The Prevalence of Tunnelling?

Maybe it’s an MMR thing? The average killer might not tunnel so in average MMR it’s not common.

Low MMR killers though are less confident in their skills and probably be more likely to tunnel.

Higher MMR killers probably don’t tunnel that much either because most times they don’t need to or feel confident in their skills. Except for the times where they are going against the best of the best, but that’s pretty rare given how poor matchmaking is (and because match making is so poor higher skill killers are more likely to get paired with lower skill survivors and they generally won’t tunnel because they don’t need to)

So maybe that is it? I rarely ever see tunnelling and I think I’m probably in the average MMR range as survivor, and Scott is probably somewhere above average which could explain why he doesn’t see it at all.

However the survivors who are in lower MMR ratings might see it more frequently and that could potentially be what’s causing this difference in experiences.

The average survivor doesn’t see tunnelling that much, as shown by Scott’s data, and so they don’t talk about it because they don’t need to.However those that DO experience tunnelling are more likely to talk about it and therefore most discussion about tunnelling will be about how common it is simply because those who discuss it do experience it.

Not sure if that makes sense…

It could be an MMR thing, but it's hard to say. I will say that matchmaking seems way off when I do see hard tunneling in my games. It usually happens with a really bad killer, 1 or 2 solid survivors, and 1 or 2 really bad survivors. I usually only see hard tunneling in those instances. The killer farms the 2 bad players until they have time for the other 2 survivors to run them to Narnia and back.

Jund has a strict & myopic definition of tunneling. It’s kind of like the proxy camping vs face camping argument.

Tunneling to most people: hooking a survivor, going off to chase another survivor. The hooked survivor is unhooked. While I’m chasing another survivor I notice that unhooked survivor off doing something, so I break chase to go after them again specifically.

Tunneling to Jund: Hooking a survivor, proxy camping, then pursuing the unhooked survivor.

Both legitimate forms of tunneling but Jund appears to only consider the latter “true tunneling” and frames his poll in a way where only that definition could be used.

It's not "strict and myopic" to suggest that tunneling should be defined by "the killers intention to eliminate a survivor" as opposed to the survivors subjective experience of "getting hooked soon after being unhooked". It's the only way to differentiate between "killer instigated tunneling" and "survivor induced tunneling".

It's not always the killers intention to tunnel, or even awareness that they could be tunneling, even though the survivor feels they have been.

1. Killer hooks a survivor and leaves the hook. Looks for other survivors, finds no one. Unhook notification goes off, killer returns to the hook.

2. Killer hooks a survivor and leaves. Finds and hooks another survivor. First survivor is unhooked so killer returns to the first hook.

A. The unhooking survivor stealths away leaving the unhooked survivor injured and crying.

B. The unhooked survivor bodyblocks with a weaponised Endurance, or to 'make use' of DS.

Four combinations there to choose from, all can be interpreted as tunneling by the survivor, none of them are intentional, or with any purpose to 'eliminate a survivor early' they're simply hitting what is in front of them, and to avoid doing so would be tantamount to throwing the game, similar to if a survivor had the opportunity to complete a gen but instead decided to 'let the killer kick it and go away to leave it to regress' even if they could easily avoid it.

These are all tunneling though?

I think people need to stop bringing in morality to excuse tunneling, it should be very clear to anyone intelligent that this isn't a moral dilemma and that killer players aren't felons for wanting to play to win.

The entire point is that a recently unhooked survivor shouldn't be such an obvious choice of target for a killer who wants to win. That is the entire problem.

And only being borderline unhookable until they do something conspicuous will truly kill tunneling, obviously remove collision to prevent weaponizing it too.

Having such a narrow definition of tunneling is counterproductive because the solution needs to be broadly applicable or it's useless.

My experience is different. I play in the US East, mostly in the late afternoon up until 1 or 2am. Either it’s myself or someone else getting tunneled out ASAP by a killer with Lethal Pursuer. No body blocking by unhooked; just the killer straight breaking off chase to return to hook to get the same player he downed a moment ago. No killer following tracks to only realize it’s the unhooked and might as well down them again. It’s just blatant clear as day tunneling. Rinse and repeat for 3rd down. Killer has to get that first survivor found, out the game ASAP. No wonder so many survivors run Distortion and Off the Record.

Some people call tunneling to things which are not tunneling. Tunneling is actively looking for the unhooked survivor to down him again.

• Being unhooked and the killer seeing you again before other survivors and hooking you again is not tunneling, he just saw you again.
• Using the endurance effect to protect the survivor who unhooked you. Well, it is tunneling, but it is the most deserved form tunneling.
• Some people even call tunneling when hooking you again before hooking the other three survivors before. Usually if you just hooked one person before hooking them again.

No, if you are not actively looking for the unhooked survivor after he has been unhooked is not tunneling, you have seen him again. I'm not going to ignore the first survivor I see after a hook just because he is the same I hooked recently.

Direct tunneling to me is hard focusing one surv until they are sacrificed or otherwise dead, to the exclusion of all else. Number of gens done is irrelevant in this case.

An example is being in chase, and immediately dropping it to return to the unhook, then follow the unhooked through any endurance/bodyblock/etc. and down & re-hook. Repeat until dead. This would include not really patrolling gens or commiting to a chase, once that unhook occurs.

Now I feel many believe the killer immediately going back to the unhook is tunneling, whether the rescuer defends that surv or not. And that action of the killer stopping what they're doing and returning to the unhook (often strategically and/or tactically correct) happens most of the time during regular gameplay. In my experience of course.

Obviously region and MMR and time of day all are interconnected as to who sees this type of tunneling frequently, as does all other forms of tunneling. But it's that feeling of being focused that sticks with survs the most, just like really bad matches will too.

So what we're talking about here is an emotional response, plus definitions that are all over the place. Good luck sorting that out.

I agree with Scott on this.

Lets boil this down to basics; why do people dislike being tunneled? Because people dislike dying when it feels unfair. But what exactly is unfair about that first scenario? survivor got unhooked, they presumably got healed back to full, and they are now progressing in the match again, either by doing gens or being altruistic going for saves.

Personally, I only dislike getting tunneled off hook in the second scenario because it means that I have started my second or third chase at a disadvantage. I am injured, the killer knows where I recently was and I might be out of position. If I got put in the basement, it becomes very difficult for me to get out of that basement without giving the killer a free hit, so I am under more pressure.

Survivors get 3 chases minimum to avoid death, but if you were able to get fully healed and then put yourself back in the match, it doesn't really seem like tunneling to me. I can see how it might feel unfair because your 3 chases came before everyone elses, but that would happen in a 12 hook game as well for who ever died first.

I think there's nuance there, still. Sometimes you see the last surv you hooked again first because that surv is just way worse than the rest of their team. I'll try to avoid hooking them again when this happens, but at a certain point you can only ignore a person so much when their ass is always the one that's out.

As for the topic in general, my experiences matches Scott's - five years in the game at just about every MMR level and I simply have never seen hard tunneling at remotely close to the rate so many describe. And not just in my games, but the games I watch being streamed. I just don't see it. I'll have days where I might see it 4 times out of 5 games, but those days are massive outliers.

And I do think that this is largely because people have such wildly different definitions of tunneling. And definitions aren't like feelings - not all of them are valid. I've been accused of it when I've hooked two (and even three) other survs between times I hooked the accusing party, just because I did it quickly. How do you even regard something like that?

I feel like many people just feel like that if they aren't left alone for a certain amount of time, that they're being tunneled, regardless of what else is going on. Really oppressive killers will feel like they are omnipresent, and always on you, even if they're hooking everyone. I think that is why high mobility killers seem to be accused of it the most (though I think many Blight players also sweaty goobers who tunnel by design, which makes it feel like all Blights tunnel) It sucks to be on the receiving end of that, but it is what it is.

And I also agree with Scott in that I think that many people who are saying that they are "always" being tunneled are telling on themselves for being bad without being self-aware about it.

And just because it was brought up earlier, surv players who actually pay attention know when their teammates are being tunneled. It's not often a case of survs thinking tunneling isn't happening because it isn't happening to them. If one of your teammates just died and no one else has been hooked, you don't need an advanced degree to sort out that tunneling is going on.

I don't think there's a problem with someone wanting to tunnel in the game, the killer has to play with all the resources he has available, it's even funny that there are killers who say the game is stronger for surv but don't want to tunnel, it's in the game, use it

What I don't like is when killer complains when devs create anti tunnel features, but this helps killers to tunnel whenever they want, but they need to accept the consequences of doing this

The word "tunneling" is a reference to "tunnel vision" which is term that means focusing only in one thing and ignoring everything else, so if you are not actively focusing an objetive but by chance you see the objetive again and hook him/her then you are not tunneling, it is as simple as that, it is not debatable because that is the definition of the term itself.

@Reinami had a good suggestion a while back,

One notable thing Scott did not take into account, that I saw, was OTHER people being tunneled.

I, personally, get tunneled somewhat often. Not every game, not infrequently. I imagine it has something to do with P100 and not being good lol.

HOWEVER, I see tunneling more frequently than that. I might not know the nuance, but three hooks on one player before anyone else gets hit is a pretty easy case to solve.

Which one?

• The bandaid fix of "just remove survivor collision"
• The share hook states one
• The completely rework the game one