Stop defending broken perks.
I don't get it.
Pop and pain res were the best 2 perks in the game on killer when they were nerfed. Let them stay a little weaker or if you are feeling spicy nerf them again
All the best killer perks are related to slowing gens down directly or indirectly. So let them be nerfed.
Distortion is being talked about because Otzdarva stated the obvious (being able to avoid the killer and let your team soak pressure is unhealthy) and it also broken and overshadows perks like shadow step that do a similar job but worse. players are defending it it should be nerfed.
WOO is the most used perk on Survivor according to Nighlight and it gives you perfect valuable info on everything that is up or down near you in Chase stop saying it is a perk to learn the game and not op it should be nerfed.
Every strong build has an exhaustion perk if it does not it's not as strong as it could be but we won't talk about how that hold back perk variety on survivor. They should be nerfed.
The only thing I think is acceptable to be out of line when it comes to strength are harder killers being stronger than the easier killers and vice versa the degree can be argued but its good that blight is better than ghostface or that hillbilly is better than knight if it was the other way around this game would not last as long.
The point is some things in this game are disproportionality strong. Stop saying stuff like,
Well actually [insert perk here] is actually pretty weak because [insert reason here] and that's why I use it every game. bruh stop.
edit small grammer mistake
Comments
-
Woo, Distortion and Exhaustion that's almost a Bingo!
15 -
Whats broken for you is not broken for me and whats broken for me is not broken for senior bacon which one turn may not be broken for whomever is next on the list
12 -
Wait, what bingo card are you using? Are we cheating if we got bingo already?
4 -
Yes, they are the obviously 3 broken perks or types of perks Surviver have. The title of this thread was originally going to be "Stop defending obviously broken things." its why I mentioned harder killers being strong and easier killers being weak halfway into the post despite it being about perk but I decided to change it.
They are the "bingo card" because they are so clear of everything else in the survivor arsenal but broken stuff is fine by you because you use them.
You are the types of players the bottom of this post is aimed at.
What's strong is strong you can try and say dark theory is op and that is your right. You would be wrong.
You are not a reality warper whats broken is broken and whats weak is weak.
0 -
Doesn't that apply to you? Are you a reality warper? If so please warp reality so people stop complaining about every little thing.
On a more serious note, who decides what's broken? I don't think pop is broken before or after nerfs. Don't think pain res or grim embrace is either. Windows? Nope. Distortion? Same answer. Do you think they're broken? That's fine but you can't force anyone else to think that.
5 -
What's strong is strong
Have you checked winrates, buddy? Because objectively, the stuff you're pointing out? Not broken.
3 -
How about we just nerf the top 10 most picked perks for each side??
4 -
Well part of the thing is just because a perk is used a ton doesn't mean it is OP 100% of the time.
Don't get me wrong, OP perks are abused a ton, like old MFT. But it's not always the case.
WoO for example isn't the problem, the maps are. Sure you could nerf it and you would effect the people who crutch on it. But the actual problem of the map generating 15-20+ pallets that can be chained while being right next to each other leaving no chance for sub top 5 killers to do much will remain. So players who don't need WoO will still be abusing that. If the maps weren't ridiculous WoO wouldn't do much. So the best nerf would be a nerf to maps overall as many (but not all) are just too much.
Pop and Pain res were being used a lot but that's also because they nerfed everything else that was being used before then. If they were fine before and everything else comparable got made weaker they don't suddenly become a problem and too strong just because. Regression is usually needed in some form as otherwise the gens go too fast for most of the killer cast, so unless every single regression perk is basically worthless the best 2-4 will always be massively prevalent. Even if those perks are at an acceptable power level.
It's similar for exhaustion perks. Either all of them are made basically worthless or they will be everywhere. Although that's more because the effect they have will always be useful and not because survivors need them to reasonably have a chance.
Distortion is a case of a perk doing too much imo. Mainly because you basically have it permanently and it can counter up to 4 of the killers aura perks by itself with no effort. Which aren't even really problem perks to begin with outside of the hyper mobile top 4 killers.
0 -
Ohh itd be like chaos mode again, yes please
1 -
I think almost every perk there needs a Nerf maybe except bamboozle, deja vu, BBQ, and Dead hard
Although in principle I don't think progression perks are good for the game, bamboozle's use rate I think is tied to killers and Dead hard idk what other strings could be attached to that perk. BBQ I think is naturally getting weaker and will continue to do so as map sizes shrink if the current trend continues the 40m requirement has stayed the same so idk how id change it it has a simple condition and drawback.
Almost every over perk there is used because they are the best perks and I don't like how for years many have gone untouched.
1 by 1
suv perks first
- OTR does not need to hide you aura for 80 seconds
- DS never needed 4 seconds it was still better than 90% of the games perks at 3
- Distortion i have a similar opinion to most of the recent posts gut it.
- Sprint burst has been the best exhaustion perk in the game for years now and it need to not only be brought in line with other perk but even just other exhaustion perks
- Adrenaline is a top tier perk after all its buff if it was just a free healthstate at the endgame it would still be good so it needs more done imo
- Resilience is one of the best suv perks in the game but most people don't see the value of 9% faster vaults.
- Lithe exhaustion perk that needs to be brought in line with regular perks.
- Windows is very powerful and give the best info in the game that you could have. It make bad players mid, mid players good, and good players better
Killer perks
- Deadlock-Gen block
- Grim embrace-Gen block
- Surge-Regression is very good in 3-gen scenarios
- Nowhere to hide-Best Aura reading perk in the game and although i don't have a major issue with most aura perks i understand why we should bring them in line with each other
- Corrupt intervention-Slowdown
- Lethal pursuer- Was good enough without extending auras of other perks and now BHVR needs to concern themselves with with what other perks may do it lethal if they release a perk that shows a long aura reading time
- Pop- Still cracked and not just out of line with killer perks in general but also other regression perks like eruption (kinda like how i see sprint burst)
- Pain res- Exact same as pop
Edit-to finish typeing this i started cutting down on words in the killer perks section
edit 2 wrote 30 for otr aura instead of 80
0 -
So now we got a question: Are any of these perks "broken" or do you just not like them?
5 -
The average suv perk when I think of truly mid off the top of my head is something like inner strength, dark theory, empathy
The 3 top and bottom suv perks in that list (to show the best and worst without my inherent bias) is Windows, lithe, resilence or Otr, DS, distortion
The average killer perk when I think of truly mid is off the top of my head something like Bitter murmur, Spies from the shadows or Deathbound
The 3 top and bottom perks in this list (to show the best and worst by playrate without my inherent bias) are Deadlock, Grim embrace, surge or Pop, pain res and lethal
They are broken
0 -
I agree with you that a lot of perks actually do way too much and impact the match way more than a 'perk' should, however we are way past the point of fixing that since it would mean that over 200 perks would need to be rebalanced due to having overtuned effects. For example, in an ideal world I think that gen regression perks could use an overhaul and be overall nerfed, but that is IF AND ONLY IF survivor chase perks and defensive perks (lets be real survivors use defensive perks for offense always anyway) such as Lithe, Sprint Burst, resillience, OTR, DS were nerfed aswell. T
The issue with this game is that the concept of 'perks' as a personal choice to help you win matches in different ways has been completely overriden with broken meta perks that are just SO much better, and BHVR consistently kept on adding more and more to combat the previous batch of broken perks up until I think the release of MFT where they started releasing mid perks that will never see the light of day. Sadly, the game will always be balanced around both sides using broken perks because it is too much effort for BHVR to address and fix the underlying issues of the gameplay loop which will in turn allow for perks to not be as drastic as they are currently.
2 -
100% but generally the point of the thread is i wish people would stop defending broken perks.
I feel like dbd players are addicted to powercreep.
0 -
You haven't actually demonstrated why any of these things are broken?
Something being the strongest option doesn't inherently mean it's too strong. There are also smarter ways to solve perk variety issues than just nerfing the top stuff and nothing else, some of the time.
13 -
Survivor perks have to be cheeks if WoO can be considered powercreep.
Power creep is what release CoH, Made for This and old new Boil Over. Insinuating that WoO is even in the same league as these perks, if anything proves to me how tame the survivor meta must be if that perk is what's being complained about.
9 -
If you don't nerf what's strong you cannot have perk variety without causing major issue
- You either have to buff things to their level which creates but more and more of the game is determined by what you play and have access to rather than how you play as seen in games like Overwatch where in Overwatch 2 their is greater empherisis on swapping character to counter what the other team is using than in overwatch 1
- You nerf the perks at the top level and see what happens (this means creating a real meta shakeup not just a 5% off pain res)
- or you fundamentally change the game in a major way (reworking all maps and format changes, mabye you play 7 gens 5 survivers idk something major that makes a specific type of perk more valuable) and the meta changes maybe you get more variety maybe you get less
That is all that can be done.
I just want major nerfs to what needs it there is no excuse for Sprint burst being one of the best perks in the game since launch or pain res since it came out.
1 -
I see.
So, my understanding is that you're not arguing for the perks themselves actually being broken, but rather than them being stronger is a problem for perk variety?
In that case, I can sort of get behind it, but there are a few things being missed here. One of the bigger and more unavoidable ones is that there are already plenty of good perks people just refuse to run, so clearly to some degree people will flock to certain options even if they aren't actually much stronger - you can very clearly see that in Windows being the most run perk in the game despite being pretty mid - but there's also the fact that you do have other options than just flat nerfing.
For instance, when you talk about Exhaustion perks being over-represented, I think there are other options. I think BHVR had a really good thing going when they gave Iron Will and original Made For This the "can't be Exhausted" stipulation despite those perks not being Exhaustion perks. More strong perks with that stipulation - some new, some old and just given this quality - would make Exhaustion perks less desirable without actually making them weaker.
You'd be pushed into choosing whether or not to get the speed boost of an Exhaustion perk, or something more versatile from another perk, because those two tools don't work well together. Restrictions can be just as effective as nerfs, with the added benefit of each individual perk still being as good as before.
3 -
I know this is a hill you are willing to die on so beyond this post I'm not going to argue that Windows is strong but you would not be so invested in the point that Windows is strong if you really believed it was weak.
- you are coping over the fact I'm calling a perk you want to believe is not strong is strong
- or (in your view) you are doing to equivalent of trying to tell someone saying empathy is op that its not on repeat
I doubt it's the second to be completely honest.
0 -
I agree with what you are saying about iron will but currently the amount of perks arguably better than sprint burst and Lithe are in the single digits and at that point if you want to keep them at their current strength you would need a system like a point based system (which I don't want to see)
0 -
Part of the reason Sprint Burst and Lithe are so good is because they're unrestricted, though. You only have to not run them both at once, the only perk in the game that I can think of that you can't run with them is Iron Will. If there were more perks that forced you to pick, as long as all the perks involved are individually good, you'd see more variety.
If you think those two perks are too strong regardless of any other context, you do need to back that up with some kind of explanation. If it's just about perk variety, though, then restricting loadouts with soft mechanics like Exhaustion is just as valuable as nerfing things.
1 -
We're going to state right off the bat that your standards for mid and ours are very different but we're going to put that aside and give an explanation on how we see each of those 12 (6 survivor and 6 killer perks) as not "broken" (and we would now like a definition of "broken" please. For us it's: Something that's extremely overwhelming for normally competent (not new, not competitive) players, extreme effects that are also uncountable, or something that literally breaks the game). If you want to see them they're below 👇. If you want the short sloppy summary, they each have some form of condition, counter, or drawback for their effects.
Survivor
Windows: it gives information on pallets and windows. That's it. It can be countered by blindness and doesn't save people in bad hands. Surprise a survivor, corral them, or burn everything Abit at a time to make the info pointless. Its decent, good, not "broken"
Lithe: Sprint burst after vaulting. It's a once per chase (unless the killer majorly screwed up) thing and does not work while exhausted (which there are various ways to cause) and if they don't have anything to vault and works poorly when vaulting from a high place. As before, good not "broken"
Resilience: Ok bonuses to various attributes while injured. Risk and reward, your now easier to catch if you want to keep using the bonuses. Fair to us and not "broken".
Otr: 80 seconds of conditional endurance and stealth effect. Conditional being the focus as it turns off if they progress the game or (more than likely to happen) get hit. Ohh and it costs a hook state and turns off at endgame. Not "broken" to us.
DS: Conditional get out of grasp free card. As above, they can't progress the game, costs a hook state, and off at endgame. Annoying when people try to weaponize it but not "broken".
Distortion: Token based counter to aura reading and when it goes off you can learn what aura reading the killer has and it hides scratch marks. Does nothing if the killer doesn't use aura reading, making it practically dead in the water in that condition nor does it counter killer instinct. Can run out (admittedly with effort) and rarely does anything in chase. Good, not "broken".
Killer
Deadlock: blocks the gen with the most progress passively when a gen is finished and you know which one. You can't choose which gen, when it goes off, you lost a gen, you can't regress the gen you most likely need to, and another gen could pop anyway. Ok, but not "broken".
Grim Embrace: 12 sec (we think) block after hooking a survivor for the first time, and upon hooking all 4 once get a 40 sec block and some aura reading on the obsession. You need to find each survivor and hook them to get value and only get full value when you don't hook the obsession last for procing. Its annoying to us but we ain't gonna call that "broken".
Surge: upon downing a survivor with a basic hit, explode nearby gens. Does not work with many powers, can chew through available regression events of not careful, and you need to fight the survivors of you want to decide where you want to proc it. Good, not amazing, not "broken".
Pop: Catch and hook a survivor for the limited time ability to kick a chunk off a gens progress. Seems balanced to us as your rewarded for successfully doing your mission and actually need to go and get to the gen you want to regress before it pops. Definitely doesn't fit "broken".
Pain res: Hook a survivor for the first time on a special hook to kick a chunk off the gen with the most progress. As an additional bonus they scream. Like pop your rewarded for doing your job and get bonuses for going out of your way for the other requirements (fresh special hooks). It also only works 4 times and you can't pick the gen meaning you can potentially waste a valuable charge. Same as before, not "broken".
Lethal: Aura reading at the start and an extension on all aura reading. Good for fast killers and aura builds, which is less gen regression. Also does not help in chase without help. Finally, all parts of it are countered if survivors bring distortion (with the exception of that you know if people brought it). Don't think it "broken".
For those who have read through the whole thing, we Rulebreakers thank you for your time and plz never condone advertising.
3 -
Describing each perk does not accurately display how impactful they are on the game for example.
windows-It gives info on pallets and windows yes it does now how does that impact the game? You know what's used and what's not, you know what's spawned before you run an area and you are able to better plan out your chases.
This can be done for every perk you have mentioned
also, the only reason we have different views on what's broken is because we are willing to accept different levels of impact as acceptable. It was only recently a certain dbd youtuber said that he think experience is secondary to what you bring into a lobby (items offerings ect) and as long as the best perks, items, offerings and addons I'm inclined to agree because of stuff like-
Almost a winstreaks ends with someone getting sniped with a a stack with the best stuff or a killer-playing nurse.
In a lot of close games I know I would likely win on a better map I lose due to a map offering.
A lot of game I should lose I win due to my perks when pain res keeps me in a game that was spiraling out of control.
It feels very easy using the best stuff when others are not using the best stuff but the other way around it feels miserable unless the gap in hours between you and the other players is massive.
Until that is not the case almost all the best stuff in this game is the best stuff because it is broken.
0 -
Exhaustion perks extend chases for free and sprint burst enables you to do more than any other perk in the game with it.
Its really that simple yes you can make gens go faster or heal faster but with Sprint Burst you buy your team at minimum a fixed amount of time to do anything and it gives you more of a choice of what you can use on the map every time it used, it is often the difference between getting to play strong tile or loops vs weaker tiles or loops it also lets you link things you otherwise would not 99d it also just lets you traverse the map faster generally. It is probably the best perk in the game in the correct hands.
Lithe buys time and lets you link unless windows to other tiles and gives you lots distance to work with mid chase.
Every strong build in the game if you can have an exhaustion perk in, you do. they are the best perks in the game and its why exhaustion as a status effect exists. The fact a perk like languid touch exists and its sole purpose is to apply a status effect that prevents the activation of these perks is mental, all it does is deny the best perks in the game if you set off a crow and that puts it ahead of a fair few of the perks in this game.
They are too strong and leave every other survivor perk in the dust.
0 -
And yet all the info in the world does nil if you can use it effectively. You know the closest pallet is to your left while everywhere else is effectively a deadzone, wheres the killer? Ohh surprise, coming from the left. Can't drop that single pallet without gettin hit, cant make it to the next closest without gettin hit. Plan does not survive contact with the enemy. Scenarios like such can also be run for each perk mentioned.
also, the only reason we have different views on what's broken is because we are willing to accept different levels of impact as acceptable.
Which is why we asked for what you define as "Broken". What is your "acceptable level"? We gave our definition and each perk follows through with not being "broken". Some of those things listed after also doesn't show how something is "broken". For example:
Almost a winstreaks ends with someone getting sniped with a a stack with the best stuff or a killer-playing nurse.
In a lot of close games I know I would likely win on a better map I lose due to a map offering.
A lot of game I should lose I win due to my perks when pain res keeps me in a game that was spiraling out of control.
Why isn't the one trying to get win streaks also bringing the best things? If the one running the best things still sucks and still wins, how good was the one trying to get the win streak really? Playing nurse doesn't guarantee a win, the nurse has to actually be better than the survivors to win. Isn't you losing on a map due to either the map being unbalanced or the survivors being better? Perks are suppose to help the player, in this situation pain res is doing its job and helping you.
And NONE of the above shows how any perk (which is what your original topic is about) is "broken". The closest is the pain res helping you but you coulda made a comeback any number of ways as far as we know, especially since you have to earn pain res procs.
It feels very easy using the best stuff when others are not using the best stuff but the other way around it feels miserable unless the gap in hours between you and the other players is massive.
And thats your opinion. Your welcome to it, but as one of us stated before: Whats broken for you is not broken for me and whats broken for me is not broken for senior bacon which one turn may not be broken for whomever is next on the list. To us none of the things listed are broken.
Until that is not the case almost all the best stuff in this game is the best stuff because it is broken.
And this here just makes us believe that you only think their "broken" cause they're good.
1 -
People defending Windows is crazy. There is a reason why people with 10,000 hours plus still use it. It literally carries and plays the game for you.
1 -
if we go by winrates to decide whats balanced etc, nurse and other stuff would need huge buffs.
0 -
Which is why we asked for what you define as "Broken". What is your "acceptable level"? We gave our definition and each perk follows through with not being "broken". Some of those things listed after also doesn't show how something is "broken".
over 220 odd perks exist in this game. About 20 dominate it. They are broken.
Why isn't the one trying to get win streaks also bringing the best things? If the one running the best things still sucks and still wins, how good was the one trying to get the win streak really? Playing nurse doesn't guarantee a win, the nurse has to actually be better than the survivors to win. Isn't you losing on a map due to either the map being unbalanced or the survivors being better? Perks are suppose to help the player, in this situation pain res is doing its job and helping you.
The people doing streaks are bringing the best things and going on ridiculous streaks and then are only losing to someone bringing the equivalent to the other side you need the best stuff to beat the best stuff even 4 strong players with mediocre stuff struggle that's the point I was making I think you missed it. It flew over your head in an attempt to question how good i am at the game. The general point is it's very easy to beat players of your skill level with good stuff if they don't bring the equivalent. Out perking someone (including bringing items offering ect) is very easy in dbd. Perks are a part of it but im just making that point out here…
And thats your opinion. Your welcome to it, but as one of us stated before: Whats broken for you is not broken for me and whats broken for me is not broken for senior bacon which one turn may not be broken for whomever is next on the list.
Saying "that your opinion" doesn't change reality and you are not even expressing yours you are just inferring what yours is not justifying it dismissing mine then moving on. Say why they are not broken I keep saying why they are that's what this whole thread is ive even given individual reasons up the thread although they may not be in my replies to you. I remember saying why i think the exhaustion perks are broken. I've mentioned how playing with pain res lets me claw back games earlier.
which disproves this
And NONE of the above shows how any perk (which is what your original topic is about) is "broken". The closest is the pain res helping you but you coulda made a comeback any number of ways as far as we know, especially since you have to earn pain res procs.
0 -
Can you please be a reality warper? I'll share half the winnings from a lottery ticket if you can warp it into a winning one.
0 -
We're assuming this is for us yes?
over 220 odd perks exist in this game. About 20 dominate it. They are broken.
So your definition of "broken" is a good perk. That's how we are reading this. If its not the case, your going to have to actually elaborate with words
The people doing streaks are bringing the best things and going on ridiculous streaks and then are only losing to someone bringing the equivalent to the other side you need the best stuff to beat the best stuff even 4 strong players with mediocre stuff struggle that's the point I was making I think you missed it. It flew over your head in an attempt to question how good i am at the game. The general point is it's very easy to beat players of your skill level with good stuff if they don't bring the equivalent. Out perking someone (including bringing items offering ect) is very easy in dbd. Perks are a part of it but im just making that point out here…
They're bringing what they think is best. Which in turn could be countered and rendered moot by something not considered the best by the others. You don't need to bring the best things to beat the best things. Its hard but doable. And when you make comments like:
In a lot of close games I know I would likely win on a better map I lose due to a map offering.
A lot of game I should lose I win due to my perks when pain res keeps me in a game that was spiraling out of control.
Yes. We are going to question your ability since we have no proof other than your words.
Saying "that your opinion" doesn't change reality and you are not even expressing yours you are just inferring what yours is not justifying it dismissing mine then moving on. Say why they are not broken I keep saying why they are that's what this whole thread is ive even given individual reasons up the thread although they may not be in my replies to you. I remember saying why i think the exhaustion perks are broken. I've mentioned how playing with pain res lets me claw back games earlier.
How is it "reality" when "broken" is subjective? Do you and only you decide that? No.
"Say why they are not broken I keep saying why they are that's what this whole thread is ive even given individual reasons up the thread although they may not be in my replies to you."
We did. In that long arsed list. Wana see it again? Maybe the summary if you don't feel like reading it through?
We don't see "broken" from our definition. If going by your definition then sure, they're good perks and must be "broken". But thats by your metric, not ours. Its not reality, its not law, its your opinion and your definition. We're gave reasons why we don't think they're broken, you gave reasons why you think they're broken. Strange how its still not reality that they're broken to everyone.
Sure you mentioned why you think exhaustion perks are busted, we see it (now that we bothered to look in your replies to others where we wouldn't normally look)
And we gotta say we disagree. Does Sprint Burst save you from an ambush? Save your teammate from being chased and killed? What it does is buy a few extra seconds if the killer decides to chase you and can't be run with any other exhaustion perk (and doesn't work while exhausted, of which theres a variety of flavors to inflict it).
Lithe is again "Sprint burst after vaulting. It's a once per chase (unless the killer majorly screwed up) thing and does not work while exhausted (which there are various ways to cause) and if they don't have anything to vault and works poorly when vaulting from a high place. As before, good not "broken"" (This was copied from the list. See how we explained why we don't think its "broken"?)
which disproves this
And NONE of the above shows how any perk (which is what your original topic is about) is "broken". The closest is the pain res helping you but you coulda made a comeback any number of ways as far as we know, especially since you have to earn pain res procs.You know what, sure. You disproved it in answering another and we missed it. You explained why you think they're broken. So we got a game. Can you disprove our reasons why we think the listed perks are not broken? Can you explain it so we have no other choice but to accept "reality". It has to show "broken" though, not strong. Our definition is in the list but we'll post it here for clairity:
Something that's extremely overwhelming for normally competent (not new, not competitive) players, extreme effects that are also uncountable, or something that literally breaks the game
0 -
Screw that, warping me a planet just for myself and friends
1 -
Wish they'd just remove nurse so we can get rid of the 'but muh nurse' retort already...
High MMR 4-man swiffer, literally the most stacked survivor composition with no room for unskilled play, still doesn't hit 50% winrate.
Survivors are UP. Their tools aren't 'broken'.
1 -
there is difference between useful perks and broken perks. It is all depends where you draw the line for useful vs broken.
1 -
They could nerf all survivor perks until This Is Not Happening is the #1 perk and people would still come here calling it broken...
2 -
And Calm Spirit.
1 -
THe day that my teammates stop throwing every pallet on the map before we even have 2 gens done is the day I rally for a Windows nerf
0 -
There are plenty of useful perks that are not broken in any way but they just can't compete.
Smash hit has a useful effect, but sprint burst exists.
Coup de Grace is a useful perk and it will give you hits you wouldn't otherwise get. But a perk that regresses a gen by 20% 4 times every game exists.
There are useful perks in this game and you will notice them help you when you use them but the gap between the perks at the very top and the middle is so big I don't think a perk being useful is enough to get anywhere near them.
0 -
Re commenting because it did not post.
How you have turned a post where I call for pop and pain res to be nerfed again into a look at how oppressed survivors are with the killers want to take away our toys posts is beyond my understanding
Say the line bart
"entitled survivor mains"
0 -
Nah we have been defending This is not happening and Calm Spirit because these are "broken perks" to killers.
Then your topic is about "stop defending broken perks"
1 -
Smash hit has a useful effect, but sprint burst exists.
This kind of illustrates really nicely what most folks' issue with your perspective is, though.
Sprint Burst isn't broken.
Smash HIt is just bad.
Yes, it grants an extra second of sprint, and has a shorter cooldown, but in exchange, there's a lot of killers it won't work against. The requirement of getting that pallet stun is a steep one that makes the perk way too hard to use and too unreliable in comparison to its competition.
If you want to fix that via nerfs, you'd have to nerf SB, Lithe, AND Balanced Landing out of viability.
At which point you're not all that likely to see more Smash Hit, as other perks may overtake exhaustion perks in their entirety, considering the entire class got nuked.
You're drawing a limited number of comparisons, and you're missing the bigger picture.
4 -
Its hard to use, its unreliable but it is useful if it came out at the start of this games lifespan and sprint burst was not in the game it would be used. something being outclassed doesn't mean it's not useful and there are plenty of perks like this but the top tier of the perk tier list has been allowed to run away and leave everything in the dust.
People are just used to perks, items and things in general having way too much influence in the game the general standard for perks at the top is too far above the mid-level perks.
0 -
I remember a post a while ago when someone asked about what people think the best and worst part of the forums are and players often referred to the two sides stuff, the pity parties ect but I have always thought some of the multi-thousand-hour posters were the biggest offenders but because their posts are well written they get away with it.
I just wanted to let you know that.
there is no point talking to you beyond this point.
0 -
I disagree. Perks are meant to create versatility and variance. While current perk design definitely leaves a lot to be desired, nerfing everything down to even just Smash Hit levels would make the game significantly more monotonous as you wouldn't see perks come into play much at all.
At which point the only variance would be on the killer side, as killers would still allow you to play a multitude of different matches.
1 -
I disagree because I feel the reason we don't see the variance is because of that gap, there are other factors I think that most players will aways run 1 exhaustion perk (because of the gap) but then they will put on a perk to punish tunnelling effectively leaving most of the player base with 2 real slots with completely free choices
On killer its the same with most players going
Find players perk
Slowdown
Choice
Choice
and I don't see a way to close that gap without bringing down the best perks, it doesn't need to be to smash hits level but their cant be perks doing everything and more than another perk can offer imo.
0 -
I disagree because I feel the reason we don't see the variance is because of that gap
But with any gap, there's two ways to close it. And just as an example: No amount of nerfs is going to make people pick up Red Herring.
There's a lot more you can achieve with buffs than nerfs in this area. Particularly on the survivor side.
0 -
You can't buff forever while leaving the strong stuff the same it is how you get powercreep.
for every up there has to be an equivalent down or after a while everything collapses when games will become even more about what you bring and what is good into what killer and so on.
say for example smash hit an earlier example of a perk that is good against some killers more than others, if you buff the effects to compete at the same level with sprint burst which is a very consistent perk the killers that is better against feel its more so than the killers than its worse against.
If too many of the average perks can't be buffed like this you kinda of have to start nerfing stuff and being unapologetic about it.
Make no mistake most of the stuff in this thread I've said should be nerfed I use but the only way possible to create perk variety is through nerfs
0 -
Conversely, you can get a downward spiral with nerf-creep. You nerf SB, Lithe takes over. You nerf Lithe, Balanced Landing takes over. You nerf BL, maybe you'll get Smash Hit. And then that will need to be nerfed.
'There will always be a Draco'.
It's all well and good to want all the survivor perks to be on a somewhat level field, and I agree with that. But considering the sorry state that survivor gameplay is in right now, stomping on the top is going to make the game worse overall, and it's not going to make any of the other perks start to function.
say for example smash hit an earlier example of a perk that is good against some killers more than others, if you buff the effects to compete at the same level with sprint burst which is a very consistent perk the killers that is better against feel its more so than the killers than its worse against.
I get your concern here, but that just means the devs need to get more creative with the way they intend to buff it. NOT nerf all alternatives. (And then subsequently nerfing Smash Hit because it is now in the position SB/Lithe was in)
the only way possible to create perk variety is through nerfs
That is objectively not true.
2 -
The problem is many of the strongest Survivor perks shore up design flaws (DS/OTR) and are easily avoided, or are the best of non-stackable alternatives (SB/DH). Deja Vu is the only perk buffed to stop 3-genning until a solution was found, and they added the regression limit, so Deja Vu should have the temporary buff removed now.
The strongest Killer perks are Stackable (PR and Pop, Lethal and BBQ and NtH, GE and Deadlock). The problem there is how they stack (other than aura perks, I think they are fine). Arguably I think we did the wrong nerf to 3 gens. I think we should have looked at total regression, not total events. Capping each gen at 100% regression max would be much better than 8 events total IMO. Gens being blocked needs a counter, even if gated behind a perk like say Repressed Alliance to allow for the removal of gen blocks.
0 -
Sounds like a skill issue, honestly. I see people constantly whining about perks and builds, but I see no issue as of yet. I've been playing this game since launch and it always goes back and forth like a scale. Gen rushing exists, so exhaustion was stronger at one point. Then exhaustion got nerfed and totems got stronger. Now Gen rushing is back and exhaustion is back once more. The game needs to constantly adapt and change over time, like any multiplayer game.
As killer, I don't even use any of the perks you listed and consistently 4K. I use Hoarder's and Franklin's with maybe tinkerer most of the time. There are viable build paths, but again it comes down to a player skill issue.
Distortion has been a part of my survivor builds since Jeff released and I used to see no one run it, but it's become a pretty popular perk now. Popular does not = broken. There are much stronger perks that when combined are stronger and give a seemingly unfair advantage. Stuff like prove thyself, bond, better together, blast mine, etc. I've 4K'd survivors running a variety of "broken" perks.
If anything in the game was "broken" it would pretty much guarantee victory in cases where it's used, but this is not the case here. Just say you don't like the combos, don't cry about it.
0 -
Nerf-creep has never made me not play a game (some people will have quit games when stuff they used got nerfed) but never have i left a game because "everything just got to weak"
0
