Lethal Pursuer is unhealthy for the game in its current state

Options
Orionbash
Orionbash Member Posts: 742
edited June 7 in Feedback and Suggestions

I get that this perk was originally added during a period of DBD when gen rushing was at an all time high, killers werent overperforming, and loop adjustments were being made to balance some of the really crazy loops on certain maps. However, we are 3 years out from that period and the game is incredibly different now. Most loops have been rendered useless by overpowered anti-loop killer mechanics, gen speeds are slower than ever, healing is almost pointless unless another survivor has a med kit or it wastes too much time. Why has this perk not been reworked?

Mostly used on fast or ranged killers, it gives the killer knowledge of every survivors location at the start of a match unless they are running distortion. Distortion is a bad counter to this because killers have so many aura reading perks and add-ons now that no survivor should run distortion, ever, because it will eat up your stacks. Fast. On killers like Blight or Nurse, they are gonna get to their first survivor within seconds of the match starting. With most loops rendered useless, survivors dont even have time to start their first generator without someone being downed. Then youve got ranged killers like Huntress that can get their first down before survivors have even had a chance to look for a generator. Thats crazy.

Doesnt it also defeats the purpose of the game? The killer should be spawning in and have to find survivors on their own. Its literally part of the killer experience and just giving it to them is kinda…dumb. Id be OK with the perk as is in terms of aura reading if it came at some type of cost, but right now its just a free 100% aura read at the start of the match. With no downside. In fact, it even buffs other perks and aura-reading add ons! I think this perk deserves a second glance and its time for a rework of some type.

Post edited by Rizzo on
«13

Comments

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    If youve memorized survivor spawn locations that just makes you a good killer and I dont really have anything negative to say about that. Lol. However, while agree with your second point, gen slow down IS being looked at and fixed, but this perk still exists in its current state. It shouldnt.

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 617
    Options

    Seeing Lethal on killers like Billy has gotten rather old, especially since it's most likely that the 1st person chased is going to have a miserable time. Killers can deny it but current Lethal Meta +Nowhere to Hide is what has caused this Distortion Era

    Still, I'd rather see Lethal than Corrupt. It's annoying af when the only unblocked gens are the ones that will create a future 3 gen, which makes some killers on certain levels impossible to deal with so survivors are encouraged to afk and wait out the Corrupt

    I stoppedusing Corrupt precisely because my survivors were camping out the entire Corrupt duration before playing.

    I don't think it's a problem to have an early game focused perk, as perks come in all flavours and work at various points in the game. We can choose what works best for us

    At this point, I just recommend bringing OoO and tbag/point at killers who run Lethal. They will 100% chase you so your team will be safe and you can game with a few seconds of head start :)

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 617
    Options

    If you run any other aura reading then Lethal takes on the role of being a vibe check. Seeing 4 Distortions at the start at the trial at least warns youthat your intel may be faulty and adjust accordingly.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Theyre still slower than they ever have been. Find me any other time in DBD where gen speeds were slower. Lol. You cant. They were always faster.

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 617
    Options

    Ever since Vecna came out I've been consistently getting 2+ with maybe anOff The Record

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Huh. Maybe I havent played enough recently? But I know before Vecna came out I never saw it.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options
  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 617
    Options

    I'm just sharing my personal anecdotal experience. Maybe folks around me are feeling naked after coming back from Chaos Shuffle...or perhaps Weave Attunement is scaring people.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    I dunno, man. Id love to get rid of Off the Record and Decisive Strike in favour of other perks, but despite being the most powerful killers have ever been, theyre still resorting to tunneling which forces me to use those two perks. The meta changes constantly. You either adapt or dont.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Im referring to the actual gen speeds. Not additional perks. I should have specified. The base time it takes to complete a generator is longer than it ever has been, excluding slowdown perks. But this post isnt about that. I can work through gen slow down, but giving killers 100% aura reading right at the start of the match, without any downside, is kind of unfair.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Its not a random perk. Its literally #4 in usage rates. Lol

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    edited June 6
    Options

    I like how you say, "these people" yet you just made a post back in March suggesting changes to the perk WoO. If you arent the pope, dont preach.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Perhaps at lower MMRs. I dunno. I just never see it. But I think #10 is way different than #4, right? Also I like how you failed to mention that even though distortion is #10, the escape rate while using it has declined steadily in the past year. So while it may be #10, its clearly not providing any advantage. Lets not use stats unfairly.

    Source: https://nightlight.gg/perks/Distortion

  • Blizer
    Blizer Member Posts: 43
    Options

    So i watched JRM earlier today, and uhh yeah, Stakeout, Bardic, Hyperfocus and Fast Track equals like 40 Sec Gen Times, and that was without a toolbox. Granted, means you dont have any defensive or exhaust perks, but still, if Survivors want to go for Pure Gen Rush, that might be the build for it now

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Im not bad at looping, however, Im no Ayrun either. That being said though, I dont disagree with you that killer interaction is what makes the game fun. Even though I was my former competitive teams gen jockey and I have no issues sitting on gens and completing the objective, its still fun to loop when I get the opportunity. What isnt fun, however, is having that chase start too early and the killer getting a down before survivors have even had the opportunity to spread out and start on generators. And weve already discussed distortion and how it doesnt actually provide any benefit.

  • Blizer
    Blizer Member Posts: 43
    Options

    WIth Lethal, I Dont think it's super unhealthy, but with how popular it is, id say as survivor not running Distortion, you do need to take a good look of whats around you (Or use Windows) to get a quick exit strategy if the killer gets on you early.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
    Options

    Lethal is only problem with Blight or Nurse can start chase in 4 seconds, then the remaining 5 seconds used as wall hack to hit a survivor. Other than that, its fine.

    I think killers should have 3 seconds of killer instinct at the start of the game ase basekit to get the general spawning of survivor.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,115
    Options

    Nurse is no faster than 4.6 killers in average speed nowadays, you are objectively incorrect

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Wesker, Spirit, Vecna, Twins, Billy, Huntress, Legion, Artist (w/ crows, kinda)…

  • Blizer
    Blizer Member Posts: 43
    Options

    Nurse with Lethal Pursuer is whatever, LOS blockers exist

    Nurse with Nowhere to Hide? especially on a indoor map like the game? wooooof

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    I can guarantee that for myself, but not the rest of my solo Q teammates. Its just not a fair perk, man. Killers (rightfully so) didnt like survivors getting huge chunks off their first generator done with BNPs and so that was nerfed. Why should killers get part of their objective done at the start of the match? I think we can all agree that just giving players parts of their objective at the start of the match, with no downsides, is unhealthy for the game. Killers should have to find the survivors on their own at the start of the match. I dont think thats an unreasonable ask when killers are overperforming.

  • HolyDarky
    HolyDarky Member Posts: 406
    Options

    Low MMR is (from what I know) beginner MMR and I doubt the first thing new players do is to go to nightlightgg and track their matches. Rather average and experience players with a good amount of hours use nightlightgg or give the websitethe information. However, this does not change the fact that this is a more reliable source than "I don't see the perk so nobody uses this perk". From my experience I see this perk quite often.

    You said that nobody use Distortion and I gave you a source that proofs that players use Distortion. And currently this is a more trustworthy source. Nothing more. You should have been more precise beforehand that you also want to know the escape rate of the perk. Thus, I doubt it that Distortion is the reason why players with this perk have a low espace rate. If we take away the random stuff (bad match, someone gave up ect) it's because the team played bad or the killer played better.

    Just because Lethal pursuer has a high pickrate doesn't mean it's unhealthy but it's strong which is nobody denying. But a strong perk is not automatically unhealthy and the topic is about the point that LP is unhealthy.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Yes, you did. But you didnt really do much beyond that. I literally never see it in my matches though. Its pointless to discuss my anecdotal experience now because youve brought the actual statistics into the argument. My original argument wasnt about statistics though. Its just about the nature of the game. Killers should, at the start of the match, have to find the first survivor on their own unless LP offers some type of drawback. We have a survivor perk that gives us 15% off all of our objectives (Gens) at the cost of one survivor becoming broken. Killers are rewarded for using LP on the other hand.

    And if you wanna discuss statistics, fine. Can you really argue that its providing any actual benefit when the escape rate for survivors using it has declined repeatedly over the last year despite its usage increasing? Even if we factor all of the changes to killer and the game in general, its still not providing any benefit if its usage is increasing. This is opposed to Lethal Pursuer that has seen its usage only increase with its win rate remaining the same. So that means more killers are using it and the fact that the win rate remains constant should be a major red flag. Its too powerful. Its not healthy for the game. Its only perk-equivelant counter on the other hand is not providing any benefit as per your stats. Whats there to argue about that?

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,129
    Options

    Starting chases early is not fun for you but that isn’t true for others. Again, if a Killer gets a down before one or two gens are completed or it’s a skill issue on the Survivors part and not a problem with Lethal Pursuer. Survivors have plenty of opportunity to spread out and get on gens. Killer can only be chasing one person at a time and everyone is notified when someone is being chased. It’s not the perks fault if Survivors choose to take their time to even start working on gens or if the first Survivor is bad. That’s a problem with matchmaking.

    And yes, Distortion provides plenty of benefit, especially to people who can’t loop. It wouldn’t be so popular if it didn’t.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Im not getting into another distortion discussion. Its already been discussed in both my original post and further down the line in comments. So please refer to those as to why Distortion is a bad idea.

  • HexHuntressThighs
    HexHuntressThighs Member Posts: 866
    Options

    I don’t use aura to guarantee win games, I use them for fun. If I wanted to win I would use 4 slowdowns. It’s honestly ridiculous. If they gut aura reading every single Huntress will switch to 4 slowdowns because what other options does she have?

    116 killer perks in the game, 21 Basic Attack perks, 8 Undetectable perks, 6 Perks that rely on terror radius size, 15 Hex related perks. 48 perks that are bad to use on Huntress. That’s not including the 11 haste perks that make her 115% for like 10 seconds. Almost half the perks in this game are below average on her.

    Her top 5 most used builds are all full aura reading builds, and guess what’s after that? Gen slowdown. Pain Rez, Pop, Corrupt Intervention and NoEd in that order.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,022
    Options

    I stand my what i said, if you refuse to run perks because you dont want to "waste a perk slot on it"

    - then you choose to run the risk that the killer sees you with aura reading perks.. eod.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Ive never really liked the, "Just because its not fun for you doesnt mean…" kinda arguments. Well, it just so happens that seeing my teammates getting downed a few seconds into the match isnt fun for me. Everyones fun is subjective. I dont get your point here and why that first part is even relevant to the discussion.

    I never said that survivors have to pop one or two gens before the first down. I said that its unfair when the killer has the first down before survivors have had an opportunity to start gens which is an issue that Lethal Pursuer creates when used on high mobility killers.

    I would love to agree with you on distortion but since everyone wants to discuss stats, Ill just refer you to the same stats everyone else wants to talk about.

    https://nightlight.gg/perks/Distortion

    Distortion isnt providing any benefit when its win rates are steadily declining.


  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Its moreso that my other perk slots are dedicated to perks that I have no choice but to run because despite killers overperforming, they still like to tunnel. Distortion isnt going to help much with that.

  • Orionbash
    Orionbash Member Posts: 742
    Options

    Do you see me arguing against gen slowdown? All Ive said in regards to that is an observation that gen rates are the slowest they ever have been (And I meant at base, not with perks). I dont care about gen slow down. Its been in the game since Ive started and Ive learned to adapt. Aura reading is fine in other circumstances, but it shouldnt be provided to the killer at the start of the match without any consequences.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,022
    Options

    We all struggle with tunneling, can i ask what perks you run?

    Distortion is so much value for me, if the killer cant find me they cant tunnel me.

    But stealth can me many things, this is not my main build, i rarely use any of the perks here except for distortion. I needed to cleanse 8 totems, that was lucky for me, what you cant see is that the killer had NOED and actually hits me once i get the door open. - but this killer tunneled everyone out, distortion saved me.

  • A_Gamers_Dead_Body
    A_Gamers_Dead_Body Member Posts: 99
    Options

    Killers literally have to waste 1 perk slot on the perk that deactivates for the rest of the game after the first 10 seconds of the game…

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521
    Options

    Seems weird to complain about this now when it's been like this for 2 years already. As far as Lethal goes I'd actually argue it's a healthy perk, it fixes games where survivor just spawn on top of gens and killers can't really do anything about it. The actual problem is with killers like Nurse, Blight, Billy that can act on the info so quickly that you're basically in chase 5 seconds into the game. So the perk itself is hypothetically fine on most killers it's just a problem on stronger killers but you can't ban perks on certain killers. It's a problem we've had for years tbh but for some reason BHVR refuses to balance Nurse.