Addressing Twins
One of the main things making them unfun to play was the taking hostage of Victor and it’s been confirmed that the current ability to recall Victor early is a bug and will be getting reverted. Even with the QoL changes this is still going to leave the Twins extremely unplayed as the QoL will not have fixed the core problem. Once this bug is fixed Victor will be taken hostage for 30 seconds + the new longer 10 second respawn for 40 seconds total of power removed on every.single.injure. That is literally “minutes” of the game spent with their power taken hostage and just walking around as an m1. This is bad design and just unfun.
For the enjoyment of playing the killer this early recall to prevent their power from being taken hostage needs to stay. However if we are doing this Victor needs more counter play to be more fair if he’s going to have more uptime.
So my question here is, what balance changes can we make to Victor to allow him to have this higher uptime without being too oppressive? What other changes could we make to better balance him?
I think move speed addons probably shouldn’t be a thing with how fast he already is. They are just so good that they’re already just defaulted over everything else. Most her other addons are just bad so she needs an addon pass in general but this much lower move speed without those addons would add more counter play.
Second we could remove blood and silence survivor sounds while on Victor. I think this on top of the slower speeds would allow for more mind games and losing Victor as it would be significantly harder to track people on Victor without scratch marks, blood or survivor sounds.
What do you think of this idea? Do you have another idea instead?
Let me hear y’all’s thoughts of how we could keep the Victor hostage situations gone while giving Victor counter play.
Comments
-
Blight hug tech was apparently a bug for 3 years. It took ages for BVHR to fix that bug. Twins might be same thing where feature stays for a very long time and then one, it suddenly disappears making twins a lot worse. Twins has speed, toy sword and spinning drop. they have narrow range of useful add-on but their add-on are good.
0 -
I don’t have Twins so correct me if I’m wrong, but the patch notes say that the increased respawn timer only applies when Victor was crushed. Does recalling him also apply the 10 second timer?
0 -
They do have a few good addons just like 80% of them that are garbage.
1 -
Well the problem is they will just crush him right before you recall at 30. They simply drag out the hostage situation till the last second. Even if we assume the survivor is bad and doesn’t do that, 30 seconds is still minutes on minutes of the game with no power and too long.
0 -
Oh true. Maybe make it so if you wait around 20 seconds before crushing Victor then the respawn is reduced or just removed entirely after 30 seconds.
1 -
Then they’d just crush him right before 20 and you still get a net 30 seconds of power gone each time. Which I suppose is still a few seconds less than what we’d have other wise which is better, but still just seems too long. I feel like the concept itself of taking their power away is bad design. I think they should balance Victor in a way that makes having him up as often as he is now okay.
0 -
sounds like most killers. i don't see issue is the killer has few good add-on's. add-on are more of an issue is when they completely suck and have zero relevancy. See freddy add-on list that is 100% garbage.
0 -
It does sound like most killers. I just think that means most killers need addon passes rather than that meaning it’s a good standard to stay with.
0 -
add-on passes take too long. i rather have perk passes because…. at least perks affect every single killer. survivor perks also barely get changed besides decisive striking getting buffed and Adrenaline staying the same.
0 -
I mean if my options are addon or perk pass then yeah I’m gonna take perk pass.
0 -
"Second we could remove blood and silence survivor sounds while on Victor."This would also make Twins borderline not fun to play as as well since those are the ONLY ways to track survivors as Victor and, due to his crazy low camera FoV, you wouldn't be able to see over anything meaning you wouldn't be able to visibly track survivors as him at all on cluttered maps.
0 -
I mean that is a valid point. Just trying to think of new counter play ideas. Do you have an idea instead?
0 -
Twins aren't really a killer that can have any valid/reasonable counter-play. Also it's a bad idea to try forcing counter-play methods onto a killer who doesn't really have a design that could allow any reasonable counter-play because all that does is result in an "anti-gameplay" killer like Singularity where both sides can just completely deny each other the ability to play how they want.
The best and most reasonable counter-play for any killer with a ranged ability(regardless if it's a projectile, leap, etc) that doesn't force them into an anti-gameplay killer is simply dodging which is what Twins already have for their counter-play.
That's the only problem I have with killers getting designed with too much of a counter outside of the simple dodging counter-play and such because all it has really done is make it too easy for many players and thus all of those players behave like every killer should have WAY more counter-play to them than what is needed.
0 -
So you want it just left as is with Victor being held hostage?
0 -
I feel like Victor would need quite the changes to gain some counterplay. He would have to be much slower, and his pounce would have to be dodgeable. Seems very unlikely that Victor will receive such changes.
0 -
That's not what I mean, but an easy fix to that is simply what BHVR were planning on doing initially with their rework where Charlotte gains Haste after Victor latches onto a survivor that lasts until either Victor gets ripped off or until she hits a survivor. That wouldn't encourage slugging since Victor doesn't latch onto downed survivors and would just encourage survivors to rip him off of themselves instead of trying to hold him hostage since all they'll be doing is messing themselves or even their own team up by not ripping him off.
0 -
So while holding Victor or Victor has someone in a locker she gets 10% haste as we had on the PTB?
0 -
Any other ideas to fix him?
What do you think about those nerfs to Victor I mentioned for counter play?
0 -
Essentially, yes, because the main problem with her gaining Haste during the PTB was that it actually made her slugging potential stronger since Victor only latched onto downed survivors. So I feel like it wouldn't be a problem with their current version since she wouldn't be gaining it while a survivor is downed by Victor meaning it's not gonna be buffing her slugging potential at all.
0 -
I’d be interested to try this. I know people really scoff at giving haste these days though.
0 -
It's either Haste or Hindered(for the survivor Victor is latched onto) since Victor already applies 3 different status effects to said survivor(Oblivious, Incapacitated, and Broken).
0 -
I'd prefer the Haste over hindered since it lets you actually chase other survivors as well and the Hindered wouldn't work for locker jumps.
0 -
Exactly- Plus, if it was made to be Hindered instead, then it'd likely annoy a lot of people since there'd be a bunch of effects cluttering the side of their screen
0
