some horribly imbalanced matches back in the old days, but overall the experience was good enough to not worry much about these matches or drop out early, it was even encouraged not to drop out and get a pip as reward to reduce the chance of getting not so good teammates. Dropped to rank 20 due to not playing for awhile? No prob, play through the low-level chaos and rank up to be back with better players after some time even if you die.
At low MMR, every match feels horribly bad, and no "take a break" does help because whenever you return, you're still at low MMR and it takes only a single match and you're reminded of why you were quitting the game. The only hope to get out of that is to survive the vast majority of your games and try that solo when most survivors around you are still learning the game or just want to mess around for fun while the killers are sweating hard.
1 -
I don't get it, are you seriously saying instantly suiciding and rerolling your teammates magically makes your MMR up?
And getting bad matches every time then blaming this is a MMR problem?
Meanwhile wrecking countless matches only for your own sake?
I honestly believe you deserves to be in that MMR range and also should take DC penalty, long one.
0 -
One hook in one minute is still perfectly fine. It's still too early to get discouraged. If you feel despair after watching what happens after that, I understand. If you haven't done any gen completion in the first place. But honestly, I don't think you have enough guts. It's not really suitable for competitive games.
If you are someone who accepts a disadvantage as impossible, or passively accepts something that should be actively made interesting as boring, you will have no chance of conquering, learning, or improving. What awaits you is to become friends with the terrible MMR.
1 -
It would be nice to implement a you cannot attempt the self unhook without certain parameters. Those of course being wicked in basement, deliverance, having a minimal percent chance of unhooking at X%, face camp meter, and final chance window before hook stage 2. (Also the in event of every survivor is hooked or downed)
These could bring a valid excuse to any attempt to unhook and mostly remove the negative intentions. Missing skill shots on stage two is an unavoidable aspect though as it is useful in situations to miss them. (Providing hatch at an advantageous time)0 -
I mean, you can just make it free second chance.
Yeah it would make survivors unhook here and there but like who cares, it's not reliable anyway and slippery meat might become meta but game can adapt with other aspect.
0 -
The DCs are okay, because survivors will be replaced by bots. I will take that any time for a self-kill, as killer and survivor. I just feel bad when one kills themselves on hook. It is bad for the whole match, it is not fun to play anymore. But as killer, this happens so often and I do not have the time to play so many matches, that I can waste half of my freetime in matches, where I dont do my challenge or whatever, because I want to be nice to the rest of the survivors.
1 -
I've seen a couple of opinions that favours killing yourself on hook because the match cannot be turned around. As a counter argument however, most times when a survivor does this, we've been able to complete 4 generators and even all the generators if there is a bot helping. It is not because you perceive the match as wasted that the match is over by any means. I think some people blame the MMR system too quickly and their only motivation in playing is winning. You can't play solo queue and expect your game to be flawless or more often than not in you favour.
1
