Onryo is so weak and boring
Onryo main here…. or former Onryo main at least..
She is just so weak in pubs now. I understand that she isn't a brainless spam TV power which I appreciate. But her only power (TV's) are so map dependent that she basically has no power outside of that. She is almost as weak as Freddy right now… Why did you gut her so much? Give her a chase power? I love this killer so much and it pains me that I am so reliant on perks to even have a chance when so many maps and their RNG are against an M1 killer like Onryo.,
As much as I could suggestion someting with the TV's as a solution, I would rather propose a chase power. Make it more fun to chase survivors. Maybe something like a static instant teleport 5 m closer or something on demand with a cooldown. I dont know. There has to be some better ideas. She is worse than so much of the killer roster and every other killer has gotten massive buffs.
The sad part is when I have an advantage of winning when playing Onryo, I have to slug a lot…. that's not fun
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She's been changed so much over last year yet thing she needed most was chase power no one gave her, only thing we got was reyko's watch basekit which is great but still not enough
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She’s good against people who don’t shut off TVs. (Newbs) it’s easier than ever now for a survivor to shut down her TVs and cleanse with their one second interaction.
Her condemn is suppose to be a slowdown however it’s ineffective against most teams due to the counter being so easy for them.
She’s definitely weaker for sure. This current version just isn’t clicking.6 -
I mean she uses some kind of supernatural powers that she can use from afar. Maybe give her the ability to break palettes from 2-3 meters away through walls without letting her move while doing it. It would make interessting 50/50 for some situations or if you guess it you could just run.
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That would be neat. :)
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As a guy who enjoys playing Onryo I say she’s perfectly fine as is and doesn’t need any changes as far as Ik. She’s finally in a healthy spot that doesn’t feel brain dead.
her lack of a chase power is perfectly compensated by having insane map mobility and built in slowdown.
Idk where you got the idea where she’s “map dependent” because her TV’s being next to every generator eliminates any Map rng since she can just teleport to every gen or at least close to a generator if the tv is off. The map rng you have to worry about is loops and to that you just play the game and try to outplay the survivor by cutting around loops and mind gaming all of which is just standard m1 stuff that people apparently don’t like to do. Onryo’s mind gaming is arguably better than most killers cause she can just phase in and out when using her manifestation.
I personally like to use her Teleport movement bonus to cut off survivors and end chases hella quick and it’s fun to come up in front of them suddenly slap them from the massive speed boost and while teleporting I also give survivors condemn and they may or may not need to leave gens regardless slowdown is slowdown and if I catch them with a tape then they will end up having stacks that will eventually lead to a condemn kill if their not careful.
Regardless her teleport is fun and manifestation mind games are fun so perhaps the killer is just not your type or you’re just not being creative enough with how you play.
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I don't play her too much, but i agree with this.
I feel like she is good against average players, but against good swf… not the best, but not the worst killer either.
I wish take a tap will be more scary thing to do, but average Kate will die from Condemn every game and then come here and act like this killer has no counterplay "nerf she is op".
So yeah, she is nowhere near as awful as current Freddy.1 -
I played the first version and you could do those things far better back then. The only thing that was worse, which was manageable, were the Tv cooldowns.
If you play against good survivors, who normally deactivate all your TVs, you got nothing. Back then taking a tape was a huge risk and you had your TVs always, because of that. This gave you the upper hand about your mobility and condemned. Then also your position wasn‘t given away by TV auras. This made playing against this killer feel like in a horror movie. Now take tape → no mobility, no curse. The counterplay is far too easy. I would much more prefer having a difficult to apply curse than an easy to denie one only as slowdown.
I don‘t dislike the buffs she got, but her mechanics: how tapes, TVs and condemned worked should have stayed the same.
Post edited by jonifire on6 -
Perfectly said my friend. I agree completely
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Her lack of chase, no anti loop is not perfectly compensated by her mobility especially not her slowdown. Average survivors keep the TVs off killing both aspects most importantly your slow down.
Not to mention the survivors have the easiest killer interaction in the game of a whomping 1 second giving her 0 counter play especially since they can do this in chase and still get away. It’s not healthy at all.
Lets not even talk about her addons….
Or her lackluster stealth countered by a lullaby and if that doesn’t catch the survivors attention the Visual Terror Radius will….
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She is pretty much worst stealth killer (beside freddy I guess?) with nonexistent power that can just be disabled by survivors for free.
So yeah, calling her "fine" would be overestimation.
No antiloop, No teleport against meaningful location, and no condemn thanks to not having tv near survivors, she really have nothing, at all.
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I used to main her after she had been buffed, she was solid and competitive. Now she’s trash and unviable unless you’re just playing against bad or low mmr survivors that don’t know what they’re doing. Really hope they aren’t leaving her in this pitiful state or all her reworks were a waste of time.
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Sad to say but I would 💯 agree. After spending the last couple of months of using this new reworked version this just doesn’t work.
Counterplay for survivors is too easy making condemn non threatening and mobility crap.
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When we are starting to compare her to Freddy after a few reworks within 7 months time that’s the Devs queue to take this to the drawing board to be corrected.
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maybe so but I personally never played against something like that or if I have I probably haven’t really noticed cause I just take the chases. If their turning off all the tv’s then their just casually getting stacks if I catch them with a tape then I just chase them till their down if they just run to a tv to put it in then that’s a free hook state for me but it’s kinda ridiculous that all 4 survivors will go to all the tvs to turn them off that sounds unrealistic and a perfectly bad scenario for the Onryo player that will rarely happen
it’s not perfect per say and I definitely feel survivors should be more punished for holding a tape in some way but as it is for me it’s not that bad from my experience
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it has been months with no changes. I have already accepted her current state as final state until new information is given. she is really unfun to play right now.
I was one of the first players to say that this version will not succeed. everyone else just told me that this version was good. healthy direction. I just don't see it.
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I had a feeling it wouldn’t be either to be honest. I was happier we were getting close to OG sadako.
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You just need to turn off tv near gens, no need to "turn off all tv" because any tvs that is farther than 16m is might as well not exist.
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being closer has only been made her weaker. I personally don't enjoy going against current sadako or 1.0 Sadako. only 2.0 version was interesting to play against as survivor for me and interesting to play as.
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It is honestly like giving the survivors auras of trappers traps with a visual indicator… after that shes literally just an M1 killer. Maybe if she was way more stealth like Wraith she would stand a chance… They need to buff her.. Buff her chase, and buff her stealth please.
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That’s fair. I enjoyed 1.0 and 2.0 the most. I really loved the passive condemn tapes a lot. Old yoichis fishing net lol heh. That’s just me. I’m hooked on it lol no pun intended.
2.0 was interesting. I just hated the cooldowns0 -
Imagine hearing a map wide sound when dredge teleports and seeing in which locker he teleports from a mile away with a aura. Oh well then you would have Sadako.
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The first Tv doesn‘t give any stack , which leaves you when they are split up with only 3 of 7 TVs (0stacks on each) and by then you could play basically any M1 killer.
Survivors don‘t run around and deactivate TVs in low mmr, it is more in the higher mmr. I‘m not playing too serious with her, therefore I‘m currently in a lower mmr and it is just not fun playing a noob stomper. When I’m finally back in a higher mmr this killer feels miserable to play since they just split up on gens and you got no TV to teleport to (only the ones where no one is).
In the first version she was fair since condemned was more difficult to apply and she also didn‘t have her TVs constantly shut down, because of passive condemned. With all the buffs she got the first version would be extremely good and fair (when playing for condemned or when playing her as teleport killer)
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I think OG Sadako with all the buffs she got with the reworks would be very strong, fair and fun. The thing most people complained about were the TV cooldowns and maybe that the condemned range should be a bit bigger.
My only problems with 2.0 were tp cooldowns and people constantly shutting of TVs to counter global condemneed (which is currently the same problem)
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That's what I'm getting worried of. I feel like they're slowly removing the fun from certain killers and dwindling the roster of killers I enjoy playing. My recent casualties being Onryo and Pig, both of which I used to play a ton. I even had my over 100 win streak on Pig still going.
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I also agree with this as well my friend. That was one of my favorite thing about sadako 1.0 is it made people think twice about grabbing a cursed video tape and it should. It’s a cursed object. Therefore more TVs to teleport to more ways to spread condemn.
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At least pigs stealth and ambush got buffed and they reverted the timer nerf 😊
I also used my ears for the boxes anyways so the auras didn’t bother me if I don’t get to see them.Pig I think is still good. Sadako, on the other hand, is a different story. She’s all twisted up in design. Now she’s weak.
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this could been easily adjusted. lowering cooldown on TV from survivor and killer would reduce downtime TV's being turned off. The tp cooldown should been condemn cooldown in which they did get right on 3.0 but it was on the on wrong version of the killer. The mobility would be untouched, the condemn build-up would work same way. maybe nerf condemn build-up to lesser degree like 0.5 condemn/1 second per tape break if it was unbalanced.
OG sadako wasn't good. it was same problem that current sadako has. There is virtually no counter-play towards spamming televisions because TV spawn near gens and survivor need to do gens to escape. The reason why problem isn't apparent is because tapes & TV's are ultra-broken in favor of survivor. this is very evident when you play Sadako on Elementary Midwich with Videotape copy add-on. It is just TP→TP→TP→TP and everyone condemn in like <3 minutes with 18 meter radius. The mechanic is beyond absurd. The OG sadako did not experience this problem because of 100 second TV cooldown. You had to run iri-tape which reset 4 televisions. Technically the problem was still there but it was based around killer getting hits which was mildly more balanced this version.
2.0 Sadako was genius design. This was because survivor had counter-play tool where they could render the mechanic ineffective and killer had a mechanic to manipulate said counter-play in their favor. Survivor that looped well and held tapes had no trouble defeating her in an average match and survivor that played the m1 game poorly quickly got killed. The mechanic was still a little rough on edges but the overall concept was brilliant. they took a cool concept and deleted it. Indoor maps, it is too strong and in outdoor maps, the killer is worthless vs good teams.
Pig is less accessible in my opinion. She can still do same gameplay as before but it takes more effort. Onryo on other hand is changed. you can't use any of your 1.0 Onryo experience or 2.0 Onryo experience to win. She's m1 killer in normal maps and almost free win in muti-floor indoor maps.
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I still think she's trash tier even on multi floor indoor maps. Tapes are too easy for it to matter.
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In my opinion one of the biggest issues with her is how the past 2 reworks have punished survivors for not turning off TVs, rather than punishing them for taking a cursed tape and turning them off.
Her release version survivors didn't want to get cursed by watching the video/taking the tape so they'd only do it if they had high condemn or wanted to deny her mobility. This worked out perfectly fine since it allowed Onryo to have good map pressure to make up for her weak chase power.
However the reworks changed that and actively encourage turning off her TVs. The result is that survivors now are strongly rewarded for denying her mobility along side removing her condemn pressure. This means that against good survivor teams she will have weak map pressure with an already weak chase power. And with the latest rework, condemn pressure isn't that strong against a good team that knows how to counter her.
I much prefer her release version where survivors were in the most danger after touching her tapes and getting cursed from it.
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muti-floors tv's make it so you always push people into TV's because they artificially give you global condemn radius. inserting tapes is more difficult on those maps because survivor have to path around the floors on midwich to insert the tape. She is not trash in that situation. She's trash in all other situations.
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Yes those situations help that scenario but it's still so easy to put tapes and hard to punish that I still think she's trash even if it is a "better" scenario.
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The problem of TVs being turned off would still be the same.
Skitten explains it perfect.
The good point of 1.0 was that turning off TVs was not encouraged. I can assure you most people did not play her for condemned back then, because I was a survivor main at that time. Her pick rate decreased drastically after the rework. Before 1 of 10games I saw one Sadako→ after rework 1 of 20 games.
Also 1.0 had counterplay, you could either turn of TVs in advance like now, but get 1 stack every 25s → 4 stacks after finishing the gen. Fair trade, she could still interrupt you. Or you could take a tape and remove stacks. They were not supposed to be taken as a shield.
The problem of the reworks is that she looses two powers by survivors turning off TVs and I think both reworks are really unfair. First rework very unfair for survivors and there were little they could do. The second rework actively stombs and targets noobs and is miserable for Sadako against any decent player.1 -
I put this thread here I made as well to show videos of why she is weak. If anyone has time to see it :)
I stayed up till 3am making these. Not done yet either.
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The good point of 1.0 was that turning off TVs was not encouraged. I can assure you most people did not play her for condemned back then, because I was a survivor main at that time. Her pick rate decreased drastically after the rework. Before 1 of 10games I saw one Sadako→ after rework 1 of 20 games.
that is not true. her pick-rate was always nominal at 2%.
Here's otz old pick-rate chart BEFORE she got reworked(1.0)
This is her 2.0 pick-rate before she got nerfed.
There is no stats on 3.0 Sadako but i definitely do not see her very often. The turning off TV will be the same but the degree of how much it affects you from teleporting can be severe reduced by cooldown's of survivors picking up tapes and cooldown for teleporting. For example, 30 seconds of turning off TV from survivor grabbing a tape will barely be so short that your mobility will barely be affected.
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I know this isn’t the most accurate source, but I have noticed a decrease in her pick rate and I don’t blame people.
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That’s why I love 1.0 so much. We need it back with todays buffs and QOL.
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I just wanted to say with that, that she got much rarer in my survivor rounds after the first rework. That does not mean it was the same for you.
That would make it less annoying for Sadako, but I think it would make this killer too strong. I don‘t see how you want to balance her second version and remove the problems I said. She will either be too strong or useless.
I think the best way would be to give her a global condemned addon and return her to the first version.
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That would be nice. 😊
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stats don't show that she is less popular.
She will either be too strong or useless.
how can condemn be too strong when holding the tape disables condemn mechanic?
I don‘t see how you want to balance her second version and remove the problems I said.
I just explained it. her tp mobility will not have a cooldown. instead the cooldown is condemn. This means that you can use your mobility as much as you want. This was something implemented in 3.0 version then it was removed. BVHR implemented change on wrong iteration of the killer.
when survivor grab a tape, the TV turns off for 70 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds. 30 second is very short cooldown so much so that survivors taking tapes will barely impact her mobility because TV will turn on so quickly.
The current 3.0 Sadako verges on edge of being too potent in midwich and too weak on most other maps.
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Okey that could work. Most people would probably still ignore condemned.
I would probably still prefer 1.0 personally, but your version would be fine. I‘m just not a fan of the condemned tp spam and the 2 stacks by hit when playing against 2.0 (it often snowballed me out really fast). I also like passive condemned.
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they already do. that is like only way you get any condemn kills right now vs decent player. the survivor has to purposely let themselves get mori'd.
I‘m just not a fan of the condemned tp spam and the 2 stacks by hit when playing against 2.0 (it often snowballed me out really fast).
that is why i also proposed that condemn build up is halved to 0.5 per tp and 1 stack of condemn per tape break. this is assuming that ring drawing still gives 1 condemn per heal. I would like her to be just average.
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I know they have a lot on their play but I really hope that they make some adjustments to her. I feel bad that I have been posting as much as I have on the forms lately but it’s because I’m so passionate about her and I know several people that really enjoyed this killer that had been having issues.
I don’t want other people to suffer like I have.
I was hoping behavior would be be able to see the feedback of videos I created for them to see why she is so weak. Doubtful but I thought it would be helpful0
