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Is Blight's hug teching confirmed to be removed?
Does the hitbox collision improvement confirm that hug tech will be removed with it?
If so, is this a good change?
I'm conflicted on removing things that increase skill ceilings and promote skill expression. Yes, Blight is dominant, especially the good ones that can utilize hug tech to get hits at almost every pallet, but do we really want to lower skill ceilings?
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yes
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They said it does somewhere.
And i agree with you. Only really top tier blights were doing hug tech. And only top tier survivors were going against blights using hug tech. In your average game, the blight doesn't even know what hug tech is let alone how to do it. So it wasn't really hurting the average player.
What they did was remove a high kill expression on a killer that would otherwise have very little (yay so he just gets to dash around, you'll never hit anyone with him anymore, may as well just play billy)
It boggles the mind why they continue to nerf these types of things, while all the "survivor techs" are continuously staying in the game, and while nurse continues to exist in the state she is in since her inception. And i say this as a nurse main.
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A shame quite honestly. I feel there's a lot of skill expression being removed from the game
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It really is a shame. Skill expression can already feel pretty minimal in this game with the way maps, pallets and powers are designed. Removing things such as this only neuter a players potential and ceiling. Why punish the players who have spent hundreds and thousands of hours perfecting their favorite killer?
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Yes it is and thank god for that.
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Care to explain why?
If you are going against blights hug teching, you are probably high MMR, meaning you should be able to deal with it. Do you see blights winning constantly in comp, because it certainly isn't happening as much as say a nurse does.
If you are average MMR, you aren't going against blights who even know what hug teching is. Or if they do, they do it poorly.
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Yes, It is a huge win. Hug tech is just disgusting and you get hit even when you win the mind game often times.
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Because it was some of the most annoying ######### to go up against when it did happen as it felt like BS hits.
It's not skill expression, it's just exploiting a bug that was always unintentional.
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horay to no more hug teching!
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Bug or not you can’t deny that it’s skill expression. It’s not something your average player can just pick up and immediately do. It takes dozens if not hundreds of hours to perfect. Especially learning the tiles you can properly pull them off on. There’s so much nuance and depth that hug teching added to Blight. Whether it feels cheap or not you can’t deny it added to his skill ceiling.
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Actually i can deny it, because regardless of how long it takes to master it, it's still exploiting something that was never intentional which allowed Blight players to get unfair hits that Survivors have little to no chance of dodging, meaning there's no mind gaming or counterplay involved to it depending on how good you were at doing it.
Genuinely could not be more happy that it's gone and i hope Wesker's techs are next.
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Im guessing that heal tech, point tech, and cj techs are all unskilled bug exploits too?
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No idea what those are but if they gave players an unfair advantage over the other side, then yes i will say they are.
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Perhaps we can put our differences aside, to agree on this one. Because I certainly do agree.
It has always been nothing more than a bug. Understanding an exploit doesn't change the fact that it is an exploit, something that was never meant to be in the game. It is good they are removing it.
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Only point I want to actively disagree with is Hug Tech blights are only going against top tier survivors. I've see quite a few Blights (not all) use hug tech and I assure you I am no top tier survivor but instead very very average.
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If you are average you are definitely not going against people intentionally hug teching. Average players are getting nurses who have < 50% kill rate. Average players are massively losing to killers like the pig because they don't know how to deal with traps.
So either:
- You aren't going against blights who hug tech effectively and just think you are.
- The blights you are going against aren't hug teching on purpose and don't know what they are doing
- You are not as "average" as you think you are, and are actually going against pretty good blights
Perhaps you are better than you think you are, and are in the bottom of the top MMR bracket. I have a whole post talking about why people who are there are going to have worse games due to matchmaking.
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I’d wait with such a statement until the actual blights get their hands on it. For all we know they’re gonna discover another smooch tech, wind turbine tech or lagtech 2.0.
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Somebody with some sense. Very much an L decision by BHVR. Blight is going to be much more boring. “Oh man I can’t wait to play this loop with the same bump logic over and over and over.” Hug tech is what kept blight fun and unique.
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Probably one of the few things we can agree on, there is no mind gaming involve, no counterplay and the better a player is at utilizing it, the harder it is for the other side to do anything about it.
DBD is not like other games, there is a fine line when it comes to fair and unfair and if there is nothing the other side can do about it outside of just being lucky, then it isn't healthy for the game and should be changed regardless of how long it takes people to exploit it to it's full potential.
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Havent heard that one before…
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Hopefully it's not replaced by equally annoying exploits. And they should fix Oni's flick exploit while they're at it.
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So yall just wanna get rid of all skill expression yea?
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Skill expression begins to die when a game grows past a certain point. If a game becomes more PvP oriented, it becomes less expressive in skill.
Dbd is experiencing both of these imo. No longer the party game they based it on, its grown to people complaining about the party aspects. They want it a sweaty pvp comp game.
Its strange, I love this game and want it to be better. But every patch is something to be down about, changes that make no sense, etc. I just don't understand it anymore and it feels more bad than good. Factorio has been pulling me more than Dbd lately. And thats strange to me lol.
I'd love it if BHVR sold dbd to another studio. Its an RNG crap shoot if it would be better, but I'd convinced BHVR doesn't have the capacity to keep this game fresh now thats its this big. They have talent is all areas except design, and its just frustrating.
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Probably one of the few things we can agree on, there is no mind gaming involve, no counterplay and the better a player is at utilizing it, the harder it is for the other side to do anything about it.
Precisely.
In Blight's case it is already surprising just how long it took for it to actually be fixed, considering it was never intended to begin with. Blight is already an extremely powerful killer, allowing him to get hits where he clearly shouldn't thanks to an exploit isn't fair and, as you've said, shouldn't be here.
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I’m sorry but no mind gaming and no counterplay is simply just not true at all
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As a follow up are you using average to describe the majority of players in the game or average as a skill level because this might be a semantics issue on my end.
Any survivor who doesn't know what a pig trap is or is getting baby Nurses is more a beginner in my book and not even close to average skill.
If you're using average as a description of the overall playerbase then I can actually agree with you to a degree.
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Ugh…
Man you always seem to have the answer to everything ever. Neither side of this disagreement can prove jack. You're just tossing out your thoughts, and wrapping them as facts.
Should we continue? I feel your posts are always trying to just stir a pot into getting a thread closed. Maybe Im wrong, but to recap @ohheyitsbobcat , If you are an average player, you absolutely aren't seeing good blights, you're losing to Pig traps, MASSIVELY btw, all because you have no idea how to deal with them. These are facts. Dispute them with @Reinami please.
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I am using average as in the description of the player base. Because any time i say anything about how nurse is the only viable killer at high mmr the response i get back is: "those survivor players are rare, the average player isn't experiencing this".
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Its a bit disingenuous to think i'm trolling, or i'm "trying to get a thread closed"
This is just a civil discussion here, disagreements are allowed to exist.
To address the concern itself:
I mean, the data doesn't lie.
These stats are the "average player experience". So based on this. Do you think that:
- Skull merchant is the most overpowered killer in the game
- Sadako is the second best killer in the game
- Freddy is one of the best
- Pig is one of the best
- Nurse is one of the worst killers in the game
- SWF only escape 3% more often than solo players
Either you think all of those things are true at all levels, or you realize that this is looking at all games played (and thus heavily sampling what we call the "average" player)
Further, looking at that data, blight has a 59% kill rate. So, are we saying that the "average" blight needs a nerf?
There are basically 2 things that can be true and both are mutually exclusive. You either balance the game around top players, or you balance around average players.
If you balance around top players, you basically need to nerf nurse, blight, and then MASSIVELY BUFF every single other killer.
If you balance around average players, why are we nerfing blight?
I think that is the main point i'm making here.
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No, I want killer mechanics to have their intended turn rate limits not be exploitable for easy hits. If a survivor made it to a safe area and turned a corner around a wall in time, you don't deserve a hit by throwing your mouse across the room, changing your dpi on the fly, or pointing your camera up to break intended turn rate limits. That is not skill expression. That is an exploit. It has been stated as such multiple times over the course of 2-3 years and they are finally fixing it. This is good.
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Okay, then I can actually agree with you a bit and this was a semantics mistake on my part.
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easy hits? An Oni that can consistently and successfully pull off 180’s is rare. You sir need to go play some of these killers you want to nerf.
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When you've been oppressive and OP for so long, balance feels unfair. Oh well.
I'm not totally heartless, i just think it's better for the game in the long run. Worse killers have been treated worse than Blight.
Blight is just a net negative to player retention.
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Hugtech had to go. There was definitely mastery for it, but the hugtech had a low skill floor that was more than enough to do the job. After some thought however, I do think his flicks should stay though because they allow skill expression for both sides and they're extremely satisfying to pull off and outplay.
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the data doesn't lie.
But it doesn't tell you the full picture, either. Balancing the game around the average experience, which the vast majority of the community experiences, doesn't mean you are being guided by numbers alone.
You have to look at things individually, carefully analyze each and every thing in this game to see whether or not they require changes. Skull Merchant, for instance, only has the highest kill rate in the game because players tend to suicide on hook against her.
As a Freddy main, I could try and explain why his kill rate is high, but the fact will remain that he has been in need of a "dework", if I may put it that way, for over four years. Nurse ignores everything in the game, but her kill rate is a bit low because she takes time to master.
In order to balance the game, these things have to be taken into consideration. Without context, data is useless.
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They (BHVR) don't think of this as the big nerf that everyone is talking about. It's listed as a minor change.
Aside from that I remember back in the day a dbd dev that i don't want to name because its nothing that should be taken personally and people often do and have posted mean things about this dev in the past. Said that freddy is the most skillful killer because the top 1% of freddy players outperformed the top 1% of nurse players (im pretty sure this was back when freddy slowdown addons existed) but this was also at a time when it was super easy to cheat infinite BPs
For context. you used to be able to cut your PCs access to the internet and all the game would do is not let you progress past the main menu while the game was open then cheat engine in as many bps as you wanted and connect to the internet again. I never did this hence why I haven't got every killer P3 and legacy Portraits but i know people did.
So in fact the data lied then because the top 1% of freddys could just slow every game to a halt and people didn't want to play it and they just turned their brains to soup against him. The data has lied in the past and as @GeneralV post shows is that its not something that can be taken at fact value today as still.
The people in this post understand the point you are making but still I think you have a distorted view of the average player because you are trusting that data at face value too much.
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I'm not sure how anyone can believe hug teching was ever better than just playing blight at majority of tiles. Saying it lacked counter play is like openly admitting ignorance.
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It was fun to watch a good blight do it though.
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Rare seems like a reach. I face them all the time, so it's expected at this point. IMO the only thing keeping oni in top 10 is the unintended flicks.
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We all know matchmaking in this game is pretty dire. While it didn't happen -that- often, I do occasionally get matched with blights who can hug tech well and I'm awful as survivor.
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That same dev also thinks (thought?) that pallet freddy was stronger than trap freddy.
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I love seeing all the boosted survivors cheer for hugteching being removed because they don't know how to counter it. Is hugtech strong? Yes. Does it require a TON of skill, gamesense, and practice to get good with. YES. As someone who plays Killer/Survivor 40/60, I can tell you that blight is probably one of the hardest killers to master right next to huntress. If you are getting beat by a blight, its not because blight is "op". Its because they practiced for tens, hundreds, or even thousands of hours.
If you are somehow getting into lobbies where the blights can hug tech well enough to down you and make you whine, go on the forums, and complain, then you probably are in a high MMR lobby and shouldn't be there.2 -
about time , now can we go back to good old days were this KILLER was actually fair and fun for both sides in terms of strength i was soo bored of seeing hug tech on 99% of blight players since this exploit was found by the community.
¡¡¡PINBALL GAMEPLAY IS BACK BABY!!!
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Just wanted to clarify that the PTB is for testing, and things may still be adjusted, changed, or omitted before going live.
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A 60/40 killer survivor split but you think Huntress is as difficult to master as Blight? And that this killer isn’t overpowered—it’s just a skill issue? Yikes.
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I would absolutely DIE if y’all decided to omit the changes and make hug tech basekit. 💀
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I think it has been well over a year since DS was nerfed, and I really had wished that BHVR would have thought of SOMETHING to discourage survivors from weaponizing DS, but instead, BHVR is changing DS back to 5 seconds, and killers will once again need to deal with survivors that want to punish a killer even if the killer isn't tunneling?
The conspicuous action nerf didn't stop survivors from getting healed, then running straight for the killer to try to aggressively bodyblock them. Let's be real here, DS was never a problem when it was being used as an actual anti-tunnel perk. The issues with DS were 100% based on survivors that wanted to weaponize it.
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I mean it says master, if you put everything that would go into mastering both characters I think they come pretty close in terms of difficulty to perform high level tactics map knowledge ect.
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The learning curve for Blight is much greater. Huntress doesn’t require the same degree of skill expression, and there are even ranged killers who require more skill than her (they don’t have the unusually large hitboxes Huntress gets). Like I can’t believe this is an argument.
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Theatre of Magic homebrew mod looks weird, pinside would not approve.
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