KNOCK OUT perk and slugging playstyle

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  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,228
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    Sometimes slugging is fun, I like to run knock out with 3rd seal on Billy or Oni , I won't lie though whenever I run this build is when I see the most toxic end game chats directed at me calling me everything under the sun and hoping I die

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 610
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    Have you ever tried it on Skull Merchant? Your drones can apply 3rd Seal because why not

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,228
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    Oh wow I wasn't aware of that lol now you just gave the skull merchant haters more ammo

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Ya, he talks about bloodpoint, I get it. I also don't care about bloodpoint. However, the hooks always have their meaning/point.

    Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Pop Goes the Weasel, Surge, Call of Brine, etc.😑

    ??? Don't they mean anything???

    You don't want to pick 'boring' (as you said) regression perks, you want to pick many other interesting perks (such as revealing-aura perks, exposed perks, oblivious perks, exit gate perks, etc.) but still want to have high regression speed?? What the…, bro?? Don't be too greedy, bro. If so, please think about what happen if all survivors want to pick chasing/escaping perks (DS, Dead Hard, Boil Over,…) while still wanting to have high progression speed, and even high-speed selfcare?

    You can't choose them all, bro.

    As I said, I still see you blame a lot for regression while still wanting to have many other effective perks. It means that you don't know why the gens fly, and you have to choose the bad play just to win.

    As either a survivor or a killer, winning is not the most important thing to me. What I want is decent chasing and decent play. I can lose as long as I have fun with my opponents. I want to see the word 'GGWP' in the chat dialogue.

    As I said, I've seen many good killers who can get 4K and have no need to camp, tunnel or slug. Many of them also don't use regression perks. Why don't you watch TTV more to learn how they protect the gens?

    My main killer is The Artist, and I know how to use my crows to protect the gens and deal with good looping survivors. Perhaps, you chose the wrong killer who didn't fit your playstyle. Or perhaps, you didn't know how to make good use of the basekit.

    You can also search such as 'Deathslinger/Nurse/Blight/… montage dbd' (any killer you want) on YouTube to see how well they use the basekit.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    You can vent your anger from time to time, but hopefully you don't overdo it 😓.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,228
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    I never talk bad to people in the chat it's not even worth it but some people feel like they didn't do anything unless they insult you, unfortunately there's alot of people that way in this community, I understand when people are frustrated but telling people to end themselves and all that nonsense is absolutely unacceptable no matter what they did to you in the game , it's just a game at the end of it all , I'll gg and be humble win or lose

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,091
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    You frame it as if Bond/Empathy only exists to counter Knockout and offer no value if the Killer doesn't bring the perk which is definitely not the case especially in Solo Queue where knowing where your teammates are is important.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Remember, you mentioned that "I'm not sure what perks you brought, but Bond, Aftercare and Empathy both counter Knockout". It means you want people to bring these perks to counter 'Knock Out'.

    And I replied "I usually use perks related to gens speed or chasing. Sadly, I can't always bring some other perks just to counter Knock Out".

    And now you mention Bond/Empathy as if are powerful, and as a soloq I should bring it all the time, LOL.

    I think 'Archol123' has the answer for you.

    I know what benefits Bond/Empathy brings, but this thread is about 'KNOCK OUT' playstyle, and not all people bring Bond/Empathy, just like me.

    In a normal match, I can guess where my teammates are by looking at the dying aura, then person-on-hook aura, and then the doing/leaving-gen icon, then the chasing icon. But first I have to see the dying teammate's position to guess.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,474
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    The issue is more likely the chase times. You've got an indoor map with tight rooms which are really the only ones ghostface is good on. If he can down you quickly knockout is going to hurt, but it would hurt a SWF as well. But if someone gets a good chase (or on some maps just a long sprint), the survivors will have plenty of time to find each other and heal up which the killer will have made no progress from hooks.

    In my experience as a pure soloq survivor, knock out is annoying because it just slows down what was going to happen. Games we lost, we would have lost anyway if the killer hooked us, and games we won we would have won anyway. It's an annoying perk to be sure, but even if someone on the team doesn't have the right build it's not unbeatable if the matchup is otherwise even.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Great comment, bro!

    Even when we found teammates, we were exposed while healing.

    'Night Shroud', it was difficult to determine where the killer was while finding dying teammates.

    'Knock Out' really makes sense.

  • BbQz
    BbQz Member Posts: 83
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    You give players the capability to ruin each other's games they will gladly take it and embrace it. Dbd has a freedom problem that slowly being fixed since release. The devs apparently don't have a person who "plays nasty" and there test games are groups of friends with unspoken rules you can see it clearly by looking at the game from release to now.

    While almost any other game has limits" like the creators predicted people will be abusive so they block off your teams spawn from the opponent dbd doesn't even consider that a issue slugging tunneling camping. They are allowed because they are "strategies" but I know a not so insignificant group of people don't care about getting a 4k as much as ruining the time of 1-2 players as being able to flex power over some one is a very killer like mind set this game is very primed and ready for groups of people on both sides of the fence going in with the only goal of making some one of as many people as possible miserable.

    So yeah survivors and killers shouldn't have the power to ruin people's games remove and replace theses mechanics

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,316
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    Using slugging has it down sides too it means you don't get emblems score on devout category so it denies likely pip. But with hooks you get pips and reach better grades. Reaching red grade is still big goal for many. Also bleedouts don't count as kills on xbox at least so winning that way does not have any real reward and also less bp. So hooking even it's more risky way to win now on is still superior way to win. I personally probably use agitation and mad grip to get my hooks and sacrifices to entity.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,589
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    It’s still less consistent than hooking yeah, but with Knockout maybe not so much. It also has the benefit of avoiding all the hook related perks. Like if you count how many perks not hooking prevents from activating each match it’s actually a lot. I agree your premise, but the specific killer can alter that a lot as some have more synergy with slugging such as Onryo for just one example that may push slugging over hooking. I think mad grips a meme perk personally. Agitation is one of those perks that I think the community highly over values. Very, very rarely have I ever been like, yeah Agitation had a huge impact here. If we’re using it for consistent scourge hooks that also seems silly. Two perk slots to make one perk slot function how it should sounds like a bad deal.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
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    I would not call it a freedom problem, because that just sounds very wrong...

    The issue is by nature of the game as asymmetrical that bullying just works different than in other games, because in those games to bully people you play either optimal or very risky, which in both cases really is not an issue, whereas in dbd that is not the case. Also camping and tunneling are not toxic or bullying, does not mean they should not get addressed because they are unfun, it is just a different reason.

    If someone wants to play in that way would the best thing to counteract this not just be a concede button? So once they beat you the game just ends and they cannot really bm you on the floor? I don't really see the bm as an issue but I think a concede button is a good idea in general, so while I don't agree with the reasoning I agree with the solution.

  • warp1die
    warp1die Member Posts: 419
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    A slug is the most beautiful thing that can happen in the life of any killer. When killers realize how useful this strategy is in everyday play. The time savings are simply colossal. Just think, how useless is it to hang survivors on a hook? When could this wasted time be spent on something really important. I'm talking about the chase. The most fun part of the game. The eternal chase is all that is needed for the happiness of all parties.

    The concept of hooks is outdated in its essence and brings only disappointment to all parties. But ditching the grappling hooks in favor of the slug meta. You take all those perks out of the equation on both the survivor and killer side. Killers no longer have to worry about all those regression perks like Pain Resonance and Pop. Moreover, the developers themselves are going to nerf them so that the killers can try something more interesting.

    In the end, grappling hooks only benefit survivors by giving them too many upgrades, but eliminating grappling hooks from their game. Killers will be able to render survivors' perks useless and only at the cost of a nerfed regression meta. You also won’t have to worry about all the toxic weapons the survivors have in the form of flashlights and sabotage. Everyone has long known that they are taken by people who want to make the killers unhappy. I've seen all these 5 second lobbies many times, survivors changing equipment and character.

    The good news for survivors is that they will not be victims of camping and tunneling. What does it mean that a survivor will be able to spend the entire match in the game, and not be the first to be taken out in a short time. To me, it's a small price to pay for a full-fledged game with chases instead of camping and tunneling.

    I declare with responsibility as a certified Doctor-Slug. By adopting the slug meta, you will feel much happier than living in a meta of 4 regressive benefits and the eternal race for hooks.

    Actually, it's better to watch this video. It completely reflects the entire path of how killers reach such a life. Just insert what you don't like here. Be it camping, tunneling, Nurse and much more. You yourself created these monsters and now for some reason you don’t want to play with them.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    I've never heard "camping/tunneling/slugging" considered "strategies" in any tournament.

    All formal strategies I heard are all about "protecting the gens", and the most popular one is "3 gens".

    But as you said, they can be implicitly understood as informal strategies. BHVR can not remove these toxic playstyles because there are still many noob killers who don't have any other way to win, and many of them can't reach even 1K. I still hope they'll fix 'Knock Out' as well as release some effective mechanisms that encourage players not to do toxic play.

    If BHVR completely removes these toxic playstyles, they may lose a number of players. However, if they don't somehow restrict it, they can lose other potential players as well. I invited my friend to play with me, but he decided not to buy the game after a few times he saw me being ruined.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    "I declare with responsibility as a certified Doctor-Slug."

    I've met many killers who have the same playstyle as you (perhaps for the same reason), but if you don't use "Knock Out", it's no problem, bro.

    However, this game is always considered "Killers side", never "Survivors side", you know? and of course, there must be reasons to call it that.

    People have many many reasons why they camp, tunnel or slug. The truth is that good killers still have 4K without toxic play.

    Many killers blame gens flying. I think because they have never played survivors and never faced good killers.

    As I said, I don't consider 'slugging' as a big problem, as long as the killers don't use 'Knock Out' to slug.

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 1,893
    edited June 2
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    This is the best and easiest way to play killer

    Just equip Knock Out and Ultimate Weapon

    Down a survivor and immediately open the nearest locker for the full effect

    Post edited by Rudjohns on
  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    exactly, that's it haha!! 😂 Some other perks can include: Lethal Pursuer, A Nurse's Calling, Coulrophobia, Awakened Awareness (carry then drop), Darkness Revealed, Deerstalker, Face the Darkness

    I still don't know how 'Blueberry' he can confidently handle it as a soloq as he said in a comment somewhere above.

  • Stroggz
    Stroggz Member Posts: 498
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    Slugging playstyle helped me overcome game burnout, to be honest. All he hook perks are way to obnoxious, all the ways survs have to deny you from hooking and the time you waste to do it.

  • warp1die
    warp1die Member Posts: 419
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    Depends on how much I want to play slug. Until the promised increase in sabotage. I had enough of a mixed slug without a knockout. Now I'll probably switch to a pure slug build with knockout. Just like during the threat of the anticamp system during the PTB.

    So that you understand.

    Mixed slug

    Clean slug

    This game is mainly a with SWF side. All other sides are just setting up a SWF under the dictatorship. It sometimes amazes me how people ignore this bull in a china shop. All the misfortunes of solo survivors and killers occur because of a SWF. Solo survivors literally suffer for the sins of a SWF, and killers preemptively hit any lobby in fear of running into a SWF.

    The only way out would be to create a separate regime.

    Solomode. Every 1-2 players receive a built-in Decisive Strike and Off the Record for each hook stage for 120 seconds until a noticeable action is made. They become more powerful if you take the perks of the same name. Plus, in case of a slug, when there are 2 survivors left, each acquires Decisive Strike, Off the Record and Unbreakable without noticeable actions.

    Leave all other tactics in the form of camping, tunneling and slugging to a mode of 3-4 people with a bot, where there will not be all the built-in protections, since a SWF will easily win against such killers.

    Where are these good killers? When tested, they turn out to be not so good, but simply kill survivors who refuse to hold M1 in any incomprehensible situation or sabotage the game by removing themselves from the hook. And all you need to win the game as a survivor is to hold M1 in any unclear situation. One survivor per generator. Each one must have a separate generator for repairs, and not everyone in 3 suffers from 1 generator.

    I always keep these two pictures as visual evidence of why survivors lose. Because nothing has changed in solo play over many years of playing. I really respect the Bond perk because it allows me to avoid many problems in the game, as well as understand what to expect from the team.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,316
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    Yeah I know some killers are really strong on slugging every onryo used to slug to eventual get the condemn mori. I haven't faced them anymore though it did seem like lot of effort still.

    Well my build will debend on update but if sabo becomes meta I might have to use those perk I actually meant iron grasp instead mad grit. I don't know what the situation is on ptb how bad it is? As Im on console. But I just want be able to hook.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    I don't have any problem to face slugging killers, as long as they don't use 'Knock Out'.

    As a killer, I still want to hook people, it's fun to hear them scream. I don't see any fun when leaving survivors to bleed to death.

    The most important thing to me is a nice game. I don't always need to win (either as a survivor or a killer).

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Finally, I catch this as the key idea in your paragraph: "… fear of running into a SWF."

    I don't have any fear of facing them. I know they'll make my trial more fun, I'll have at least 1 decent chase and I can ignore all the gens. Enjoying the fun of the match is the most essential thing to me. So I don't feel angry when I lose. If you face toxic-words players, they will offend you in chat dialogue regardless of whether you win or lose, they always have a reason to have toxic manners. So why care so much about those who are in the minority?

    Like when playing 'Indie' games, do you have fun playing [Very] Easy Mode?

    Have you ever searched "bully squad dbd" on YouTube? I mean, winning 4K with nice play is possible.

    "SWF side"? I think this word is suitable for all the 'co-op online' games, not just DBD. In comparison to 'single play' [soloq], this game is a "killer side" as people said a lot. It's easy to understand because to confront 4 survivors, to create pressure, to create suspense, the killers must have strong basekits and effective perks.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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  • warp1die
    warp1die Member Posts: 419
    edited June 2
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    I was rather saying that someone will have to pay for everything. For a nerf to the entire regression, another useless perk and another killer who will be forgotten in two weeks. This is simply the law of balance in the universe. When you take something, you must give something in return.

    And who will pay for all the SWF? Of course not. All the anger of the killers will fall primarily on the solo survivors.

    It's not me who wants easy games.

    I want to have a chance to win in a fair game. To win in the current mode, you must consider any lobby as SWF. It means acting accordingly and playing as if your life depended on it. Because if you make a mistake in your calculations, you simply won’t be able to catch up with the SWF if you played with them as solo survivors in a relaxed manner on a fan build.

    Yes, it's harsh and unfair, but what can you do. This is the current game under the yoke of SWF. Always prepare for the worst.

    I'd love to go solo mode with hooks, where they would add built-in Decisive Strike, Off the Record and Unbreakable for the survivors to protect them from camping, tunneling, and slugs. Because it guaranteed me fair games without connection, where I can play with hooks. And those who still want to camp, tunnel and slug would go to the SWF mode.

    I also have a similar rule regarding solo survivors. Any killer camper will not prove otherwise. That's if he doesn't come for me personally. So somewhere the killer is camping with a survivor.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521
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    I don't see anything wrong with slugging for tempo, knock out just makes it a bit more efficient. The perk is probably undervalued at the moment as it's a better slowdown perk than people realize. Even against a SWF yeah they can call out where they are but the recovery will still be noticeably slower.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Ya, if SWF are identified in the lobby, precautions are necessary. You can choose how to face them.

    As I see when playing as a killer, just around 10-15% of all of my trials are SWF or a bully team. Regardless of whether I win or lose, the toxic players always are. So imo, I don't need to care much about that.

    Just, I don't play PTB, so I don't really know what can happen in the coming meta. For now, I still do good at around 3-4K without bad play.

    Over 70% of my trials are as a survivor, so I understand how survivors feel when playing as a soloq. So, when I play as a killer, I don't want to do bad play. Sometimes I'm sure of the win, so I gift them mercy.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,459
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    If people really hated slugging, they would be making forums posts, telling BHVR they shouldn't be buffing toolbox sabotages, because sabotages encourages slugging.

    But let's be super real here. Many survivors don't hate slugging… they only hate slugging when it's the killer's choice to slug. Many survivors are 100% ok with slugging when the survivors are forcing the killer to slug.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Ya, as I said in the main post, slugging is not a big problem. The main problem is 'Knock Out' 😀

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,316
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    That's fine mindset but not all games are winnable some you just lose without much of chance unfortunately. But it goes both ways. I would say more games on survivor are unwinnable. You can really never know how match will end so I just go out there do what I can get some hooks if I win I can play more fair way. I take considerarion other side but if I lose I play as hard as I can next games to win. Today first game I got destroyed by swf 3 gens done in first chase which was only 30-40s long. Then went to play next games much harder and now im on 5 wins streak.

  • Starr43
    Starr43 Member Posts: 872
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    someone probably already said this but hop in a locker if you’re going to go down. It counters knockout so your aura will never be hidden.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    I don't want people to get lost in this discussion, so I've hidden the 4 names and perks. The results are already in the 4-survivors down icons on the left. We were all soloq, different perks combo, and faced the Ghostface ('KnockOut' + 'exposed/undetectable' basekit + revealing-aura perks).

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Haha just nearly like when I don't want to be a victim of 'Tombstone', I hop in a locker 😂. I get it, bro, but it's dependent on the situation at the time.

  • Nick
    Nick Member Posts: 1,224
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    Wait you're telling me to watch people on Twitch and Youtube to learn how to play? Bro I have like 16.000 hours on DBD I don't need any tutorials. You're completely missing the point.

    People hate to get camped, tunneled, or to play against Pain Res + Pop every game. Yet those strategies and perks are needed if you want consistent results vs good players. I could beat any solo survivor team with random perks, but if I were to play my own SWF, who all have around my hours, you'd be able to count the hooks on one hand. Because their objective is around 4 minutes (5 generators) and my objective is 3 kills (9 stages) which I would not be able to do in 4 minutes. As my friends won't be going down instantly over and over like 90% of the DBD playerbase.

    I never EVER want to see you complain about tunneling and camping. As your solution is "Just put on Pain Res + Pop". And even mentioning Call of Brine, which increases regression from 100% to 125% for a whopping 60 seconds (which is 3.75 seconds extra regression haha!). If you can even let the generator regress for that long!

  • Barbarossa2020
    Barbarossa2020 Member Posts: 1,370
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    So full sabo squads shouldn't exist either then?

    Survs abusing boil over in rpd should have been banned as well?

    Both "sides" can play "toxic".

    It''s a game with no ladder of ranking so just enjoy your own game, want to be a slugging face camper go for it. Want to tbag and flashlight/sabo spam go for it.

    When you stop caring about results in dbd, you'll enjoy it more.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    At the lobby, if the killers guess the foes are a bully team, and the killers think they can't handle them decently, they can go for whatever bad playstyle they want. But if they do it all the time, all of their trials, that's just their excuse 🙃.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    16k hours doesn't mean you play well, I've seen many high-P killers still keep playing toxic. Meanwhile, there are new P0-P1 killers with at least 1 green perk but they play very nice, and their skills are very good.

    You complain about regression, you say you don't want to use regression-related perks and want to use other interesting perks. So I just listed some perks to say that you shouldn't be too greedy if you want this and that, it's impossible. Only 4 slots to put perks in, you can't have everything as if you have 16 slots.

    But why did you suddenly turn 180 degrees? Up there you clearly complained a lot about regression, so you must be playing toxic. Now you bring in your friends (because they play SWF well) as an excuse. What a contradiction haha!!

    Ya, you said, "I could beat any solo survivor team with random perks". Well, even for a newbie with some basic perks, if they play toxic, it's still normal to get 4K.

    When I played as a killer, only about 10-15% of my matches were SWF. And I'm not haunted by that 10-15%, I still maintain a nice playing style. I don't care too much about winning, as long as the trial is interesting ('ggwp'), and if I'm lucky I still reach 4K.

    In the example where you drag your friend in, you still play the role of a killer, which proves that you rarely play the role of a survivor. If you complain about regression, why do gens fly, etc. well, try playing soloq survivor, when you face a good killer (especially the Nurse), you will see how difficult it is to complete 5 gens and escape. It's not for nothing that this game is called "killer side". Even the new meta, which increases sabo quicker, is still mostly useful for SWF, as some survivors' perks have been nerfed.

    In short, I tell you to watch more TTV and YT because there are pro players there, I don't know if they have played more than 16k hours like you, but they are definitely better than you, so they can still reach 4K and still maintain their nice style. Play nice, even when they face a bullying team. So, all your words are just excuses.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,171
    edited June 5
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    Because you can't know how the game is going to go until it is too late. You need to stop asking killers to play nicer, and start asking why they aren't. It is because if you play nice, and you are going against a SWF sweat squad, then they bully the hell out of you the whole game, and by the time you REALIZE that it is a SFW sweat squad, there is no coming back from it, because they probably finished 3 gens in your first chase.

    So the only option for killers is to play as hard as they can, assuming that everyone is a sweat squad until proven otherwise. The problem, is that by the time you realize that it is not a sweat squad, a survivor probably already gave up, they have 0-1 gens done, and the game is effectively over.

    But now you see the dilemma. Why should i play nice when it might result in me getting bullied?

    You see the problem?

    What needs to be done is the very thing tru3ta1ent constantly says. They need to incentivize hooks instead of kills, and start incentivizing chases instead of tunneling and camping. You do that, and tunneling and camping go away. And, in the egregious cases, we can have basekit mechanics like the AFC in place that prevent it.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Ya, the key word is "incentivize". I also wrote a thread about this. I totally agree!

    About your explanation "by the time you REALIZE that it is a SFW sweat squad, there is no coming back from it" »»» So, my answers for you are as I do in a few comments above:

    • "When I played as a killer, only about 10-15% of my matches were SWF. And I'm not haunted by that 10-15%, I still maintain a nice playing style. I don't care too much about winning, as long as the trial is interesting ('ggwp'), and if I'm lucky I still reach 4K."
    • "At the lobby, if the killers guess the foes are a bully team, and the killers think they can't handle them decently, they can go for whatever bad playstyle they want. But if they do it all the time, all of their trials, that's just their excuse 🙃." And: yes, you can't predict accurately every time, but that can't be used as an excuse.

    That's it. As I see it, many people seem to use the "SWF" as an excuse, while that percentage is only a minority, and not all SWF groups are good. And, when I play as a survivor, I rarely coop with a team of 2 or 3. Most of them are also soloq.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,171
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    Its not an excuse. Nobody likes to lose, and they especially don't like to lose when the team is being super toxic, teabagging at the gates, and calling you racial slurs at the end of the game.

    Just because something is rare, doesn't mean it is good. And because of that killers are going to over index on going against that type of team. It doesn't matter if "most players are solo queue"

    Imagine there was a killer offering that did the following:

    • The killer permanently moves at 200% movement speed
    • The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed
    • The killer is able to mori all survivors immediately
    • All survivors are permanently exposed
    • All survivors repair speeds are reduced by 50%
    • The killer gets max bloodpoints in all categories.

    But, this offering had a 1% chance to appear in the bloodweb.

    That means that statistically you'll see this maybe 1 out of every 100 games, and maybe less as some killers might not use such an offering. But, do you think that survivors would play chill all the time and just say "oh well" when they run into a killer with that offering? Or would they play assuming that every killer is going to run that offering?

    Lastly, nobody flips it on the survivors side. Why is it that the killer is the one that has to "play nice" why can't the survivors "play nice" at not gen rush, or flashlight save, or pallet save, or use DS offensively etc.? Why is it always on the killer to "play nice"

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 899
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    I think the issue in this case more than anything else was facing a Ghostface on an indoor map, all the more so as a solo group. Ghostface is actually incredibly strong on indoor maps, even highly-coordinated tournament teams with precise call-outs that practice indoor vs. Ghostface regularly have trouble against it and get 4k'd. Him slugging with Knock Out just added to the issue, it does not itself constitute the issue. Him supposedly choosing to bleed you out after having downed all of you, well, there is something to be said about the possibility of people unhooking themselves, or having things such as Flip-Flop and/or Power Struggle. But I agree that it is pretty obnoxious and something the devs should long have addressed, such as at the very least with the option to let the Entity end your suffering and surrender.

    As for Knock Out (and Third Seal) specifically and the slugging playstyle at large. Well, first of all, while it isn't actually nearly as "useless" against SWF teams as it is sometimes made out to, it does have to be noted that it is certainly much less potent in those scenarios, and that keeps the build and playstyle in check because killers will rarely employ it given the ever-looming threat that the people they are facing are on external means of communication. Even in general, slugging-oriented playstyles (with and without Knock Out/Third Seal) are incredibly rare to encounter. It really does not pose a big problem. I play quite a bit of DbD, and I almost never encounter this on survivor. Neither do the people I know and watch. The one time in a blue moon this happens, you could even just refuse to play, go next (disconnecting if need be) and be on your merry way to dozens if not hundreds of matches without encountering it.

    But I will even go further and say slugging strategies are a welcome change of pace and gameflow and make for very engaging and exciting matches, for both roles. There is very little downtime of just going through the motions of picking up and hooking people/being carried and twiddling thumbs on hook, no boring camping of hooks, no tunnelling someone out that can make the match a foregone conclusion early on, constant chases and pressure, unique gameplay interactions and decisions revolving around finding and playing around slugs, when to leave them and when to aggressively try to help them and how and so on, and the game is never over until it is because the survivors can recover fully even from a full slug, and this constant tension and possibility for the match to turn around is very exciting, as opposed to the many stale, foregone conclusions that can be present in normal matches where people are on death hook or dead with barely 2 gens done, someone is getting camped in basement or otherwise impossible to be saved, et cetera. Plus I have never understood why people dislike being on the floor to begin with, as opposed to being on a hook - you have more agency and things to do while slugged than you do hooked.

    I for one would wish to encounter this playstyle more often. For anyone here looking for a fun way to employ slugging, here's a basic go-to build I like to use (on M1 killers, of course): Knock Out, Infectious Fright, Barbecue and then 1 slowdown perk, such as Corrupt, Ruin, Surge, Sloppy or the like. What you do is fairly simple: You down someone, and if you get an Infectious proc, you slug to chase them; if you don't get a proc, you hook them and let Barbecue lead you to your next targets instead. Obviously over the course of the match situations will arise where your decision-making will be a bit less simplistic than this and can stray from it, but this basic play paradigm will get you far and it will be fun and viable. Ultimate Weapon can also be used in Infectious' place. You can also of course go for a slugging playstyle without Knock Out. I don't think it's viable on M1 killers to do so ("viable" in the sense of allowing you to consistently win, if winning means to kill as many survivors as possible), but "winning" isn't everything - the low-downtime, constant-chase playstyle is very fun, and if you don't care so much that some survivors escape sometimes, it's an enjoyable way of playing and a good way to maximize your chase time and practice chasing. And on stronger, snowball-ier killers, it's a viable strategy even without Knock Out or Third Seal, just using chase and slowdown perks.

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    Hahaha, if that's not justification then what is?

    Well, you know, because you think like that, you think other people think like you. But the reality is different. And the rate of 10-15% that I gave is a typical one. Think:

    • Most survivors are soloq, and even when playing as a survivor, I rarely team up with other 2-3 person SWF teams.
    • When I played as a killer, only 10-15% encountered SWF, and it's unclear how many of them were good

    In short, just admit that you can't win with good play, so you have to play in bad ways. Let's just admit that many people still play much better than you (in fact, it's on TTV and YT, you can see for yourself), why do you keep trying to make excuses?

    About such things as gen rush, flashlight save, pallet save, DS, etc. Oh wow, how can you compare like that? What a smart comparison!

    • Those things are the means to survive, just like killers also have the killing means. Remember, killers also have very strong basekits and very effective perks.
    • Using a flashlight, using a pallet, looping... these are skills that take a lot of practice to master. On the other hand, camping, tunneling and slugging are things that even a newbie can do well.
    • "Great skill checks" also require skill to be successful every time.
    • "Bad play" survivors are people who do nothing, don't have the guts to do anything, they don't do gens, don't rescue, just hide, holding the game hostage. Most of them are hatch players. Surviving that way is considered "bad play".
    • "Nice play" survivors are people who enthusiastically participate in their survival mission, even when they are already in phase 2 and injured.
    • "Nice play" killers are people who can win 4K in a decent play.

    Many people have said that there are killers who are used to bad play at the beginning. So when they win a lot that way, they match with high-rank survivors and then they complain why is this and why is that? A lot of killers complain about why genes fly, but when they play as survivors they can't do the same thing haha. Likewise, a lot of complaints about looping, but they can't do the same. The problem lies in skills.

    Do people admire and follow 'FAKER' because of his skills in LOL, or because he plays badly? That's it!! Do you get it?

  • HEX_DEAD_BY_AI
    HEX_DEAD_BY_AI Member Posts: 124
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    The way you describe 'Knock Out' + 'Barbecue' shows you're not overusing it. I appreciate that!

    And yes, I agree, as I wrote on the topic, slugging is not the big problem. The problem is 'KNOCK OUT'. And here, we have Ghostface with Night Shroud + revealing-aura perks.

    But there are still people who think Ghostface is weak 😶, and can handle this situation as a soloq survivor.

  • Barbarossa2020
    Barbarossa2020 Member Posts: 1,370
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    There is no ladder in dbd, so there is no ""bad" play style, some are more suited for the once a month rank that only matters to you.

    But if you play dbd for fun, then however you enjoy it is up to you.

  • A_Gamers_Dead_Body
    A_Gamers_Dead_Body Member Posts: 99
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    The way I see it, its just another way to play the game. Maybe the player got bored of hooking or dealing with hooks so they elected to play a different way.

    There is no RIGHT way to play killer, the goal of killer is to…kill. If they can manage to bleed you out then I say good on them for being ingenuitive.

    What it seems like is that YOU just dont like being on the receiving end of it.