Chaos Shuffle - Proof slowdown is necessary?

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As we all know, Chaos Shuffle is currently added in as a modifier to Dead by Daylight. It is always nice to get a bit of fresh air, away from all the meta slaving and tryharding. No more Pop/Pain Res combos, no more offensive OTR/DH/DS forcing with bodyblocks.

But, I'd like to pull attention to an issue. Doesn't this modifier prove Killers are in desperate need of slowdown?

The point I'm trying to make is simple. All perks equipped being niche is very similar to no perks being equipped at all. If both sides bring no add-ons, the Survivors are more likely to outperform the Killer. If both sides bring their best add-ons, the Survivors are more likely to outperform the Killer again.

The base game is severely punishing to the Killer, as there's no room for error when battling 4 other people. Every chase has to be perfect, and missing even one hit, or having a bad first chase can cost you the entire game.

Now, I'm not supportive of tunneling, but I've seen Survivors complaining about how it's more prevalent in Chaos Shuffle than in the base game. Shouldn't we put two and two together to realize that maybe it's very difficult to keep up with 4 people hammering generators without a way to slow them down?

Survivors got their basekit anti-tunnel. When are Killers getting their basekit slowdown? Instead of punishing hooking the same survivor twice, why not reward hooking different survivors? Isn't nerfing Pain Resonance very backwards? Or Grim Embrace?

It is very, very difficult to consistently win without gen slowdown. Heck, I play Nurse with a full aura build and no gen slowdown very decently, and even with all that chase power (within the context of playing fair, not tunneling and camping), it's not possible to get consistently good results.

If having short chases with different survivors is not rewarded, no wonder people resort to tunneling. Now, I'm not dull. I've played some survivor games and believe me, I'm not an alien to getting tunneled at 5 gens by a Wesker who definitely wasn't really loved by his parents. But sometimes, you really are forced to tunnel a hook stage or two. Be it because no one is dead at 2 gens remaining with 6/12 hooks, or because you got unlucky Scourge spawns and you really need that -25% you couldn't get the first time you hooked the survivor.

I don't support tunneling. This is the exact reason Killers need to be rewarded for switching up their targets. If perks need nerfs to comfort such a balance change, so be it. But we shouldn't be forced to have 25-50% of our build dedicated to regression if we want a chance to win consistently.

Let me know what you think.

Comments

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 950
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    it's so far from nescessary, killer players have gotten too comfortable with the chase into scourge approach (relying on a snowball) rather than knowing the correct context to kick a gen/strategically let others go to create an easier patrol route.

    the time you can save with chase perks/powers can create enough pressure to force them to play more altruistically.

    Sometimes you get bad RNG like the survivors spawning seperatley, I don't think slowdown is ever needed, there is just a lot of RNG to this game, you just have to roll with it and do your best.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,426
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    Honestly, I think it depends on the killer. Mobility and ranged killers have it easier than others, they can reliably down quickly compared to base M1 killers or those with really telegraphed powers.

    That said, after toying with gen speed builds myself, the optimization of survivor perks needs addressed. There's a good reason why killers run regression, and Chaos Shuffle doesn't highlight that much outside toolboxes.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 7,363
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    gen speed builds don't need addressing. the killer is suppose to feel like they lose off making 1 mistake when vsing gen progression. The issue is current base-balance of the game makes killer feel like they lose off making 1 mistake with no progression perks. that is the issue.

    The killer in the base games needs room for error but has no room for error vs good teams. that is why they run gen regression…. so that they have room for error…. to physically play the match. Without that, the killer simply doesn't get to play the match. they lose before they get any chance to express skill.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 717
    edited May 19
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    It's literally basekit anti tunnel. The speed boost gives you time to get to a loop. You cannot say it's nothing when thealternative is immediately being put back on the ground with not even a chance to get away.

    This forum unhinged. "Thing is not actually thing". Slay me.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 717
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    Ask the YouTube man of your choice whether slowdown is mandatory on most killers and they'll tell you absolutely. You can't bootstrap yourself into cross map pressure on killers who don't have any innately.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,332
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    Killers have basekit slowdown, it just requires playing well to use.

    I personally haven't noticed Chaos Shuffle proving that killers need slowdown, since I don't run slowdown that much myself and so reacting to what perks I have has revealed more that I as a player tend to rely on info perks. If anything, I'd say that proves that players - not an inherent element of the role, but the specific human people playing it - can get too dependant on their perks of choice to perform well.

    People tunnel for the same reason people run multiple slowdown perks: It's easier. Those perks are strong, and that tactic is deeply difficult for survivors to punish due to a lack of strong defensive tools against it. Players who rely heavily on either are going to notice their games being harder when those things are taken away, but that doesn't prove that the game is flawed such that their role requires those things. It just reveals that those players got dependant on them.

  • vBlossom_
    vBlossom_ Member Posts: 386
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    Survivors got their basekit anti-tunnel. When are Killers getting their basekit slowdown?

    Gens take 90 seconds, map are reworked to be smaller, and have weaker tiles, killers got basekit 2 STBFL stacks:

    Gen-kicking insta-removes 5% and inflicts regression, gen tapping is no more, on top of that medkit nerf.

    If someone is miserable after all of this, I don't know what to say.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 348
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    Yep, of course it is.

    Survivors have no negatives at base kit. Aside from being vulnerable when injured if they're out positioned. Perks plaster fix this, hence why everyone uses some variation of it.

  • TheRealConsent
    TheRealConsent Member Posts: 188
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    Then I really hope you never complain about tunneling, because survivors have a +10% speed boost and endurance for 10 seconds after getting unhooked. Surely you can make it to another loop then outskill the killer, no?

    Also, in I believe the same patch as the changes you mentioned (or right after it):

    • Eruption went bye-bye
    • Call of Brine went bye-bye
    • Overcharge went bye-bye
    • Corrupt got its 1st down removal
    • Ruin reduced to 100% instead of 200%
    • Pop went from 25% of total to 20% of current
    • Pain Resonance lost consistency and total progress, as you now need to meet multiple requirements

    I think all of these accounted for more than 10 seconds of generator time. Heck, 4-5 instances of Pop were very common per game. That alone would have given you another 100-125 seconds of gen time. What's +10s for 5 more gens?

    I'm not saying Pop didn't deserve the nerf, but it didn't deserve to be gutted. That's the same as every other perk here. There's a reason people only run Corrupt/Pain Rest/Pop now. All other gen regression is worthless.

    My point being, again, if you just give half the context of killers doing things 10% faster and generators needing 10s longer, you're ignoring a LOT of what killers lost. Heck, even forcing a slot to be Borrowed Time on almost every survivor was a massive plus. Ignoring the million benefits of that patch you mentioned on the survivor side shows that you're willing to turn a blind-eye.

  • Marc_123
    Marc_123 Member Posts: 3,398
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    When i play Chaos Shuffle it is pretty simple.

    If my team is good with some good loopers and the killer is not, we get our gens and 3-4 escape.

    If my team is not so good and the first goes down pretty fast, we often get in the bad rescue hook cycle. Then often nobody does gens anymore and we don´t escape.

    So - Slowdown would be needed if the team is stronger - and not needed if the killer is stronger.

    The ever balance problem for good and bad players at the same time which is very very difficult.