We have temporarily disabled The Houndmaster (Bone Chill Event queue) and Baermar Uraz's Ugly Sweater Cosmetic (all queues) due to issues affecting gameplay.

Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
The Dead by Daylight team would like your feedback in a Player Satisfaction survey.

We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.

Access the survey HERE!

The Twins Feedback

13»

Comments

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519

    Honestly I completely disagree with you. I honestly believe a good amount of survivor mains main goal is to make a killer life miserable. Majority of my matches show me as much as most of my survivors are sore winners or losers. I have had more BM survivors than wholesome gg survivors over my 1000+ hours. There a reason I keep chat box turn off at all times and even now I stop playing because the game isn't fun and buggy and it's community as a whole just isn't pleasant be around. I find more nice players in games like overwatch 2 and hunt showdown than DBD nowadays.

    Either way I do agree with coffee, devil and blueberry that the worst and most unfun part of twins is the fact thier power can just be denied 30+ secs multiple times throughout a match totaling up minutes of you being forced to be a boring powerless m1 killer. Honestly I wouldn't care as much if they just made Charlotte somewhat interesting to play, give her something cool to do when someone is giving her brother a piggy back ride. That's not the case though, you just become a m1 killer with no power whatsoever and alot killers just find that boring and not fun.

    This why I'm confident in saying Twins will continue to be the lowest picked killer in the game not seeing past 1% on avg(not counting this patch since I'm sure their pick rate is artificial inflated do to the changes). Which is fine I guess just sucks I have a killer in my roster that never will be played and I regret ever getting them. Love to have the ability to trade them and their perks in for some shards so I can buy some sable cosmetics since those would get so much more use than twins, if I ever play this sorry game ever again.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Well if you always assume the worst of people that will just leave you miserable... But whatever your choice.

  • alpha5
    alpha5 Member Posts: 403

    Declaring ill intentions on survivors the one time they cooperate outside busted stuff like FTP+BU, BGP+Flashies, SWF Sabo, DS+OTR/BT bodyblocks when the alternative is getting slugged and snowballed on against probably the best killer for this playstyle borders on misanthropy. Even more so when it might be the strongest strategy. I enjoy negativity as much as the next guy playing this game but in Twins' case with bodyblocking against Victor and holding on to him Coffeecrashing's conclusion are unreasonable.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519

    Funny you say that since you assume I assume the worst of people outside this game which I don't. In other games and outside of games I never assume the worst of people, it's just in this game I do bc I've seen patterns over the years I played this game. In no other game has I encountered as much toxic, entitlement, and sore winning/losing attitudes as I do in the dbd community. Everyone says and acts that this wonderful community is in gaming but in my eyes, this community is just as toxic as League of legends. I have only stuck around this long bc I really love the game once and love playing the killers, it just isn't even enough for me anymore. Sure there is good ppl in dbd, Im not saying there isnt but there are way more toxic/entitle ppl in dbd than wholesome good ppl. Anyway sorry for getting off topic, have a nice and blessed day. ^^

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    I very often got matched with survivors that would purposely try to hold Victor hostage as long as possible.

    This isn’t a scenario of “I’m chasing a survivor, and they are holding Victor hostage while I’m chasing them”. This is SWFs that are literally coordinating with each other to hold Victor hostage as long as possible. This is survivors purposely holding onto Victor even when they are far away from the killer, and aren’t being chased. This is survivors purposely bodyblocking for injured survivors, because they want every Victor hit to land on a healthy survivor so they can hold Victor hostage.

    And just so we’re all on the same page, I never said every survivor does this, and I never said every survivor wants to do this. What I am saying is this happened often enough that I stopped playing Twins. Yes, there are A LOT of survivors that do want to make the killer miserable, and will prioritize that over trying to win the game.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    I don't know about that... It just feels like that in dbd a lot of playful or slightly mocking things get immediately seen as toxic and not OK when in dota for example tipping someone after a missplay is for sure bm, but it is almost socially accepted and sometimes even funny... I guess it is just about what you see as toxic and what not.

    A nice and blessed day to you too good sir or madam.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    But where is the issue with that? You can always recall him after x amount of time? So everything beyond that is your choice as the killer to keep Victor with that survivor for even longer?

    And bodyblocking is good counterplay to avoid a down.. I really don't see how that is something to do only to make you feel miserable... And even if that was the intention that would be completely fine as long as it is also a reasonable play...

  • alpha5
    alpha5 Member Posts: 403

    I understood this the first time. My issue is your conclusion that these tactics are applied to make you, personally, miserable when it is merely the best thing to do objectively. This is much more a design/maybe balancing issue than a toxic behaviour one even if it is the intention of the SWF going into the match. If they do this while not doing gens then you have a strong point but if they try to get out relatively quickly you don't other than it feels terrible to play. We saw what is possible with a much quicker recall and no latching onto injured survivors.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    The issue is that for a large portion of the game, EVERY SINGLE TIME I want to use Victor, someone ends up taking Victor hostage. I can't believe that some people are ok with Victor's power being held hostage for 40+ seconds, 5 times in a row. How on earth is that acceptable game design?

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519

    I agree, I don't understand how ppl are ok for a killer powers be at the will of the survivors for that long of a time. Just makes the killer so boring to play and not feel good. Like I get it if you lose your power by a misplay or something but victor being held hostage is your reward for a successful hit.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    On the PTB, it took a bit over 20 seconds for Twins to be able to control Victor again, AND we are supposed to add whatever seconds it takes for Victor to travel back to that survivor, on top of that 20 seconds.

    And Victor does have solo based counter play. It’s just not as easy as “hold Victor hostage”. There are still many tiles where Victor literally can’t get a hit if the survivors play the tile correctly. And there is still the counter play that if Victor is too far away from Charlotte, then the survivor can just jump into a locker, because Victor can only hold a locker for 10 seconds.

  • Skillfulstone
    Skillfulstone Member Posts: 803

    As annoying as it can be to be forced to play M1 for long stretches of time (at mid-high level, newcomers/inexperienced Survivors get rid of Victor asap) if a Survivor decides to keep Victor for 30 seconds then even if you are in no position to down that Survivor (due to distance and/or tile strength) then that's a Survivor that can't do anything to progress the game and gives info if he goes by other Survivors.

    The PTB Twins was beyond busted and couldn't go live but at least we got a couple QOL updates, and who knows, maybe someday the Twins will get a true overhaul.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    I literally don’t care if survivors can’t repair generators while they are holding Victor hostage. I never said this was about win rates, or about effective strategies for winning games.

    I literally said this entire thing is about how awful it feels to play Twins, when survivors are holding Victor’s power hostage for large portions of the game.

    In fact, what we should be arguing is that when survivors are purposely holding Victor hostage far away from Twins, specifically when they aren’t being chased, they are literally doing it to bully the killer, because the “more efficient” gameplay would be to crush Victor so they can repair generators instead.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    If it is just as effective to hold him hostage than to figure out which tiles you can play against him and somewhat more reliable then I would also take the safer way..

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    can you explain why a survivor hitting dead hard or using any form of endurance like styptic agent makes killer deserving of a longer 10 second regrow time? I do not understand why the killer is getting extra punishment on cooldown for something they have 0 control over.

    Victor hitting healthy survivor for survivor is also something that killer has no control over in terms of whether they get the victor back. Losing with Twins right now is losing from poor game mechanics. I am suppose get punished as the killer when the survivor outplays the killer and successfully misses the victor pounce.

    The cooldown being 36 seconds should be the cooldown when the survivor kicks victor from a missed attack. Twins right now get punished for playing using the power correctly instead when the killer makes mistake/plays poorly. This is so backwards.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Maybe this incentives you to not hit healthy survivors with Pounce but m1 them and that's the correct way to play from that perspective?

    As for the first part you mean compared to the former 6 seconds? I think those 4 extra seconds get fully out weight by the other buffs and qol changes twins got...

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    Many survivors will purposely bodyblock for injured teammates, because they want every Victor hit to land on a healthy survivor, so they can hold Victor's power hostage. So it often doesn't matter if Victor is chasing a healthy or injured survivor.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Which is the correct counterplay... So what exactly is your point?

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    You said “Maybe this incentives you to not hit healthy survivors with Pounce but m1 them and that's the correct way to play from that perspective?”

    How does that incentive work, when it often doesn’t matter if Victor is trying to chase a healthy or injured survivor?

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Because counterplay is a thing? What is your point even... You want to play in a specific way and down someone and they prevent you from doing it... The correct way to play Oni is slugging... If a survivor is in a dead zone and jumps into a locker to force the grab so oni cannot snowball that might be the correct play, does not mean Oni is not generally incentivised to slug and snowball through that...

    I really don't get your point here... Just because your character has a specific strength, something the character is particularly good at, does not mean that there is nothing to counteract or prevent that specific thing... That is basically the whole gameplay loop... A. Does something B. Tries to counter it and so on...

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519

    You're right, most will just play a different killer, and that kinda the whole point of this. Since Twins is so unfun to play for most bc you are forced to play m1-warrior at the will of the survivors. The other killers really don't have this issue other than Singu and guess what no one plays him either. At the end of the day Twin will continue to be the least-play twin killer never getting above its 1% pick rate. For me I just wish I never got them since I don't enjoy them and as you said I rather play killers who are better than chase since you know that's the best part of dbd. If could I would trade this boring lame killer in for shards.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Singularity has a low pick rate because he is one of the hardest killers in the game, not whatever that reasoning is... Also there are quite a few killers that get their power negated, for example if you have a competent team you will feel similar on trapper or Freddy...

  • alpha5
    alpha5 Member Posts: 403

    Singularity isn't played because he takes too much effort and is quite disorienting when switching through the cams. Singularity also is a 1v4 killer, who can easily leave a chase and reengage elsewhere forcing survivors to spend time getting EMPs slowing down the game. You know, as in intentionally making them disable his own power as a way to apply pressure on the entire team. Seems to me neither you nor Coffeecrashing want to play the 1v4 game. Nice strawman btw.

    Twins isn't easy to balance and, apparently, to (re-)design. We just saw two versions that were busted and busted beyond belief. Maybe survivors can hold on to Victor for too long. I am able to accept that and not opposed to number tweaks as a quick fix, but that is just not what we are "discussing" on this 3rd page here. Instead there is almost exclusively whining that survivors do the only two things they can to not immediately lose the match and how that is toxic. The previous page looks much more like a discussion. Though the thread has feedback in the title so I guess that is enough.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519
    edited May 8

    Guess what those killers are played much either and some of the weakest in the game as well. So thanks for proving my point. ^^ Singu having low pick rate is because his hard and his power can be negated with just a button. I never said his pick rate was solo bc of the power thing, it's a combo of both. I like Singu believe it or not, I like him a lot more than Twins in fact but he suffers from the same thing as twins on top of being hard.

    It wasnt a strawman but whatever dude. As for EMP being a slowdown that's a joke. EMPs print themselves and are always up for survivors to get. Either way, I only mention Singu bc he has the same issue as Twins on top of being hard to play and requiring effort.

    More on topic, I said many of times I get why holding Victor is considered "counterplay" but the issue here is that this counterplay leads to you playing a boring m1 killer for most of the match. I would be fine with it if Charlotte was more interesting to play. Victor is the real killer in this duo. I just don't want to be forced to play the boring part of a killer for most of the match, that is all. Again as you said I don't have to play them and I won't, that is why I wish I could refuse them bc they will NEVER be played. I only got them bc of the promise rework but it's whatever. Im happy for the 6 Twin mains, they can have their boring killer for all I care. I actually hopes they never waste time on this sorry killer anymore and move on to one who is actually fun to play.

    Either way, Im done chatting with both of you on this subject. I have stated my opinion over and over again and honestly Im tired. In fact I not even playing this sorry game anymore right anyway since overwatch 2 and hades 2 are way more fun and better design. At least they work right now unlike DBD.

    (also I have both of you on ignore, so dont bother with replying bc Im not reading anymore ^^ Have a wonderful day everyone)

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634
    edited May 8

    Freddy does not get played too much because he is weak... Technically even when he was strong his power could be negated...

    I don't think trapper has too low of a pick rate btw. So I didn't really prove your point...

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    BTW. Trapper was the 8th most picked killer on the last set of data we got from like a month ago... 4% pick rate... So I don't know where you get the idea from that he gets barely played.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    a survivor that mainly pre-dropping/using strong loops takes too long to m1. Victor is only ticket to get hits. 4 man swf are not common but the strategy of keeping victor for +30 second is not fun for twins to play against. Your chances to win become greatly diminished especially if the team also has strong healing option with med-kits. M1 is not a solution.

    The cooldown for twins should be something like this:

    → Getting kicked on miss - 36 second cooldown(When victor is red)

    → Getting kicked on an endurance hit[Successful hit] → 10 seconds cooldown.

    → Victor being recalled/destroyed from environment/Locker/Idle → 6 second cooldown.

    I disagree @Blueberry that the main counter-play should be healing/grouping up. The main counter-play to victor should be outplaying the killer and making killer player miss with victor.

    To make counter-play a bit easier, i suggest two negative changes for Twins.

    → When victor charges up the pounce, the victor will glows in white signifying that victor has begun charging the pounce. This will look like Wesker's white-hand graphic for survivor

    → Missed cooldown increased from 3 seconds → 4 seconds. This gives survivor more time to kick victor when the killer player misses.

    Victor should be possible recall immediately after 5 second of injuring a survivor. This time is equal to the time that victor shows his aura after pouncing a survivor.

    This how twin should be. I have zero clue how BVHR concluded that you should be having 10 second cooldown for kicking victor regularly but 36 second cooldown for healthy survivors. with how current twin functions, this version is unplayable vs 4 man swf with med-kits.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    How is it counterplay if it requires the killer to miss... If Victor misses a pounce that is basically 100% on him.... I would some counterplay that requires me do to something skillfully and not him to be bad.

    Recall after 5 seconds + the additional 6 from the recall... Isn't that basically what their bugged state was? When they were super busted because you could easily 4 men slug everyone?

  • SignedUp4PTBFeedback
    SignedUp4PTBFeedback Member Posts: 58

    I can't believe people are still making balance arguments around Victor missing a pounce. No, you cannot avoid a 150% killer walking up to your ankles and charging a pounce that can also hit over pallets and windows if needed. He sees you and you're not near a god window and they're not a newbie at the killer, you're getting hit.

  • SignedUp4PTBFeedback
    SignedUp4PTBFeedback Member Posts: 58

    Well, the first sentence was a reply to you, the rest was going in more detail why the hits are guaranteed, for any readers out there that don't know why.

    Also you were in discussion with 3 people disagreeing with you and as usual on the internet the casual quick reader would see 3 people voicing an opinion over 1 and think the majority is more often correct, so I wanted to chime in in support to your argument just in that case.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    I would some counterplay that requires me do to something skillfully and not him to be bad.

    making killer miss is doing something skillful.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Generally yes, but not in this case... In Victor's case it is just him being bad for missing that pounce... It is not reliable to reproduce on the Survivors side, it has no skillfull part or something you need to learn or figure out. If Victor misses a point blank hit on you that is 100% on him, you didn't outplay him, he just missed.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    right… with this logic, a huntress missing hatchet is not survivor having good movement. it is that killer player has trash aim. having tricky movement for a killer is a skill for survivor. While it is favored for killer to hit you, this is intended because killer has *many chases to win and is not playing a 1vs1 contest. they're playing a 4vs1.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    If the huntress misses you point blank it is exactly the same, it changes over distance, but that is not the point... When you are 10 cm away from the target and you miss that is on you...

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    the distance that you need to mindgame victor to make hit difficulty is like 4-5 meters. when i am playing survivor, half of the hits twins miss. my teammate on other hand almost always get hit. it is learn to play issue.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    Well guess s we disagree on that, it is indeed a learn to play issue, but fully on the twins side.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    Lynxi was never miss any pounces ever if this was true. skill-shot can be juked. In the end i do not understand why your asking to 1vs1 the killer consistently. that is major balance problem when your able 1vs1's the killer. current twins loses to 4vs1 gameplay or is forced to be m1 killer.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    I'm technically not asking for that, it would just be nice to also have a chase interaction that does not require your team, but as I said before I guess we just disagree on this.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116

    BVHR could nerf the pounce charge time from 0.75 to 1.25 seconds. that would nerf victor's 1vs1 but twin will not be top-tier 1vs1 killer anymore in my opinion. If it fixes twins hostage situation, I wouldn't mind.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,634

    You think that half a second will give you a reasonable amount of distance? I would doubt that...

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,116
  • adsads123123123123
    adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 1,132
    edited May 10

    The 2 major issues with Twins:

    • Clunkiness: made them annoying to play
    • Victor being held hostage: made them boring to play since you effectively had no power for most of the match

    This update addressed the 1st issue but not the 2nd. Twins is a killer with a 40 second cooldown, which is absurdly long. There is no other killer in the game with nearly as long of a cooldown on their primary power.