How to address slugging
- Give the killer camping a downed body the same treatment you give to hooked survivors (outside of the endgame collapse). If the killer is nearby long enough, they will eventually just able to stand back up on their own.
- Make it so the bleed out timer either resets over time, or instantly goes to 50% or higher upon being able to stand back up.
Comments
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Why should the killer be penalized for the blunder of the survivor player?
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If a killer wants to slug someone from the very beginning of the game there is very very little counter play when it comes to getting that person back up. I don't see how that is fun and fair game play. You can't leave open the opportunity for people to take advantage of exploitative game play.
I am not even talking about situations where the entire team gets slugged and loses, that is absolutely their fault for that happening, but even the fix I proposed wouldn't impact that outcome.
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Survivors will finally be able to fight without needing perks.
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Neither of these solutions will help with slugging
option 1 sounds good on paper but its not, If the killer cannot find a survivor because they lose sight of them, theyll just leave the area to prevent the survivor from getting picked up from close proximity, encouraging slugging. Also what if another survivor is pressuring a save simultaneously? If they stalled long enough in close proximity would the downed survivor eventually get up?
Option 2 is worse, that actively punishes the survivor's, If a killer is slugging, its safe to assume they don't have good intentions so they could alternatively take use in this by indefinitely slugging since they will never die from it. All survivor's being slugged would be interesting Aswell
MAKE UNBREAKABLE BASEKIT IS OUR WAY TO FREEDOM! PREACH1 -
But killer won't be able to fight back, if survivors have perks....
Nothing like this can be implemented as long there are strategies/situations when only option killer has is slugging.
Which doesn't really work when Sabo was just buffed.
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Hot take: a complete finisher mori when everyone is in the dying state would be healthier for both sides.
If everyone is slugged and nobody has any active perk that can make them pickup themselves (Unbrekable, Soul Guard, Exponential, etc) the match should end with the mori finisher and everyone should be free to go to the next match.
I rather have a quick match than being rolled in a slug snowball where everyone gets picked up and downed until the bleedout.
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If the killer only ever has the option to slug then that situation should also be mended. Both slugging and the need to slug should be addressed equally. It seems however that DBD is only interested in taking away the survivors ability to force the killer to slug.
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The system they came up with was met with so much push back (from both sides) it ended up being scraped. They are likely still thinking about ways to deal with slugging, but for now we just have to wait.
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There needs to be something to deal with this yes, but I don't think basekit Unbreakable is it. It's way too abusable.
The issue is, BHVR needs to come up with something fair, something that doesn't allow for a SWF to just abuse it with perks like Plot Twist or something, and that doesn't penalize the Killer for an honest mistake or a good play using a down for pressure properly (that is, not slugging toxically). The proposed solution before didn't do that, and people hated it as a result.
If it is going in the game, then like the AFC and the anti-3gen, it needs to ONLY mostly punish people who do it on purpose. Not anyone else. That's a delicate balance to try and strike especially when some Killers do down pressure really well.
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I think if you do something as simple as, allowing survivors to bleed themselves out. It would significantly reduce slugging for the 4k. And if you add the camping a body unbreakable, then the chances of them forcing a slug game also significantly goes down. You don't need to kill ALL slugging to address slugging, you can just reduce the chances of it happening without entirely killing the play style.
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There is like dozens of survivor perks that counters slugging very well, I don't understand how can you believe there is "very little" counterplay
On top of it, just playing well does counter it due to it's volatile nature, it's not like killers can do good slowdown while slug, only when they down survivors consistently
And this change doesn't work because killers can't know where downed survivors are, it works for hooks because the location is obvious, not for slugged survivors because they can very well hide within range
Also not to mention Bleeding out being longer is extremely ridiculous, it can literally hold the killer hostage and there won't be any counter at all to it
Slugging for 4k is not toxic or even problematic, trying to reduce it already shows you are killing the playstyle
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What about boil over and hook deadzones?
I don't believe it's possible to account for every way in which survivors could make a comeback from such a situation, and I have been in games just like this in which said comeback has happened.
I had a game against a spirit who slugged everyone, then hooked me and camped, hitting me on hook to gloat. She then eventually went off to hook another survivor, at which point I unhooked myself through AFC, picked up another survivor, and the game ended up with 3 escapes in the end.
I think the Finisher Mori can only work with one survivor remaining. That's the only time you can safely rule out any further survivor plays. Anything else is a substantive survivor nerf.
The best options in my mind would be:
- The option to 'sprint' while in the dying state, 2x speed but you bleedout 2x quicker. You can then choose to leave the game earlier if that's your goal.
- When all survivors are in the dying state or hooked (or already dead), they gain the ability to recover from the dying state. They would still need to fully recover first, and the moment one of them gets up the ability goes away. But this would mean you can still slug for pressure, but you can't keep everyone down at once indefinitely. This would mitigate slugging for the 4K.
- Finisher Mori on just the last survivor remaining. This prevents slugging the last survivor to grief.
These aren't mutually exclusive either, I think all of these could be implemented and it would have an almost entirely positive effect.
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Because the downed body can move itself.
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Slugging for 4k is not toxic or even problematic.
It might not always be malicious (toxic) but it is definitely problematic.
In this situation the only option the final survivor has is to hide for four minutes, and they're entirely justified in doing so.
The killer could simply hook the 3rd survivor and play the 4th for hatch, which is usually in the killers favour anyway, but killers want the certainty of a 4K rather than actually playing for it. This is problematic because a 3K shouldn't guarantee a 4K, they are different scores, and the hatch exists for a reason. Artificially inflating every 3K to a 4K inflates kill rates, which ultimately harms killers for overperforming, resulting in inflated MMR and killer nerfs.
But disregarding that, it simply becomes an unnecessary stalemate. It might 'only' last four minutes, but that's an obnoxious amount of time to stall the game out for either side.
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Alternatively:
Get picked up by another survivor!
You dont need to punish the killer just because survivors are unwilling to help each other.
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If i see a survivor (or many survivors) is in a a zone where hooking is impossible, i leave them on the ground for the bleedout or unbrekable. Its boring but i don't think i should be punished because the hook spawns are bad or play from the other team did not went as they planned. When i'm playing survivor and i'm the last one i just move closer to a hook or don't wiggle so we can all get to the next match quicker.
In the situation where you described its more a Spirit fault than a reasonable way to the survivor to came back. Killers are getting smarter about the Anti-facecamp feature and walking way after hooking. I believe this is a very specific situation.Of all you've said, maybe the first option - to increase the bleedout speed - would be the better one then, as there wouldn't be situation where survivors just use a guaranteed pick up to diminish the killer pressure.
Although i understand your point, i still think that a finisher mori when everyone is downed and there is not a reasonable way to pick themselves up would be the best way to end a match, instead on relying in RNG - waiting for a kobe or bad hook spawn - or for a killer mistake.
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Bubba is camping the body, now what?
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I think, slugging is something you prevent best by countering it with certain perks like buckle up. It can backfire for the killer as well. To make it less valuable, the recovery speed could be a bit faster.
BUT at the same time it should be more beneficial for the killer to pick up!!! How to achieve this?
- nerv survivor saves (power struggle only once, background player was nerved, right?)
- new killer perk: picking up survivors is increased
- survivors bleeding out time is increased
If you get slugged, crawl away from the hook. I usually get picked up then.
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Ill create a scenario, the game started, a bubba found and downed you in 30 seconds. He is now standing over your corpse, go.
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Fire up is faster picking up but pretty much no one run it
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Slugging is 90% the result of a survivor playing bad.
If there's several people who are running around and making their presence extremely obvious then you are going to get slugged till it's safe to picked up.
If you ran to a side of the map with no hooks, you are going to get slugged.
Slugging is a punishment for being in a bad position or getting into a bad position. Also, it's no different than being on the hook since either situation you can't play the game. Except with hooks your closer to dying, which there's no real incentive to slug you over just hooking you.
There has to be consequences for you playing bad. To say otherwise is to assume you played PERFECTLY and made 0 mistakes.
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You guys keep saying that slugging is a result of bad survivor play, and I don't disagree. But what about the situations where a killer just wants to slug one person and bleed them out? Why is it okay to leave that in the game? Many killers can indefinitely keep that person on the ground and there is nothing you can physically do.
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The bleed out timer is 4 minutes though so "indefinite" wouldn't be the word to describe slugging.
Unless you feel like the bleed out timer should be shorter but I believe it's 4 minutes for a good reason.
As for "nothing you can physically do", Soul Guard + Unbreakable/other perks that allow you to recover from the dying state would give you the ability to make it to another tile. Throw in a well timed Sprint Burst to give yourself more time.
The perks to counter such a situation of being slugged and camped by the Killer exist. However because such a situation does not occur frequently, it doesn't justify constant bringing of the perks to counter this scenario once in 20+ games. I think what you are trying to convey is that you don't want to bring anti slug perks because you won't get value from it for the majority of the games, but you want some form of basekit implementation when slugging does happen so you can continue running whatever perks you like currently.
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In your scenario where the Killer downs someone and camps the downed Survivor till they bleed out, they are not pressuring the other 3 Survivors, which leaves them to either complete the gens and leave or try to save the downed Survivor. Unless the remaining 3 Survivors somehow throw the game trying to be super altruistic, there's a good chance of it being a 2/3 man escape. From a 1v4 perspective, this slug camping strategy will yield either 2 or 3 escapes if the Survivors realize what's going on and crank gens. I'm not sure if the devs would call that unbalanced from a 1v4 perspective.
So it comes down to the personal enjoyment of the one player being slugged that I assume you're having an issue with. I'm all for a player playing in this specific way to be reported and banned if required. Implementing basekit bandaids for such scenarios will just lead to potential for abuse which was what happened during the Unbreakable PTB.
I'm also not sure what you mean by "good gameplay". In fact such a play by the Killer is bad gameplay on their end from a 1v4 perspective.Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Lol, I never heard of this one. Maybe just buff fire up then. No totems, just a speed increase of 15 % or so for picking up a surv.
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