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It takes forever for killers to catch survivors using exhaution perks W to other side of the map.
This is what the map I have in mind when I heard it.
Comments
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I agree that chasing survivors that hold W as soon as they see you is really annoying, but I am not sure what other kind of point is being made here.
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W key is when survivors start running as soon as they hear the terror radius/ or see the killer. If you start running when I round the corner 8 meters away that is NOT W keying. For example I’m playing Huntress on RPD and all survivors have Lithe/ Sprint Burst and when I get to a Gen with progress the scratch marks are already fading away, I catch up to them after running for 40 seconds unable to use hatchets pretty much until I get really close and then they Lithe at a window and I have to do it all over again. It’s rare that I go against it but when I do I usually just DC because it is very boring to go against. But it is a very common problem at high MMR, that’s why Kyto says he doesn’t like playing DBD anymore.
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Is this saying survivors underestimate how much time hold w wastes or? I'm not sure the point.
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Ah, I wish every tiles were TL so at least I could try to hit them without dropping pallet or had to cycle around (which results in them going for another tile)
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I'm not sure what they cooking..but let them cookkkk!!!!
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I remember the days when people would run Object of Obsession on Midwich. It would take 30 - 40 seconds just to start a chase since the surv runs in a rectangle away from you.
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Whats the matter 60%+ kill rates aren't enough for you? Need more?
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Garden of Pain.
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So play any of the numerous killers that can catch up to survivors instantly.
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Killrate is not the same as Winrate.
If you played 5 games, you could get a 4k in your first two matches, only 2 kills in your next match and then only 1 kill in your last two matches. You still killed 60% of survivors, but you only really won 2 games out of 5.5 -
Killer is stronger than swf, Killer is stronger than solo queue but you still need more buffs to killer.
Is that what I am getting from that word salad?
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Can you explain what you mean by word salad? All I did was point out that winrate is not the same thing as killrate. Its not my fault you don't understand ratios and percentages.
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So I will take a stab and say yes. You are asking for the easiest and strongest role to be even easier and stronger.
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I made it easier to understand now!
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No…I am not sure where you are getting that conclusion from. Tell me where you somehow came to that conclusion when I was just pointing out how you can calculate winrate?
Here, let me give you another example.
You play 5 games as killer. You get 3 kills in four matches, but no kills in your fifth match.
You encountered 20 survivors overall, you killed 12 of them, so your killrate is 60%.
You won four out of five matches. So your winrate as killer is 80%.
Can you understand what I am trying to spell out to you now? Literally the same killrate as before, but this time the winrate was drastically different.4 -
Save your keystrokes, friend.
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Yes, I do not need to read another word salad.
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Thanks
The funny thing is, some maps are actually like that, depends on how tiles exists
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Only downside to shift W is running into your teammates on gens and the killer goes for them.
That's why WoO and Bond are (almost needed and) so strong in solo Q.
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Yeah… after writing that out I realised I am just wasting my own time.
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You are just showing you don't understand mathematics, its okay a lot of people struggle with it.
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I understand mathematics perfectly well. 60% kill rate means 60% of survivors will die on average over many games in a set period of time.
That means that killer is easier and survivor is harder. More killer buffs on the way which means that the 60% number will only increase.
Yet here is another post asking for the kill rate to increase.
I am suprise :O
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I pointed out that with a fixed killrate of 60%, your winrate as killer can vary drastically, from as high as an 80% winrate, to a low of 50% winrate,
It is not my problem that you do not understand how data works, but go ahead and continue claiming I am somehow arguing for killer buffs. And I do not think the killrate should go any higher than 60%, that would make the win/loss ratio even more insane.4 -
I understand how data works. Like I said 60% Kill rate means that most of the time survivors will die and most of the time killer will kill.
That means that killer is baby mode easy and survivor is horrible.
Yet you want the kill rate to increase even more.
Simple.
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Oh look it’s Azarov’s!
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Nightlight stats show us that win rate closely follows kill rate, differences range from 5% to 8% less than the kill rate. As it stands, queuing up as killer, you have statistically more chance to win than if you queued up as survivor. With that in mind, I'd suggest the devs to try lowering their targeted kill rate to something like 55% or so.
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That escalated fast.
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And completely friendly fire
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Yeah, "Hold W" is one of those terms that gets thrown about as though you just hold forward and somehow waste a minute of the killer's time. You can sprint past one loop, but you're likely gonna have to play the next one.
I believe they're suggesting that the effectiveness of holding w to the other side of the map is overstated.
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I like this
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yeah, let's completely ignore the fact that hook suicides, throwing matches, SWFs playing simply to annoy the killer without the goal of advancing the match and various other non-balance related factors exist.
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The difference is MUCH LESS than 5%. At the moment, Nightlight's winrate is ~56.9%, while killrate is 56.6%.
That's a difference of 0.3%.
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No the undertone is clearly asking for a nerf to exhaustion perks because they do the job theyre made to do... Some of the time.
I've long since unequipped lithe because it makes no difference most of the time. The mentality of 'I'm not getting my down quick enough' is not one devs should listen to imo.
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Yes! You got it!
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my only problem with EXT perks is the fact that i play nemesis, and nemesis gives survivors basekit auto dead hard every chase (pls bhvr help him😫)
also, imagine playing pyhead on that straight line map lmao
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Yeah that’s what I thought. Completely disagree.
I saw somewhere where someone had calculated roughly how much time it would take if every single hit the survivors just held w and nothing else for an entire match. The result was actually almost having all the gens completed. I absolutely do not think the effectiveness is overstated.
If you’ve gone against swf that just tell each other you’re coming and you see them pre running a mile ahead of time you’re gonna lose 20 seconds in literal walk time at the bare minimum. This isn’t even accounting for an exhaustion perk or looping. 20x3=60, so 60 seconds of gen time given just to catch up with them, before account for anything else. That’s wild.
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Against a good amount of killers, holding W is the easiest thing you can do to extend your chase duration. Against a basic 4.6 m/s M1 killer, if you run in a straight line away from them, they only gain 0.6 metres per second on you. If they haven't started a chase, they won't even get blood-lust for a good while.
Assuming that the killer is 20 metres away when you start running (which is very generous, seeing as you can run as soon as your visual TR lights up for around 30-32 metres), that means it would take approx 34 seconds just to get in range to hit you. That is more than a third of gen progress. And that is just to get in range to hit you, if you are healthy the killer still needs to down you afterwards. after 34 seconds of straight sprinting, you would have covered a distance of 136 metres. Bear in mind, the largest realms in the game have a maximum length of 176 metres, so for most maps that you can see the killer, you will be able to get to any main building or tile most of the time.
This is why it is important as Killer to not make it so obvious which way you are approaching from, and why SWF is really strong, because SWFs can call out your position and plan a course of action that is safest for them. It is also a reason why map mobility is so strong for killers, as anything you can do to close the distance on a survivor is less time you waste just getting in range to hit them.
I had a solo survivor match against a trapper where we just destroyed him even though he had a 3 gen. We didn't step in any traps because we were just avoiding grass running in a straight line away from the gens anytime we heard his TR. He eventually ran out of kicks to regress and there was basically next to nothing he could do.2 -
34sec x 4m/s is 136 meters in straight line. Is this the map you're talking about?
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These are the map sizes I am talking about, under Map Sizes:
I am not actually arguing that Holding W needs to be nerfed, but let us all keep the facts straight rather than building a strawman.
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Have you seen midwich, RPD, lerys and all that maps
basically, yes
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First. Killers saying it takes 34sec to catch a survivor 20m ahead of you
20m of distance / 0.6m of closing the gaps = 33.3sec
Completely forget there is Lung speed (175% speed on 0.8sec). Which cut down 2.3m. By this alone would cut the time down by 3.8sec. Means its not 33.3 (for some reason you round up by 0.7 but not round down by 0.3), but rather 29.5sec
So the next time when you calculate the time it takes to reach survivor, minus 3.8sec for the Lung. You dont hit survivor by your hitbox overlap survivor's hitbox.
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You are kind of missing the forest for the trees.
I rounded this up for everyone's convenience, and I said it was an approximate. I am aware that 20/0.6 is 33.33… seconds. I prefer to round up rather than down for such things. And yes, I did not discuss lunges, that was intentional, because lunges and powers are very tedious to calculate. Also you got the speed wrong for lunges, it increases your movespeed to 6.9m/s for the duration, or 150% of a 4.6 killers speed. Not that it matters, because that wasn't even the point I was making.
The point is you can greatly extend your chase times by approximately 30 seconds minimum, and that is assuming you start running at 20 metres rather than as soon as you react to the TR, which being generous means you can start running when the killer is around 28-30 metres away from you. If you can see the killer outside the TR and start running as soon as the music triggers, that is around 50 seconds approximately (yes, I am rounding down by a few seconds for this, nice whole 10s number).Holding W is strong. I use it a lot, more survivors should take advantage of it if they want to win their matches.
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Two, you forget there are many obstacle in the map, its pretty much not possible unless they run at the edge of the map, and most maps have wall cut in L shape like Azarov, Asylum, Sactum .ect
Three, this is a graph showing how you actual chase survivor, not "closing distance in a single straight line"
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These survivors are so annoying on Oni how im supposed to get first hit in reasonable amount of time and they always run to strong loop too like shack. But that is probably best stragedy on survivor so can't really blame them. I
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Wanna talk about Lery? This is one of the Gen position in Lery. Survivor starts to hear TR. They tends to stand still at the middle between 2 doors to check which one killer comes
When the chase starts, the distance is mostly below 10m, cut down the Lung, it is 7.7 meters.
Its your turn to create a scene where a survivor can run in straight line at the edge for 34sec before taking a hit. Go.
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Seriously, stop with the semantics. You are missing the forest for the trees.
There are plenty of obstacles in the game that you can force killers to take a straight path around. Most main building have long walls to enable this. You will usually have enough time to get to a safe tile to start playing around if the killer actually commits to you, which is why most don't. Haddonfield and Midwich were infamous for this, with old Object of Obsession, because most killers couldn't cut you off on those maps.
There is nothing wrong with saying that holding W is strong. I use it against a lot of killers because it is easier to guarantee my chase time is longer then if I risk a 50/50 at the pallet against killers like Pyramid Head, Pig, Slinger, Nemesis, Doctor, etc.5 -
Also you got the speed wrong for lunges, it increases your movespeed to 6.9m/s for the duration, or 150% of a 4.6 killers speed.
EXACTLY.
Except its 150% speed of killer, not survivor. Its 172.5% speed compared to survivor
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Why should I stop? Killers describe their chasing time like a child connecting the dots on paper to draw an image. Thats not how chase works.
Im so tired of "divined by 0.6"
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Considering there is plenty of obstacle that can extends chase time just by dropping, I don't think it matters as much
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