So, about the Invocation....

I agree with this, I posted a thread a while back saying that Invocations will always be a problem if they are balanced around time. if the fundamental balance of invocations is centered around time, and reduced significantly the more people that do it:

• If you make the effect strong, it becomes extremely profitable for SWFs, and thus needs a hefty trade off (such as the perrma broken effect) to give it meaningful counter play, and that trade off is usually FAR too harsh for soloQ to consider use.
• If you make the effect weak, then it becomes something that only SWFs ever even consider using for a goof, and the perk type will die off as memes the same way Teamwork perks did.

There are considerations you may want to factor in is a minimum participation requirement, and the effect of multiple people running invocation perks.

Though this thread of mine got too focused on my proposed change to Weaving Spiders, the core principle is still the direction I would go

Proposed Template

• Invocation perks are standardised to 60 seconds.
• Invocation can only be initiated by a player with an invocation perk.
• Charges are acquired by a player sitting at the salt ring, at a rate of 1 charge per second, regardless of the number players taking part.
• Invocation progress will degrade at a rate of 2 charges per second when no survivor is present.
• Invocation perks have a primary effect (granted to any survivor equipping an Invocation perk) and a bonus effect for other survivors taking part in the ritual (only the bonuses of the initial invocation are granted).
• Each survivor must sit at the circle for 20s to gain the related primary effects of their perks and the related bonus effects of the invoked perk. When the invocation is completed these rewards are granted.
• Once an invocation been completed, the salt ring burns to indicate it can no longer be used.

Unfortunately it's still scaled by the number of people who do it… which was the element I wanted to be removed. It should ALWAYS take 60s to my mind.

At present for 2-4 players it takes 40-24s for 2-4 players respectively. If a whole team takes it, it goes to 30-15s for 2-4 players respectively. Having this effect available with just 15s was the exact thing I wanted to avoid. Even if the killer realises what is going on, just the simple walking time alone would mean the killer can't stop it.

The time should be the same, and invocations should have a primary effect for the holder of the perk, and a bonus effect for anyone who takes part.

The main point of my post was the template…. I modified Invocation: Weaving Spiders to allow multiple players to participate in an invocation and get a reward for themselves for doing so, instead of a global effect that doesn't make sense for other people to take part. However sadly that's the part that got focused in the thread…. :(

Sure, and having an associated weakness is probably the most important point of any mechanic. The trade off for invocations immediately is obviously the sacrifice of gen progress time, and then of course the potential of being caught in basement, one of the worst dead zones that exist in DBD. Those are two weaknesses to mitigate the perk type, but I accept with my original attempt at those weaknesses may have not been enough.

You do raise a good point though that the time saving largely doesn't matter now I guess, saving 20-30s at best on the invocation is probably not worth the travel time to basement. 60s is more than serviceable for a solo effort, and it does still have the broken effect so… when you think of it that way, that's probably fine.

I was referring to the PTB version.

It still has the teammates reducing the time of the invocation effect does it not? (I don't have access to the PTB, I have to watch a variety of content creators to see what's up).

I prefer your suggestion of having it be 60s, and grant a bonus for people who join the invocation, but probably would need a minimum participation requirement so people can't just sit down at the end and amplify the effect.