The Twins Feedback

I don't think the 4 more seconds are that big of a deal and the rest of the buffs make up for it completely. Aside from that I don't think their goal is to make the killer player miserable but to put themselves in a position where it is not worth it for the killer to hook them... Not everyone is trying to make your life miserable...

Well if you always assume the worst of people that will just leave you miserable... But whatever your choice.

Funny you say that since you assume I assume the worst of people outside this game which I don't. In other games and outside of games I never assume the worst of people, it's just in this game I do bc I've seen patterns over the years I played this game. In no other game has I encountered as much toxic, entitlement, and sore winning/losing attitudes as I do in the dbd community. Everyone says and acts that this wonderful community is in gaming but in my eyes, this community is just as toxic as League of legends. I have only stuck around this long bc I really love the game once and love playing the killers, it just isn't even enough for me anymore. Sure there is good ppl in dbd, Im not saying there isnt but there are way more toxic/entitle ppl in dbd than wholesome good ppl. Anyway sorry for getting off topic, have a nice and blessed day. ^^

I don't know about that... It just feels like that in dbd a lot of playful or slightly mocking things get immediately seen as toxic and not OK when in dota for example tipping someone after a missplay is for sure bm, but it is almost socially accepted and sometimes even funny... I guess it is just about what you see as toxic and what not.

A nice and blessed day to you too good sir or madam.

I understood this the first time. My issue is your conclusion that these tactics are applied to make you, personally, miserable when it is merely the best thing to do objectively. This is much more a design/maybe balancing issue than a toxic behaviour one even if it is the intention of the SWF going into the match. If they do this while not doing gens then you have a strong point but if they try to get out relatively quickly you don't other than it feels terrible to play. We saw what is possible with a much quicker recall and no latching onto injured survivors.

On the PTB, it took a bit over 20 seconds for Twins to be able to control Victor again, AND we are supposed to add whatever seconds it takes for Victor to travel back to that survivor, on top of that 20 seconds.

And Victor does have solo based counter play. It’s just not as easy as “hold Victor hostage”. There are still many tiles where Victor literally can’t get a hit if the survivors play the tile correctly. And there is still the counter play that if Victor is too far away from Charlotte, then the survivor can just jump into a locker, because Victor can only hold a locker for 10 seconds.

I literally don’t care if survivors can’t repair generators while they are holding Victor hostage. I never said this was about win rates, or about effective strategies for winning games.

I literally said this entire thing is about how awful it feels to play Twins, when survivors are holding Victor’s power hostage for large portions of the game.

In fact, what we should be arguing is that when survivors are purposely holding Victor hostage far away from Twins, specifically when they aren’t being chased, they are literally doing it to bully the killer, because the “more efficient” gameplay would be to crush Victor so they can repair generators instead.

can you explain why a survivor hitting dead hard or using any form of endurance like styptic agent makes killer deserving of a longer 10 second regrow time? I do not understand why the killer is getting extra punishment on cooldown for something they have 0 control over.

Victor hitting healthy survivor for survivor is also something that killer has no control over in terms of whether they get the victor back. Losing with Twins right now is losing from poor game mechanics. I am suppose get punished as the killer when the survivor outplays the killer and successfully misses the victor pounce.

The cooldown being 36 seconds should be the cooldown when the survivor kicks victor from a missed attack. Twins right now get punished for playing using the power correctly instead when the killer makes mistake/plays poorly. This is so backwards.

Many survivors will purposely bodyblock for injured teammates, because they want every Victor hit to land on a healthy survivor, so they can hold Victor's power hostage. So it often doesn't matter if Victor is chasing a healthy or injured survivor.

You said “Maybe this incentives you to not hit healthy survivors with Pounce but m1 them and that's the correct way to play from that perspective?”

How does that incentive work, when it often doesn’t matter if Victor is trying to chase a healthy or injured survivor?

Because counterplay is a thing? What is your point even... You want to play in a specific way and down someone and they prevent you from doing it... The correct way to play Oni is slugging... If a survivor is in a dead zone and jumps into a locker to force the grab so oni cannot snowball that might be the correct play, does not mean Oni is not generally incentivised to slug and snowball through that...

I really don't get your point here... Just because your character has a specific strength, something the character is particularly good at, does not mean that there is nothing to counteract or prevent that specific thing... That is basically the whole gameplay loop... A. Does something B. Tries to counter it and so on...

Singularity has a low pick rate because he is one of the hardest killers in the game, not whatever that reasoning is... Also there are quite a few killers that get their power negated, for example if you have a competent team you will feel similar on trapper or Freddy...

Guess what those killers are played much either and some of the weakest in the game as well. So thanks for proving my point. ^^ Singu having low pick rate is because his hard and his power can be negated with just a button. I never said his pick rate was solo bc of the power thing, it's a combo of both. I like Singu believe it or not, I like him a lot more than Twins in fact but he suffers from the same thing as twins on top of being hard.

It wasnt a strawman but whatever dude. As for EMP being a slowdown that's a joke. EMPs print themselves and are always up for survivors to get. Either way, I only mention Singu bc he has the same issue as Twins on top of being hard to play and requiring effort.

More on topic, I said many of times I get why holding Victor is considered "counterplay" but the issue here is that this counterplay leads to you playing a boring m1 killer for most of the match. I would be fine with it if Charlotte was more interesting to play. Victor is the real killer in this duo. I just don't want to be forced to play the boring part of a killer for most of the match, that is all. Again as you said I don't have to play them and I won't, that is why I wish I could refuse them bc they will NEVER be played. I only got them bc of the promise rework but it's whatever. Im happy for the 6 Twin mains, they can have their boring killer for all I care. I actually hopes they never waste time on this sorry killer anymore and move on to one who is actually fun to play.

Either way, Im done chatting with both of you on this subject. I have stated my opinion over and over again and honestly Im tired. In fact I not even playing this sorry game anymore right anyway since overwatch 2 and hades 2 are way more fun and better design. At least they work right now unlike DBD.

(also I have both of you on ignore, so dont bother with replying bc Im not reading anymore ^^ Have a wonderful day everyone)

BTW. Trapper was the 8th most picked killer on the last set of data we got from like a month ago... 4% pick rate... So I don't know where you get the idea from that he gets barely played.

a survivor that mainly pre-dropping/using strong loops takes too long to m1. Victor is only ticket to get hits. 4 man swf are not common but the strategy of keeping victor for +30 second is not fun for twins to play against. Your chances to win become greatly diminished especially if the team also has strong healing option with med-kits. M1 is not a solution.

The cooldown for twins should be something like this:

→ Getting kicked on miss - 36 second cooldown(When victor is red)

→ Getting kicked on an endurance hit[Successful hit] → 10 seconds cooldown.

→ Victor being recalled/destroyed from environment/Locker/Idle → 6 second cooldown.

I disagree @Blueberry that the main counter-play should be healing/grouping up. The main counter-play to victor should be outplaying the killer and making killer player miss with victor.

To make counter-play a bit easier, i suggest two negative changes for Twins.

→ When victor charges up the pounce, the victor will glows in white signifying that victor has begun charging the pounce. This will look like Wesker's white-hand graphic for survivor

→ Missed cooldown increased from 3 seconds → 4 seconds. This gives survivor more time to kick victor when the killer player misses.

—

Victor should be possible recall immediately after 5 second of injuring a survivor. This time is equal to the time that victor shows his aura after pouncing a survivor.

This how twin should be. I have zero clue how BVHR concluded that you should be having 10 second cooldown for kicking victor regularly but 36 second cooldown for healthy survivors. with how current twin functions, this version is unplayable vs 4 man swf with med-kits.

I can't believe people are still making balance arguments around Victor missing a pounce. No, you cannot avoid a 150% killer walking up to your ankles and charging a pounce that can also hit over pallets and windows if needed. He sees you and you're not near a god window and they're not a newbie at the killer, you're getting hit.

Well, the first sentence was a reply to you, the rest was going in more detail why the hits are guaranteed, for any readers out there that don't know why.

Also you were in discussion with 3 people disagreeing with you and as usual on the internet the casual quick reader would see 3 people voicing an opinion over 1 and think the majority is more often correct, so I wanted to chime in in support to your argument just in that case.

Generally yes, but not in this case... In Victor's case it is just him being bad for missing that pounce... It is not reliable to reproduce on the Survivors side, it has no skillfull part or something you need to learn or figure out. If Victor misses a point blank hit on you that is 100% on him, you didn't outplay him, he just missed.

right… with this logic, a huntress missing hatchet is not survivor having good movement. it is that killer player has trash aim. having tricky movement for a killer is a skill for survivor. While it is favored for killer to hit you, this is intended because killer has *many chases to win and is not playing a 1vs1 contest. they're playing a 4vs1.

the distance that you need to mindgame victor to make hit difficulty is like 4-5 meters. when i am playing survivor, half of the hits twins miss. my teammate on other hand almost always get hit. it is learn to play issue.

Lynxi was never miss any pounces ever if this was true. skill-shot can be juked. In the end i do not understand why your asking to 1vs1 the killer consistently. that is major balance problem when your able 1vs1's the killer. current twins loses to 4vs1 gameplay or is forced to be m1 killer.

BVHR could nerf the pounce charge time from 0.75 to 1.25 seconds. that would nerf victor's 1vs1 but twin will not be top-tier 1vs1 killer anymore in my opinion. If it fixes twins hostage situation, I wouldn't mind.

the smallest number in dbd make huge difference.