Now that we all had a good laugh, can we revert the sabo buff ?
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So, you're angry enough to be super condescending if killers are in any way inconvenienced, even if that requires having multiple survivors in one chase and off gens...
But survivors need to be forced to be afk so you can win more. Yeah, that sounds like the reasonable stance.
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Killers are already eating better than they ever have been before, kill rates are about 60% across the board in every MMR. That's higher than ever.
Literally every single thing that's been "frustrating" for killers in the past two years had been nerfed into the ground.
Doubling or tripling the gen times would kill this game. And people would still just run quad slowdown and be really frustrated by survivors who can loop better than they can... Because all this would do is further inflate MMR for killers. The same thing happened during the gen kick and 3 gen metas, where killers had literally infinite time to play out the match.
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Can you not turn this into the same old us vs them thing? Both sides want a fun experience and some variety... Nobody wants to generators for 500 h straight, there needs to be variety in the gameplay.
Circle of healing is still decent, people used it that much because it was super busted, as killer you could never play hit and run because the reset time was so low, you didn't create pressure with hooking because the survivor could self heal so fast... Circle of healing could have a small buff and be fine, the other boons need a bit more to see usage, but given their effects makes it hard to not overbuffed them...
What could for example work would a secondary objective that lights up gens... Let's say each map has 3 or 4 switches that are always at the same spots and when you turn them on gems get highlighted for all survivors, either by aura reading or that huge light we have on maps.
Then there could be some special chests that allow you to get a one time use item that for example progresses a gen by x percent or reduces the total amount of charges needed for that Gen by 10% it would be not as busted as BNP because you have to spend time getting it and what not.
I think there are many things that could be done that a lot of people would agree on, but it sadly seems like the extremes on both sides just want the other side to be miserable, but alas C'est la vie...
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How would you know that it is higher than ever? It is not like we get to see the data that often...
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And of those times they share it, it's consistently gone up. It was about 50% right at 6.1.0 two years ago, it was about 55% a year later, and currently it's about 60%.
We don't get data that often, but the data they give is has a very clear trend.
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Given that 60% is their goal...
The issue is you don't know what happens in between those sets of data, the stats could be all over the place, you are just assuming that it has to be this way... You are basically just guessing.
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I'm not turning into us vs them. Literally the only things that fit the criteria people ask for are more gens, or survivors forced to be afk.
You're focusing on balance of old items, that isn't my point.
Give me an option that isn't standing afk, or mandatory objective that would actually not make either side miserable.
I'm open to suggestions, but so far all anyone is throwing out is reinforcing my point that the only side objectives the devs have tried are completely rejected, and literally no one is giving a viable option that isn't essentially just adding gens or making base kit corrupt.
So please, offer suggestions.
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I just gave you 2 things? Turning on switches to get locations of gens, not mandatory but can be helpful.
Special chest that offer items that can be useful but not the items that you can bring into the game, could even be map specific. For example for the Game or Hawkins it could be a key card to open doors. It could be anything depending on what the goal is.
Those things could also offer different mini games... For the opening doors action you could for example make it a connect cable game like in Among US and if the killer does not want to deal with it he can m1 the thing break it. Not saying every door should have that, but maybe some of them.
Then there could be for example parts of a map you can pick up that give aura reading on certain things in that specific quarter of the map.
There are really many things that could be possible. We could also introduce more of an incentive to do dull totems because currently the only reason to break them is noed... How about we introduce a rather hard minigame, if you pass it the totem gets destroyed x seconds earlier, doing the minigame is not mandatory in that case it takes the normal time. The time reduction should be really small like 1 or 2 sec max. If the minigame is fun people will do bones just to play the minigame. Other than that maybe give people a buff for breaking dulls and laying the bones to rest, something rather small, 1-2 % increase on certain actions, nothing big but a little something.
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I have about 3 data points. Making any claims about anything in between, either way, is literally guessing.
But throwing out those data points because you don't like or agree with the direction they indicate is just disingenuous. You're heavily implying the actual data is inaccurate because we don't have more info in between. You have nothing but speculation to say that.
Even nightlight disagrees with you there, and that's a not a complete picture, and has several caveats.
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Or you could have the white mirror thing basekit, sort of a hard mode objective for extra BP, where you need to finish the mirror and bring it out to get the bonus BP. You could even phrase it as rescue the souls of the sacrificed survivor to give them another chance at trying to make it out or something.
Like I said before, we basically have an unlimited amount of options... Give me half a day and I can come up with 20 ideas, they might not be balanced but something to work with. They might make perks obsolete and what not, but that is not the point right now.
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We already have chests, which is probably the best example of a 'failed' secondary objective. There's minimal incentive to do them, they take away from valuable gen time, and people generally agree that it's a waste of time for survivors.
So if you're making those things optional then likely no one will do them, for a similar reason.
If you're making them mandatory then how is that not potentially frustrating to survivors?
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The difference is people can bring items from normal chests in and apply addons to them... That is not possible with the things I described. The incentive would not only be to have the item in the chest but also the associated minigame. If the special item you can get from the chest has a valuable effect people will do them.
The reason chests fail as a side objective is that getting a toolbox out of it is not worth the time investment you put in to open the chest, getting a key only helps the last survivor with the hatch or does nothing and getting a medkit only heals you once, and still takes way longer than just to group up and get healed... And maps don't give you much either.
They failed because they are not worth the time to do them, which is why I want the special chests to have stuff that cannot be gained otherwise, have them have a worthwhile effect that gives them something for their time spend without being busted and it also gives them a fun little minigame that is not skill-checks... The minigame could even be optional...
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I started of by saying their goal is 60% killrate... Which leads to the assumption that they wanted to increase the killrate from 55% onwards and so on. The only thing I said is that we don't know what happened in between,which obviously true and that means you cannot know for sure whether or not the killrate currently is higher than ever... If you wanted to say that you would need to add "as far as the available data suggests"... That is a big difference and all I wanted to point out.
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Then I have to ask why you think an extra objective is necessary. The primary reason most people give is that "games need to be slowed down for survivors". Which is why the objective in general needs to be mandatory, or enticing enough for survivors to do it optionally.
If you make the objective optional, then you have the chest problem. It might give newer survivors something to try out, and it will slow down those games, but they're already easy. But as survivors learn that the only way to escape is to complete gens, they will do gens and nothing else. At "high MMR" survivors will just ignore any optional objective and bang out gens and escape as fast as possible.
That's why I'm critical of these kinds of things, is that in order to actually slow down the game, the objective needs to be mandatory instead. Which is basically synonymous to adding extra gens, or just adding extra steps to gens (which is functionally the same thing). You can call it whatever you want, but the end result is identical to adding extra gens here.
So if the objective is optional, it does nothing to slow the game down, and is literally just adding content bloat for the sake of doing it. With the options you've listed, you seem to have a goal other than slowing down the game for survivors, so why do you think it's necessary for the devs to put effort into this?
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Well first of all doing generators is really boring so I would like there to be different objectives that have a value for not only me but also the team, which is why I think fun little mini games are a good idea. This also gives the incentive to do something else than gens as it might help you in the long run, it won't make the game quicker but maybe safer I guess? The aura reading on gens might help you preventing a 3 Gen in a dry area for example.
I don't think slowing down should be the goal necessarily... The primary issue is people tend to define Gen Rush as just doing gens where survivors can argue what else am I supposed to do? There are no meaningful side objectives, unless killer specific. Which is why I want to add meaningful side objectives. If those help the survivors to some degree that is great, because the killer probably won't patrol them, ideally he should not see where they are.
The point is that those side objectives might be of benefit for your goal of finishing the gens, not necessarily directly but indirect... Preventing a 3 Gen for example or making it easier to break, something along those lines, an additional layer of gameplay to support the players in reaching their goal.
I don't think making them mandatory helps, because that would just mean add more stuff similar to gens, and then you might as well add more gens and give them a different minigame…the only difference would be that the killer most likely will not patrol side objectives.
It is necessary to give the gameplay variety... Doing gens is boring and other objectives would be a great addition to the gameplay loop, especially if they can impact the flow or the outcome of the game.
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Ignore everything that person says, if killers we're nerfed so bad that it would be impossible for killers to even get a 1k, they would still defend survivor side and say everything is ok 😂.
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It is necessary to give the gameplay variety...
I completely agree.
My fear, is that optional objectives will end up turning out like some of the custom game modes the devs have implemented in the past. Take the winter event as an example: survivors were throwing snowballs just for the fun of it, but that ended up with killers sweating it out to get much easier games. Once the survivors realized that the "fun" side objective was just losing them the game, the mode reverted back to "do gens or die" and the side objective stopped being relevant.
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Fair, but I think that fully depends on the player, some don't play to win.
However to counteract that I don't want the side objectives to be entirely useless, but to have a certain value.
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The problem with any side objective is that you can lead Survivors to the objective but can't make them do it.
At this point the only thing that will help is removing or reworking unfun changes that promote frustrating the other side but don't do anything for most people because it's a waste of time (like the sabo buff), doing a pass on generator progression to put it all in line with each other (I don't see why it's okay that Resi gives 9% for being hit while MFT gave 3% in chase for the same activation condition; perks that activate on injury like that simply aren't a good idea), and/or adding some sort of secondary objective TO gens that is mandatory. The other option? Buff older Killers that need it (and before anyone trots out the tired argument of "but Nurse tho lol buff her great idea", I would say rework Nurse's power ENTIRELY, she 's due one as her power is STILL too oppressive and will always be in this state).
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You guys are having sabo squads?
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Well in masquerade mode, no, wi-fi hooking is the best thing ever implemented in this game
In normal mode however, yes, i do
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