Bleeding Out needs to be adressed.

The proposed mechanic would disable if there are survivors around the slug, you are proposing scenario's that don't even circumvent the restrictions I proposed and have been referring to for three comments. You either fail to understand what I'm proposing or are purposely ignoring any proposed solutions in favor of pretending I'm pitching the same system as in the PTB. Hell, if you want even more solutions to your issue, give it a seven second grace period like anti-camp for killers to maybe kick a gen or challenge a flashy before their timer even starts/pauses.

If survivors can and will weaponize literally everything, I wanna see the op small game build, since clearly anything and everything can be abused regardless of the restrictions or balance of it, right? How about Anti-camp? It's been in the game for a few months and I haven't seen nearly enough salt posts for a mechanic that can give a survivor a free unhook. The restrictions put in place limited it's useability such that not only do killers decide if it activates, but that they also can play around any survivors attempt to turn the mechanic in their favor.

This line of thinking is silly. Survivors aren't super spies about to turn pencils into murder weapons, they're gamers looking for ways to get ahead in a match. If the devs put the proper limitations in place, like they already have for other mechanics designed to counter killer playstyles, they should be able to devise a mechanic that counters a killer's ability to effectively slug multiple survivors for minutes at a time instead of disrupting regular gameplay. They've done it before.

1: I don't think exit gate camping happens more often (at least in my games), because the Killer wins the vast majority of the time (regardless of which side I'm playing). I'm only seeing it as Killer in ~20% of my losses (so ~5-10% of total matches) and it usually is only one person so it doesn't involve any longer than 10s (unlike the theoretical Gate A push, B push, A push, B push). At the same time the minimum rate for my Surv matches is 1/10 (and that isn't including matches where I die early, so it could be higher). Anecdotal is anecdotal to be fair, and both of our experiences are different.

2: Hooks still give Survivors agency to end the match, Bleedouts don't. You can Kobe and either live, or accelerate your death. Then on 2nd stage you can simply not attempt skillchecks to die. Agency exists to end (your part in) the match.

3. Back to 1 for anecdotal, but my point was as long as the perks/add-ons aren't revealed when you die, or you are waiting for a friend to exit the match, it can hold additional people waiting to play beyond those strictly still 'playing' in the match. The bare minimum common case is 2 victims (slug for 4k), where gate bags has 1 victim.

4. You can't AFK if the Killer picks you up and perma-shoulders you, you have to wiggle to ensure you die. If you wiggle you can force the bleedout to occur during the weapon wipe before they pick you up. Otherwise you risk ~50m hostage (for the lobby to time out), or ~28m when they intentionally do that over and over (only accruing bleedout time during the weapon wipe). Griefing is already against the game rules and bannable, so you can record and report. Shoulder juggling to bleed someone out over ~28m is technically legal, as it will end eventually. It clearly breaks the rules in spirit, but we are stuck with the letter of the law.

Section 1: Back to previous reply section 1, anecdotal for each.

Section 2: I didn't want to say it in the previous reply/part 1 because it didn't seem relevant, but the kid/rock analogy fits this perfectly. The vast majority of exit gate bags is in response to something the Killer did, such as camping/tunneling/picking a sweatlord Killer like Nurse/etc. Since I am a 'D-tier main', who doesn't intentionally tunnel or camp, I nearly never see them as Killer. I only included the 20% of times I saw a teammate to bag a Killer in soloq for the above reply, and that was only when we could even win a soloq match.

Section 3: I understand this can happen, but again it is few and far between, with anecdotal experience varying. Would you say it happens as often as 1/100 matches where people intentionally map offer into Boil Over? Even then, my point here was the people doing this can't expect anything other than bleeding out, and don't have a justification to complain about a bleedout death. They could still use a surrender feature I would want if they realize the Killer isn't missing a brain.

Section 4: Again, the Survivor 'hostage' issue is bannable. Record and report. (Specifically if a Survivor refuses to touch a gen once per 10 minutes is the technical line in the sand.) The Killer 'hostage' issue isn't bannable (currently). I would just want a surrender feature for Killer or Survivor to take their earned BP and go home to prevent these scenarios for both sides.

Section 5: Saying 'the timer is 2 minutes, AND you can shorten it if you want' is NOT putting responsibility on the Killer to end it in 2 minutes. You can say it is putting responsibility on the Killer to have it take shorter than 2 minutes, but the issue being compared here for Killer is 2 min without input, less with input. Agency exists to make that decision. For Survivor it is 4 min without input, but you need to monitor to make sure they aren't carrying you, so it isn't a true AFK like Killer's. Since you need to remain at the Keyboard, there isn't agency for Survivor, just required actions. Also a surrender feature should only be available when the game is either over, or can be considered over. The Survivors can make that decision after a death if they want to stay or play. Why would you want to force people to play a 3v1 at 5 gens? That isn't bypassing the DC timer, that's bypassing wasting their lives. Similarly if someone was AFK long enough to reach 3 crows, it clearly wasn't a real or fair match, as it effectively was the same thing as a 3v1 at 5 gens, or an intentional bleedout. The Killer can make that decision at any point in the game if they can win or not, but I would add a 5-10 minute minimum game time for Killer.

Section 6: (Loose quote) "A lot of Killers 'feel' like they need multiple gen slowdown." I think this is more that people don't realize the value of lethality and intel, and are too scared to expand their horizons. Chasing a Survivor denies gen seconds, but the rest of the team is able to pump gens. That means delaying a chase to apply slowdown is silver plattering gen time to 3 people equal to the extended chase time. A gen kick takes 1.8s (plus however long it takes to move into close enough position to magnet on). That gives the Survivor 7.2 extra meters of distance. If a normal M1 Killer catches up at 0.6m/second, they give the Survivors 12 extra realtime seconds. If 3 Survs are on gens, and this is to chase the 4th after the kick, the Killer gives the Survivor team 36 free gen seconds. This means most players are hurting their chances of winning by using gen kick perks ineffectively. You can also reverse this equation to see how much time you steal from the Survivors by shortening chase through bypassing the 'find the Survivor' time with Intel, as well as Lethality methods of shortening chase.

Sorry, I disagree though. It didn’t come off rude at all. My opinion though. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Asking for an issue to be ignored until your own personal issues are addressed first is one of the most prime examples of gatekeeping I can think of. It's actively trying to silence the discussion in favor of a different topic.

I'm getting bored with this conversation, so how about we just summarize everything:

1. Anti slug will only activate if there is a 100% guaranteed chance the killer can hook the slugged survivor. This needs to take into consideration the slugged survivor's perks, the travelable distance to nearby hooks (which requires new code, because DBD currently has no idea what travelable distance means), whether or not any teammates are anywhere near the slugged survivor, and anything else I might have forgotten to mention.
2. The anti slug mechanic, will somehow notify to the killer that they have a 100% chance to get the survivor to a nearby hook, to guarantee the fact that if the killer doesn't hook the survivor, then it's 100% because they want to slug the survivor even though they don't need to. And, of course, the killer will be guaranteed to see the auras of all nearby hooks, so the killer will know where the guaranteed hooks are.

That's how anti-slug can work.

1. A survivor will be able to pick themselves off the ground if they:

-Are downed with a certain range of a hook (not new code, see Make your Choice)

-Aren't on a Pallet.

-Don't have certain perks.

-Aren't around other survivors.

2. The killer doesn't need a notification since proposed Anti-slug doesn't proc if the survivor gets to a certain wiggle timer, meaning the killer can simply play out the hooking scenario like normal without worrying about dropping a survivor and proccing anti-slug. You've made up yet another scenario stopped with a solution pitched three posts ago.

I'm a little bored with this as well, but thank you for your time! It isn't often you can ask an internet stranger to debate you for this long.

You've brought the wall thing up at multiple points as if those hooks couldn't simply not be counted. Anti-camp already has a similar restriction depending on where the killer is in relation to the hook, this proposal is just the inverse of that.

1. If the killer is right and there's someone nearby, anti-slug didn't proc. If the killer is wrong, then just return back to the slugged survivor?
2. Let killers see hooks when they down a survivor instead of picking them up. I've actually had this idea for a while and think it would make the game a lot more beginner friendly. If push comes to shove though, a killer could definitely receive a notification that the survivor is getting anti-slug, and I'd even extend this to anti-camp too.
3. Anti-3gen was also a killer nerf, so was Anti-camp. There is abundant precident that these playstyles can be 86'd without breaking the game, and if nixing slugging in this way does somehow destroy balancing, that is indicative of a far greater issue. As well, this still assumes that Anti-slug can be weaponized in a significant way that it does greatly change the way to play beyond just incentivising hooking the survivors you down, and honestly, I haven't seen you give an example that isn't blocked by any of the restrictions I've proposed, sorry.

Anti-camp slows depending on the killers distance from the hook, including through walls and floors, meaning the game already tracks a killer's distance from the hook and calculates it's slowdown accordingly. If it can detect that, all it needs to do is detect scenarios wherein a killer is physically incapable of making it to the hook with a survivor despite being in the range of a hook, a process that can only really be achieved through ceilings or walls, which means the game presumably needs to create a pathing line from the downed survivor to the hook, and calculate whether the killer can make the hook using their slowed move speed while carrying versus the time they have available (Agitation and Iron Grasp would change both these variables). Is it new code? Yes. Is it all complex? No, it's just a layer on top of the anti-camp coding.

These are the same devs that beat the camera system into submission for Chucky by coding him as a weapon and managed to include an entire sub-map for Xeno just for when they Tunnel, I think making the computer game run a math problem is more than possible for determining whether a killer can make a hook.

So, in summary for the five posts you've spent trying to break this hypothetical anti-slug, the best you've got is that if a killer downs a survivor next to a hook, thinks they can't make the hook but actually can, they'll proc anti-slug despite thinking it was a necessary play for them? I'd call that a misplay but to each their own I suppose.

If a killer can see every hook, there are no survivors around to challenge said hook so anti-slug procs, and decides they can't make the hook for whatever reason, then sure, this case illustrates the usefulness of a notification whenever anti-slug activates, as it confirms that they can make the hook, which funnily enough actually makes this a killer buff for those that don't slug, and is a pretty decent tool for beginner killers to learn what hooks they can make. Anything else?

Thank you, I shall now personally propose this concept to the entity sometime between eight years from now and my next copium shot

Can 2 things not be problematic at the same time?