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So what perks do survivors complain about now?
Pain Res nerfed
Pop nerfed
Ultimate Weapon nerfed
What's next?
Answers
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Survivors weren't complaining about them, which is why I didn't mention them.
0 -
You made this thread so why don't you just tell us bro
39 -
NoEd next prolly, then bamboozle, and maybe DMS after that!
6 -
The year after next, they will demand a nerf because they cannot enjoy the all-boon totem configuration + boilover + sabotage configuration due to shattered hopes.
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Just a reminder that the perk/meta overhauls started in update 6.1 with survivor perks being nerfed into the ground because killers were complaining about facing the same perks every game. I'm not sure why so many are still surprised when the same occurs to them.
39 -
THIS! It's always a problem when killers/ killer perks finally get the necessary nerf, but where's that same energy when survivor perks get nerfed, especially unreasonably so. (Ahem…Adren….)
15 -
Please tell me how will killer players play now when perks that gave them more chances to win in the game got nerfed?
Or do you by chance think killer players were in such a good spot that they needed these nerfs? I'd like to remind you kindly that not every killer player plays only Nurse, Blight or Spirit.
6 -
Please tell me how will killer players will play now when perks that gave them more chances to win in the game got nerfed?
Does this only work for killers, or do survivors also get to throw a tantrum when, for instance, Made for This got nerfed?
Or do you by chance killer players were in such a good spot that they needed these nerfs? I'd like to remind you kindly that not every killer player plays only Nurse, Blight or Spirit.
Considering the stats point out that killers win far more than they lose, yeah, they kinda are in a really good spot. And no, that's not just Nurse, Blight and Spirit.
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unforeseen
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Killers need means to slowdown because they can't have all 4 survivors away from gens. Devs want to promote chase play but instead of buffing chase perks they nerf gen defense. Best logic ever.
Killers ''win'' so often because the situation with survivors dying on the first hook intentionally still hasn't been resolved. The kill rates for many pub-stomper killers remains high exactly because some people do die at 5 gens on purpose which then often results into 3 or 4 man death on survivor side since 1v3 at 5 gens is not a simple task for SoloQ randoms.
12 -
Killers were in a good spot yes.
Even high MMR 4-man SWF's were escaping less than 50% of the time.
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Killers need means to slowdown because they can't have all 4 survivors away from gens. Devs want to promote chase play but instead of buffing chase perks they nerf gen defense. Best logic ever.
We've had metas before PainRes-Pop where this wasn't an issue. Why is it an issue now? Even so, if you want to argue that the nerfing of PainRes-Pop is going to drop killer win-chances across the board, the only way that can be is if PainRes-Pop are objectively the most effective way to play. And with killers overperforming, that means the nerfs are perfectly justified, both on the subject of balance between factions and between killer perks.
Killers ''win'' so often because the situation with survivors dying on the first hook intentionally still hasn't been resolved. The kill rates for many pub-stomper killers remains high exactly because some people do die at 5 gens on purpose which then often results into 3 or 4 man death on survivor side since 1v3 at 5 gens is not a simple task for SoloQ randoms.
Except the kill rates are consistently high across the MMR levels. Even in high MMR, which you can't get to with quitter attitude, killers perform really, really well. And as Pulsar points out, 4-man high MMR SWF, which logically should not have -any- quitter activity, still won't hit 50% escape rate.
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So it's widely assumed that since High MMR games end with high kill rates then everything is fine, right? Apparently it's impossible for neither High MMR games nor 4 man SWF teams have a griefer, chill or inexperienced player.
0 -
I mean, what do you want? There's high kill rates -everywhere-, including in the one area that should realistically be the most stable, and you want to cry about killers being weak because of an unsubstantiated theory that's supported by NO stats whatsoever. I mean, we could just buff killers over and over because a handful of killer mains on the forums -feel- that the game's unfair, but we're gonna end up with 80%+ killrates and the forums flooded with topics about how unfair it is that survivors sometimes escape.
Unless you have proper grounds to discredit the statistics BHVR presented, the ONLY thing we have to go on IS indeed indicating that killers are overperforming across all ranks. You want to challenge that, come out with better.
15 -
You really do think that the statistics that stated that killers like Freddy and Sadako had 60%+ kill rates are legit and these killers are on good spot and probably need to be nerfed too, right? It's exactly the type of statistics that devs present, griefers, trolls and chill people who only inflate kill rates are not excluded from the final numbers.
That's is like saying killers are natively stronger than survivors because they can kill them. Well, yeah, what you do expect them to do?
4 -
So you want cherry picked data?
9 -
I'd rather they did them equally and at the same time.
I remember Mori's getting a nerf, (rightfully) but keys were a year later. Doesn't seem to be done evenly.
1 -
Okay but seriously unforeseen is kinda busted, especially on high mobility killers.
1 -
God...
That Myers pic destroys me. Too unusual...
Regarding the topic. These perks where seen every match and created really stale gameplay. IMO the nerfs are justified. This comes from a 70-30 killer-survivor player.
Even weaker killers are not as dependent on pop and pain res as some people make it out to be. Let's he real. How many of you religiously play Freddy every day and crutch hard on both of these perks?
He's the only I would consider to rely on some of them. Others work better with corrupt or something like that.
Maybe this finally opens the eyes of some people for other perks and a bit more variety.
I just played 7 rounds with:
- Bloodwarden
- Weave attunement
- Franklin's demise
- Alien instinct
Really fun build I can definitely recommend in lobbies with high item usage.
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So trail is as well?
0 -
Trail of Torment gives a notification (the highlighted Gen). It is IMO way weaker than Unforeseen.
3 -
It's only undetectable is it not? Is that really that threatening? Most killers are rather loud.
The only killer is see it being pretty good on is Bubba.
High mobility killers:
- Billy
- Nurse
- Blight
- Demo
- Oni
- Dredge
- Unknown
- Sadako
- Vecna
- Wraith
Most of them have sound clues when they are approaching or are straight up pretty loud like Billy and Dredge.
Even Chucky giggles when he is undetectable.
It's not bad but it's not amazing if you know what I mean. There's definitely better.
As I said before, Bubba seems to be the only really threatening one with the perk.
Am I missing something?
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You guys literally have a killer that is composed of 4+ different killers…. Your complaining and the DEVS hand feeding you the games is KILLING the game. Survivors are quitting.
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It's exactly the type of statistics that devs present, griefers, trolls and chill people who only inflate kill rates are not excluded from the final numbers.
But this is not a one-way thing. Killers that throw are also not excluded from the stats. And yeah, Freddy and Sadako will likely have had high kill rates because the only people playing them know them intricately and know how to make the most of them. One of the highest win-streaks was on a clown, for example. Another one on Twins, both killers that were written off by the forum community as being garbage tier.
Again, you're just presenting guesstimations from personal anecdata as a hard counter to what is statistically shown. That's not to say there's no outliers and statistical anomalies, but on the whole, killers are the stronger role at the moment. Yes, even against high MMR swiffers.
9 -
Nerfing the best gen regression perks while the gen speeds perks and items are untouched is just how BHVR babysit survivors. That's why most survivors don't get better at the game unlike killers, which create a false sense of killers being overpowered when in reality it's just survivors not wanting to get better at the game and instead ask for nerfs for killer side.
1 -
If a killer want an easy win, they just hard tunnel a survivor at the beginning, and the difficulty for survivor go way up that intended by the dev
Add with that these killer using 4 regression perk (pop, grim, deadlock, pain, ..)
and yeah, it's survivor who want easy win, indeed7 -
I just wanted to say that Unforeseen is way better than Trail of Torment. Being only undetectable for a bit but not giving any indication is better than being undetectable until the Gen stops regressing, but giving a notification to the Survivors that the Killer is Undetectable.
And I think it is good on some Killers, but it is just not a Slowdown-Perk which is good on every Killer. IMO it is a strong Perk, which is also good designed.
2 -
Agree.
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But you can combine trail with dragon's grip and call of brine
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honestly i think the perk is kinda BS but it not exactly op. It just extremely cheesy on some killers. Wall hack irl plague love running it for auto dubs in my experience. It just absurd that u can be undetectable whenever u want. I don't personally use much slow down but i thought pain res/pop was alright. Tunneling the real issue and it never get properly balance
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After some testing, my guess is Grim Embrace. It's currently the strongest killer perk.
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What else do you want the devs to go by? The average results from the tens of thousands of trials played daily around the world, or the one rough game xKiller95x had against a 4 man?
14 -
First resolve the issue with first hook griefers. Then provide the average chase data for every killer rather than kill rates. Maybe also provide the average gen repair times too. There's plenty of data out there that could bring the light at how games are generally played rather than how games do end.
4 -
PLEASE, enlighten me; what is there to get BETTER AT???
Looping? Learning how to sit through thanaphobia + Pentimento Legion and chug through an agonizing game? Learning how to simple say "better luck next game" After getting tunneled off hook at 5 gens? Perhaps learning how to be a better team player in solo q, where communication is non-existent?
Or perhaps, Watching your generator immediately regress because someone used Surge + Pain Res
Newsflash, there isn't much we as survivors (ESPECIALLY SOLO Q.) can do to get better at the game because in every opportunity we get, we have killers (like you for instance) screeching about how broken survivors are but REFUSE to open their eyes.
And if the picture STILL isn't clear enough for you, which I doubt it is; allow me to introduce to you a killer that is STILL disgusting to this day.
Skull Merchant.3 -
Literally everywhere on this forum, people were screaming, crying, throwing up about Adrenaline being a dead perk after the nerf and yet it's still top 3 in pick rates in nightlight lol.
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Funny how I made no mention of Nurse, Blight or Spirit. Nurse is a given, people who play her know what they're doing, much to our dismay and suffering.
And yes, I do think that killer players were in a good spot before these nerfs and spoiler alert, They still are. I'd like to remind you that not every survivor you face or interact with is a SWF waiting to hit you with a flash save because it's funny. ( I say this because Objectively, killers are STILL more likely to win with or without those certain perks, it was just the ' Go to ' for many killers. )
I believe the answer to your question is obvious but I'll spell it out for you; you continue to mix and match perks till you find the build for you, or put bluntly; deal with it. You're in the same boat as every survivor is and it doesn't particularly feel good to have a perk YOU thought was perfectly fine (And or ' necessary to slow the game down ') get nerfed because "It's too difficult to counter, It's too broken, Complaint, Complaint, Complaint."
Now that killers have been handed what they ruthlessly dished out, it's not exactly a fun pill to swallow…is it?
If you're looking for a genuine answer, that wasn't downright condescending? That would be to actually change perks and find fun in some other combination rather then running the previous meta build for killers to easily gain a 4K. (Just like every other survivor does.)2 -
I don't really blame them, but I understand both sides. Being able to use adren off hook, ESPECIALLY IN END GAME is an actual make it or break it.
Personally, if they were gonna do that, adren should've kept the 5 seconds of speed cause 3 genuinely isn't enough, trust me.1 -
Perhaps I indeed should seek fun in 4 - 5 minute games by trying non-gen defense build. Bad me asking for changes that may make game for survivors less fun. I deserve a whip on the back for that.
1 -
The difference is they change killer Perks every other update, and survivor perks get touched once in a blue moon. The only survivor Perk exception is DS. Buckle Up was terrible for years, then got a massive buff, and got left for a long time, until they recently changed it. Pop was left weak for years, then buffed, nerfed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed, over buffed, nerfed, slightly buffed, then nerfed again, and that's in a relatively short amount of time.
The easy summary is Survivor Strategies get to last a long time, whereas most, keyword most, killer strategies get nerfed within a handful of months of discovery.
Adrenaline had a long run and needed the nerf because it made no sense. It was not counterable. Don't get me wrong, I still use it because I love having a free heal, but now it's not a free heal off hook whenever, it requires survivors to time it with a hit, or unhook, since you still have agency over it with when the last generator pops. You see it all the time in IDV, the ping "Cipher primed" so when they get hit, they get the free health state and speed boost. The fact it could be banked meant it didn't require any thought. Not to mention if the Killer was carrying you, they could cheese the heal out by dropping you and immediately swinging, and that sucked on both ends.
And before you accuse me of being a killer main, I play both equally, and the only part of Survivor that's difficult is stupidity, but I enjoy it nonetheless.
2 -
insidious
0 -
I think they should nerf every slugging perk next, so Knock Out, Deerstalker, Third Seal, Im sure I'm missing a few more.
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Lethal Pursuer has got to be up there. Noed is also a safe bet. After that probably Franklin's Demise and Bamboozle.
Also, Pop and Pain Res will stay popular, so the complaints won't stop.
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To be honest, I'm surprised that Lethal Pursuer and Bamboozle haven't bee nerfed yet. Not because they need it, but because they are fairly strong perks, and those are the type of perks that are typically complained about
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Because in my experience of playing and watching Dead by Daylight content most survivors feels like they dont get better over time. From content creators winning 95% of their killer games because survivors dont play nowhere close as good as them and make rookie mistakes to when watching content creators playing survivors where they either dont play seriously or give up on hook most of the times. Recently I saw a content creator that played survivor when eating and just killed himself on hook effing their team over, treating the game as a joke. Stuff like this is way too common on survivor side, easily giving up. The truth is playing survivor is nowhere as stressful as killer and they dont really care about dying, feel like some people play survivor actually want to be killed, I dont know if its something to deal with their emotions but overall survivors dont take the game as seriously as the killer side this is why I think there's a skill gap between the 2 sides generally.
Also I rather face Skull Mommy than go against about half the roster of killers, if your teammates are on the same page with you, she is more than manageable but what can you do when survivors just give up so often when they see Skull Merchant.1 -
No because with that there's counterplay. You can see the aura of the gen and fix it to remove the undetectable and you know the general area of the killer so you have some level of counterplay. With Unforseen they just have undetectable and there's nothing you can really do about it except hope the killers not one of the many that have a broken combo with it.
0 -
Since when is undetectable broken?
Did I miss something?
1 -
Distortion probably.
0 -
Just a reminder unlike 6.1.0 this one was almost purely one sided, 6.1.0 nerfed ruin, pop, pain res, corrupt at the same time that DH, DS, Self care, were nerfed (DH wasn't even badly nerfed yet since it was the patch of 1s endurance DH with no requirement of being hooked).
This patch the slowdown nerfs are balanced out by….. 1s off ds stun time
1 -
We've had metas before PainRes-Pop where this wasn't an issue.
Such as? I'm fairly sure every meta since the original Hex Ruin has been gen regression, and killers complained about every nerf. The metas were:
- Hex Ruin
- Hex Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer
- Eruption + CoB + Overcharge
- Pain Res + DMS
- Pain Res + Pop
win-streaks was on a clown, for example. Another one on Twins, both killers that were written off by the forum community as being garbage tier.
The Clown winstreak was performed with Redhead's Pinkie Finger, which completely changes the killer to an instant down killer. The streak would have been far less without it.
Twins was not considered weak. Many tier lists placed her in A or B tier. People just didn't play her because she was unfun and clunky.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on0 -
Lmao. That's like saying Knight is 4 killers because he has 3 Guards and himself. Completely flawed logic.
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