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Chaos Shuffle is a good social experiment on the need for some base kit anti-tunnel features
I love playing this mode, it’s such a refreshing change of pace, but there’s one thing I have noticed. If killers know there’s no threat of perks like DS, OTR ect then they will tunnel like their life depends on it, which is why such perks are necessary in the main game
But should they need to be necessary? Game modes like this show us how fun the game can be when there’s perk variety, if players aren’t running the same build game after game out of necessity the game becomes so much more fun
It’s why I think a lot of the anti tunnel perks need to nerfed/ reworked and instead have some of their power build into a survivors base kit, just so you’re not completely disadvantaged when you don’t run the same perks game after game, and aren’t heavily limiting your play style/ build just to avoid getting hard tunnelled at 5 gens, allowing a lot more perk variety which is much healthier for the game in the long run
Comments
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Something I've noticed without slow-down is a good amount of the time gens go pretty fast, hoping they add a secondary objective to slow stuff down.
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The funniest thing is that it didn't happen in the first day, so it actually took them a day to realize that they can tunnel at will now.
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Yeah it is a shame, had someone yesterday hard tunnel a survivor out of the game instantly then literally proxy camp every hook they got until you were forced to trade and I was just sat there thinking
“Come on man, it’s just a fun random party mode, chill out and have some fun”
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It also highlighted the need for a secondary objective and why slowdown is important
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Both sides focussing solely on their objective makes the game a lot more unfun for the other side. Sadly, perks are used as a band aid to control these playstyles.
This game mode just showcases it perfectly.
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well, apparently tunneling is so efficient in this game mode that gen slowdown isn't even needed. Broken bottles or high mobility killers and rarely have we gotten more than two gens completed. — Playing this modifier in SoloQ, btw.
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Im just gonna put this here…
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Glad we finished our objectives day 1 @Atsuka_Anarchy
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That's why I think both should effect one another. If the same survivor is hooked consecutively, then gens get a repair speed buff. If hooks are spread amongst survivors, gens get a repair speed slow down. Both stack. I think it's a good compromise that would be healthy for the game. Because I've noticed the same as you with this chaos shuffle, killers need slowdowns cause gens fly and tunneling is still just as strong as it was a few years ago.
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You don’t need anti tunnel perks and mechanics to counter tunneling though.
Cautious play and good chases are a great counter to tunneling.
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You already have BT and anti facecamp basekit anymore and your just asking for Frees at this point Tunneling and camping confirmed by devs are valid strategies and are not ever leaving
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Killers got basekit stacks for STBFL, basekit gen-kick (-5%), what's your point?
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Valid strategies for endgame, maybe, but at five gens, no way.
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Thats your opinion they can still do it at 5 gens
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STBFL since when and ooo 5 seconds so worth
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if a survivor dies with no gens being done, the survivors messed up.
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Do you say that to Killers when all four Survivors escape?
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If a killer fails to kill any survivor, it is in fact their fault.
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That's why game's win condition should be hook oriented. I have too much 7-8 hooks games, where i did absolutely fine and 100% won if tunnel someone out earlier, but i only have 0 or 1 kill instead. I'm bored from hardcore tunneling long time ago, but game tells me that i'm clearly the idiot because of that.
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It just isn't a fun mode because all of the try hard killers who aren't confident enough without playing with their massive slow down builds. 2 out of 3 matches killers just proxy camp the hook and go straight for the tunnel. I did all of the tome challenges and won't be touching again.. If I get tunneled in regular mode at least I have DS and OTR for back up
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The temptation to tunnel is very strong when I know the odds of being remotely punished for it are so low.
We must stay strong brothers.
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I been saying on twitter, which is a hot take:
Base-kit DS (5 sec stun duration, can be used twice)
Base-kit Umbrekable (unlimited usage)
Map offering and add-ons disabled.
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Unbreakable tested by devs said it was way to strong it ain't ever being basekit 100% devs would say the same thing for basekit DS
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which is just unreasonable.
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As a survivor main, I disagree with basekit changes. Perks, yes. Because then those of us who don't see tunnelling alot can continue as normal, and those who do see it alot have perk options. I feel like that is a good compromise.
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I think it showes problems were allready knew existed for very long time.
Tunneling is issue for Survivors and Gen speed is issue for killers.
How about we do something about that base kit and stop the semi-half-baked balance stand on few perks back to back.
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worst I’ve seen yet
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Tunneling needs to not be tied to a perk, they need to completely rework the DS perk, and build in an anti-tunnel mechanic that the game is balanced around.
The other side of it, this mode shows that the game requires some kind of slowdown on a killer. I always say they should do what they do to killer addons like leatherface this coming patch. Nerf the perks, buff the basekit.
Cut the gen defense perks in half and then:
- Basekit gen kick is 10%
- Basekit gen regression is 200%
- Basekit corrupt that lasts 20 seconds
- Basekit corrupt on hex totems that lasts 20 seconds
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Tunneling and camping is waaaay overblown. Scott Jund called everyone out about lying and asked for proof and not a singular person has proved that they get tunneled or camped the majority of their matches.
I get genuinely tunneled in about 1 of every 18-20 matches and have teammates who get tunneled out or camped out in 2-3 of every 30 matches. Stop talking about it and prove it please. Stream your game however much you can so we can see this happen. I’ve never seen it, Scott never seen it and I won’t believe it till I see it.9 -
I would take that deal although I'd argue Corrupt should be 30 seconds 20 seconds is to low
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I don't want to revieve our old discussion but there is still no good way to practice looping.
And cautious play is a lot easier when you have perks like off the record available (I mean the aura protection and the muffled sounds, not the endurance) which you might not have in Chaos Shuffle.
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I think Scott did that for a little bit of fun, not to be taken as the word of God.
There's numerous issues with it, but even that notwithstanding, it's weird to take a CC and prop them up like that.
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I honestly have noticed the opposite. The only time I see gens going faster than I can handle, is if people bring 2-3 toolboxes.
Genspeeds arent really an issue for most killers, as you can counter that by pressuring survivors. The only time I see gens pop quickly without toolboxes is if a killer decides to tunnel and not put any pressure on anyone else.4 -
survivors get power button. The power button allows you to equip any exhaustion perk. Does not cost a perk slot.
Base-kit now adds 10% haste permanently until a another survivor is put into the dying state.
The good thing about these new modifiers is that Dev can use these modifiers as experiments to new modes to modify current dbd. We could see modifier like that where killer gets
→200% regression
→ Base-kit Pain res on every hook
vs
→ The survivor getting a free exhaustion perk
→ unhooked survivor gets 10% permanent haste until another survivor is put into the dying state. Haste buff last's for minimum of 30 seconds.
After that, you can play the mode and see if DBD is better or worse.
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Ah yes, because everyone has the ability to suddenly record tons of games. Thing is, it happens more often than it should, and when it happens, its more effective than it should be (no one should be able to succesfully tunnel at 5 gens without survivors being able to do 3 gens).
Tunnelling should be a last ditch effort for killers because they HAVE to kill someone, not because they CAN. Camping isnt too bad anymore, anti-camp is pretty good at even combatting killers like Bubba proxy-camping.1 -
One thing i noticed in chaos shuffle is that even when killers did tunnel all the gens were done an they would end up with a 1k or sometimes even a 0k as the gens just fly as there were no gen defence. Only games i had were all gens were not done was when someone was throwing the game (afk, teaming, dc, sand bagging on purpose ).
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Basekit DS would be great, but I think these buffs you suggest would require some compensation buffs on the killers side as well.
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Not that it is necessarily to blame, but BHVR made a huge mistake putting "Kill 3 survivors by any means" at the end of the event archive.
I worked through the entire archive 2 hooking every survivor and letting everyone escape in the end. I was doing way more than should be asked to ensure that everyone was happy with the results of the trial, even if for some reason they did not enjoy it in the moment. …until I reached the last archive challenge.
I did not want to spend any more than 1 game completing the archive, so I instantly played like a miserable POS who didn't care about the survivor's feelings.2 -
I would agree for basekit 3-second DS in exchange for basekit Lightborn and Enduring.
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Game mode WAS insanely fun. At the beginning. Now it's plagued with Skull Merchants, Twins, and tunneling and slugging sweats desperate to make another limited-time fun game mode miserable for everyone else while taunting you with "ggez" in chat.
Unless something will be done about that, there's no point in keeping or introducing any other modifiers to this game because killers will ruin it as they did with My Little Oni.
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It's an experiment on how many players uses certain perks as a crutch. You take certain things away and suddenly anything goes, and that's refreshing to experience. Of course there are many caveats to saying something is a crutch, often some perks are just necessary because of game design, but others less so and it shows when someone can't function without it.
The mode is still fun and competitive tryhards are always going to exist no matter where they are, but yeah it could with some adjustments in the future.
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So then one must ask, would we be removing flashlights? Because they'd serve no purpose at all.
Also, those buffs aren't equivalent. Basekit enduring is psychotic.
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These are equivalent buffs: you want to protect survivors from killers' scummy playstyle, so it's only fair killers also get some protection against survivors' scummy playstyles.
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So you just played like every survivor does against killer for your last archive?
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Fr bro lol miss is with that mess. 😂
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They are buffing sabo, so as long as they don't revert the changes survivors will have another possible objective that will actually be sorta worth it.
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.
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I'm definitely agreeing with the secondary objective, maybe an item of sorts that buffs whatever team holds it and there's something each side can do to steal it back. That would maybe slow matches a bit and give players more chances to interact before the trial is decided.
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Chaos Shuffle just shows us why there is a reason why certain perks are used the most
And adding more perks as basekit will only makes things worse
For example:
Who uses BT anymore, it's free
But the 5% progression loss doesn't feel like enough so Killers pile on the Gen regression perks to make up for it… for better or worse
Now if they did release the Basrkit Unbreakable Survivors would take advantage of it and start chasing the Killer to distract them and allow the downed Survivor to pick themselves up
Or if they got rid if the Basekit Pop and replaced it with Ruin things would get worse… Survivors can't leave the Gen to save for fear of Ruin taking away their progress (even though it wouldn't be that much… .25 charges per second)
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For the people being disingenuous, the only way to counter tunneling is to become a god tier looper. Thats literally it. Killers are built with more speed than survivors, not to mention multiple haste perks annd andd ons and no matter how long you run they will catch you which is the point. So if they decide to tunnel you and you’re not a god tier looper then you’re just screwed.
So basically we are telling all survivors “if you dont wanna get tunneled, get good and be the top 5 percent of players!” So basically all survivors have to be there with no beginner or intermediate skill levels to counter tunneling. Also let’s be real, how many of us have played with someone who was that god tier looper who ran the killer for 3-5 gens and then had the killer rage out on them for it?
Those same killers who will complain about “Gen speeds are too fast! Nerf gens!” are the same ones who lost their gens because they committed to trying to hard tunnel one survivor at 5 gens who happened to be the god tier looper of their group, instead if knowing when to give up and go after someone else.
For the record I do think that something needs to equally be done about making anti-tunnel basekit as well as slowing down gen speeds but this idea that countering tunneling is super easy and readily available is BS.
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