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Bleeding Out needs to be adressed.
Comments
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Asking for an issue to be ignored until your own personal issues are addressed first is one of the most prime examples of gatekeeping I can think of. It's actively trying to silence the discussion in favor of a different topic.
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He never said in his own words he is trying to silence the topic or ignore it. So let’s not put words in peoples mouths when it’s written down on the internet for you to read.
He simply made a suggestion to fixing the root of the issue which would in return help fix this current issue being discussed. (Bleeding Out)
Again, nowhere in his message does he say he is silencing the topic or gatekeeping. He gave his opinion, his feedback.
So again….I disagree. You won’t change my mind respectfully, so have a good day.
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I'm getting bored with this conversation, so how about we just summarize everything:
- Anti slug will only activate if there is a 100% guaranteed chance the killer can hook the slugged survivor. This needs to take into consideration the slugged survivor's perks, the travelable distance to nearby hooks (which requires new code, because DBD currently has no idea what travelable distance means), whether or not any teammates are anywhere near the slugged survivor, and anything else I might have forgotten to mention.
- The anti slug mechanic, will somehow notify to the killer that they have a 100% chance to get the survivor to a nearby hook, to guarantee the fact that if the killer doesn't hook the survivor, then it's 100% because they want to slug the survivor even though they don't need to. And, of course, the killer will be guaranteed to see the auras of all nearby hooks, so the killer will know where the guaranteed hooks are.
That's how anti-slug can work.
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Look, if you don't want to talk about this, I respect that, but in his own words: "Let's start with features that prevent survivors from being unhookable and then we can speak about the ones preventing bleeding out."
I.e. "Lets fix my issue and then we can *talk* about yours."
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- A survivor will be able to pick themselves off the ground if they:
-Are downed with a certain range of a hook (not new code, see Make your Choice)
-Aren't on a Pallet.
-Don't have certain perks.
-Aren't around other survivors.
2. The killer doesn't need a notification since proposed Anti-slug doesn't proc if the survivor gets to a certain wiggle timer, meaning the killer can simply play out the hooking scenario like normal without worrying about dropping a survivor and proccing anti-slug. You've made up yet another scenario stopped with a solution pitched three posts ago.
I'm a little bored with this as well, but thank you for your time! It isn't often you can ask an internet stranger to debate you for this long.
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Certain range of a hook is unacceptable, because that's not travelable distance. The killer can't carry survivors through walls or ceilings. DBD would need to figure out the shortest travelable (while carrying a survivor) distance to a hook, to determine if it's within range. You can't just say "oh there's a hook within 10 meters so anti slug should happen", if the survivor is against the courtyard wall on Midwich, and the 10 meter away hook is on the other side of the courtyard wall, and the travelable distance is so far that it's literally not possible to get a survivor there if the survivor is wiggling.
Killers should be notified if there is a 100% chance they can hook a slugged survivor for 3 reasons:
- A killer has a valid reason to slug a survivor, if they think someone else might be in the area to interrupt them. The easiest example involves a survivor that purposely gets knocked down in an open cornfield, and the killer already has eaten a background player + flashbang save that game.
- A killer has a valid reason to slug a survivor, if they don't think any hooks are in range. And there might be a nearby hook, that the killer can't see, and doesn't know is there, and the killer honestly thinks no hooks are in range.
- Anti slug is a huge killer nerf, and killers really should be getting SOMETHING as compensation. Trying to frame this whole thing as a 100% killer nerf is awful. If killers are going to be punished when they unnecessarily slug a survivor, then the killer should at least be told when it's unnecessary to slug a survivor.
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You've brought the wall thing up at multiple points as if those hooks couldn't simply not be counted. Anti-camp already has a similar restriction depending on where the killer is in relation to the hook, this proposal is just the inverse of that.
- If the killer is right and there's someone nearby, anti-slug didn't proc. If the killer is wrong, then just return back to the slugged survivor?
- Let killers see hooks when they down a survivor instead of picking them up. I've actually had this idea for a while and think it would make the game a lot more beginner friendly. If push comes to shove though, a killer could definitely receive a notification that the survivor is getting anti-slug, and I'd even extend this to anti-camp too.
- Anti-3gen was also a killer nerf, so was Anti-camp. There is abundant precident that these playstyles can be 86'd without breaking the game, and if nixing slugging in this way does somehow destroy balancing, that is indicative of a far greater issue. As well, this still assumes that Anti-slug can be weaponized in a significant way that it does greatly change the way to play beyond just incentivising hooking the survivors you down, and honestly, I haven't seen you give an example that isn't blocked by any of the restrictions I've proposed, sorry.
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Anti camp works through walls and ceilings! Do you think it's fair for anti-slug to trigger because of a hook that is behind one or more walls, and the travelable distance is so long that the killer literally can't hook the survivor there?
How do you plan on counting hooks the killer can get a survivor to, and exclude hooks the killer can't get a survivor to?
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Anti-camp slows depending on the killers distance from the hook, including through walls and floors, meaning the game already tracks a killer's distance from the hook and calculates it's slowdown accordingly. If it can detect that, all it needs to do is detect scenarios wherein a killer is physically incapable of making it to the hook with a survivor despite being in the range of a hook, a process that can only really be achieved through ceilings or walls, which means the game presumably needs to create a pathing line from the downed survivor to the hook, and calculate whether the killer can make the hook using their slowed move speed while carrying versus the time they have available (Agitation and Iron Grasp would change both these variables). Is it new code? Yes. Is it all complex? No, it's just a layer on top of the anti-camp coding.
These are the same devs that beat the camera system into submission for Chucky by coding him as a weapon and managed to include an entire sub-map for Xeno just for when they Tunnel, I think making the computer game run a math problem is more than possible for determining whether a killer can make a hook.
So, in summary for the five posts you've spent trying to break this hypothetical anti-slug, the best you've got is that if a killer downs a survivor next to a hook, thinks they can't make the hook but actually can, they'll proc anti-slug despite thinking it was a necessary play for them? I'd call that a misplay but to each their own I suppose.
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No; the entire point of all these posts, is that killers should only be punished for slugging if 1) the slugging was 100% unnecessary and 2) if the killer knows the slugging was 100% unnecessary.
If killers honestly think they can't get a survivor to a hook, then they aren't unnecessarily slugging, and therefore shouldn't be punished.
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If a killer can see every hook, there are no survivors around to challenge said hook so anti-slug procs, and decides they can't make the hook for whatever reason, then sure, this case illustrates the usefulness of a notification whenever anti-slug activates, as it confirms that they can make the hook, which funnily enough actually makes this a killer buff for those that don't slug, and is a pretty decent tool for beginner killers to learn what hooks they can make. Anything else?
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No, that's it. I ran out of things to say. You should get a forum achievement for this.
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Thank you, I shall now personally propose this concept to the entity sometime between eight years from now and my next copium shot
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Make it so that it is when you have 2 hooks already and are in dying state for more than 10-15 seconds. I completely despise being slugged and let bleed out completely, wastes my time.
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Can 2 things not be problematic at the same time?
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the finisher mori came with the absolutely broken basekit unbreakable that would have made the game worse for every killer but nurse and blight. especially twins, they were unplayable on that ptb.
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