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The Inevitable Nerfing of Weave Attunement
First lets just get this part out of the way, yes it needs nerfed. Having played it extensively over the last few days, I don't think that part is even debatable. For large parts of a match it is like having infinite wallhacks. The value of knowing where players aren't is almost as valuable as knowing where players are. Counter play by survivors is possible by either not bringing or picking up items or dropping items off on some corner of the map but neither of those are healthy for the game. In short, value too high, counter play too low.
With that out of the way I've spent a lot of time thinking about the best way to make this perk viable but balanced. I've considered lowering the range of the aura reading but reached the conclusion that there is no balanced range. It will always be either too good or too bad. I think the best solution is a time limit on the aura reading per item. Something like 90 to 120 seconds seems fair. That time shouldn't be reset if the item is picked up and dropped later either.
Comments
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Do you survivors ever stop complaining at all? Are you really missing 4 slowdown perks every single game?
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Yeah, I've also been messing with it and it's much better than I expected.
It can get you some pretty insane aura-reading since items usually drop near safe spots or gens.
Post edited by Pulsar on7 -
Umm if anything it needs serious buffs. It's very weak. The only time you'd run this is for meme builds, not if your intent was actually winning.
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The problem isn't weave attunement, it's the combination with franklins that is the issue.
Multiple soloutions:
1) Make weave attunement only work on FULLY depleted items
2) Bring back old franklins so items disappear eventually and WA's value is finite now that secondary items no longer interact with franklins.
3) Make it so WA only works on items dropped by depletion through the perk itself
4) Make items on floor visible to people within its aura range, so they can pick it up
Nerfing weave's aura range or duration will send it straight to the dumpster. Weave on it's own is trash, its franklins that is the issue.6 -
"Oh no, the killer uses 2 perks to get sub par information. How horrible."
Seriously, it's only info. Info that needs to be set up by a M1 on a survivor with an item (otherwise, you can immediately pick up the item again, since the downside is not that big of a deal) and only works around the spot where you hit them. All of this at the cost of 2 perk slots. I feel like we're back to complaining about perks just to complain about perks.
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Leatherface has an addon that causes survivors items to drop when hit with his chainsaw. I think that might be the only power based addon that does this.
But it's so weird to see complaints about a 2 perk combo for aura reading after killers running full slowdown builds were just complained about and recently nerfed.
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It's the killer version of windows that needs another perk to actually set it up properly and survivors have a perk to counter it, it's fine.
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Obviously diehard Killer Mains will defend the Perk. This just shows that the Perk is overtuned. That people call it weak is just a joke.
I usually bring Items I find to the corners of the Map, but the more it is used, the more the gameplay revolves away from the main Objective. And doing a "side objective" of basically delivering Items into a Corner where they dont provide Aura Read all the time is also neither healthy nor fun.
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It kinda sucks that if I run Dramaturgy, I'm basically dropping wallhack beacons all around the map every time I get an item.
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The perk combo is definitely not weak by any means, anyone saying it is weak is a) incredibly biased or b) not very good/experience at the game.
The issue with the perk is that it absolutely destroys Solo Q squads but is easily counterable by a team on Comms, the counterplay to this combo is VERY simple, take all your items to a singular corner of the map and thats it, just like that 2/4 of the killer's perks are obsolete. Also, another very interesting counter to it is to use Object of Obsession since you get permanent aura reading on the killer within the radius of the dropped item, this is notably strong on tiles such as shack where it is extremely difficult for the killer to down you despite having aura due to seeing the killer's aura being way more powerful on survivor.
I will say maybe what they can do to 'nerf' this combo is to make the perk debuff icon of Weave Attunement on the survivor screen to fill up 'red' the closer they are to the dropped item that is revealing their aura, similar to old spinechill that filled up with red gradually as the killer moved closer to you. I think this is the best way to address this synergy as revealing the aura of dropped items will just completely kill the combo, with my proposed fix it also requires some 'detective' work from the survivors to counter 2/4 of the killer's perks, whcih I think is completely fair.
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Obviously diehard Killer Mains will defend the Perk. This just shows that the Perk is overtuned.
So, if someone says that a perk isn't that strong, that actually means it's overtuned? Wow. 261 perks in the game and all of them are overtuned then. That's some next level logic.
I mean, I could make a post about how No Mither would somehow be unfair and some hardcore survivor main would say that it's fine or even weak (which for the record I agree with), but applying that logic here, it would mean that the perk is in fact overtuned.
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I am going to play devils advocate here, and I’m genuinely curious and I’m not trying to bait, because I really haven’t had enough experience playing against it or with it, but if it’s subpar information then why are people running the combo? If it’s that weak of a combo, then it wouldn’t be replacing two more useful perks, no?
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It is more the way HOW it is defended. But yeah, it is a bad combo which is getting more popular, because we all know that Killers like to run Meme-Perks, sure. :)
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I've never played with this combo before, but I swear, if this perk will get even tiny nerf, 4 slowdowns will be the only build I will run in any mood, any day, against everything. Because if you guys gonna cry that hard on every somehow viable perk combo (not even perk, combo) appears into killer side, you deserve absolutely nothing but sweatiest tryhards every single match. And I will become one, because I tried to read this bullshit. Respectfully.
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Remember when Nic Cage came out and people actually used his perks? They were something different from the mold, if not all that strong. That's the reason why people often use new perks. If they are at least functional (by that I mean good enough to do something noticeable) people will test them. After a while they'll go back to running their usual builds though.
Weave Attunement is a niche perk. It's one of the few anti item perks in the game and one of 2 that actually do something. That already makes it stand out. Much more so since it has synergy with another perk and allows you to switch your play style a bit.
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it is not really popular. I don't this will ever be popular purely because… the counter is so easy and the information is told to the survivor that the perk is active and than half survivor just run syringe instant-heals which delete the item anyway. Like you can drop your item at the start of the trial, see that the perk is active. than just drop med-kit in non-aura zone. franklin is pointless perk when survivor plays around it and this perk won't do anything if the player just deletes their own item with syringe or heals/uses toolboxes smartly.
the items that franklin is good at countering is Key and Flashlights but at same time, survivor can just put flashlight in the corner of the map and barely anyone runs keys.
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Nerf requests are becoming more and more ridiculous. Yeah, you can get value from it, that's the point of having perks in the first place.
With the exception of small maps such as Midwich, I don't see the problem. Although we could say the same about placing a boom totem in such a way that leaves a quarter of the map winouth scratch marks.
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How often are people running into it? I've seen it 2-3 times the past week and it was fine and definitely had an impact but it didn't come across as unfair to me.
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"If perk gets nerfed, I run 4 slowdowns"
Repeat this sentiment for the last five years and you have modern DBD.
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more popular (in a sense of gaining popularity) =/= popular.
Not the first time you either misread something or made something up what I said.
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if my choice is between 4 slowdowns or permanent wall hacks at multiple tiles unless i spend 2 mins searching every blade of grass trying to figure out where little timmy dropped his toolbox (while revealing my aura to the killer the entire time) i'll take the first option.
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I speaking for myself, and I trying my best to play with different perks on killers, even knowing that 80% of them are hot garbage. I wish killer role has at least 1/3 that variety that I have on survivors, but it seems like impossible challenge, when community crying even over killer wastes 2 perk slots just to have easy counterable info.
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Phew!
Worried I missed the new and exciting Us vs Them…totally unlike the last 300.
I haven't seen this combo in any of my games, but I may try it later and see what the fuss is about!
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i am saying it won't gain popularity. more niche of a perk.
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Legion also has an add on that makes survivors drop their items when they are hit while in Frenzy.
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This could be a neat perk combo with Legion + Add-On + Thana
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I think Charlotte has one that lets Vicky have the same affect as well.
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i think the best way to balance this perk is to make its aura reading effect only apply to the survivor who dropped the item.
either that or make the aura reading only apply for like 1 second when you gain the effect and then for 1 second when you lose the effect.
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Neither role has any variety in perk and 90% of perks are useless.
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If people defend something its a proof that its overtuned??
By that logic alot of stuff you defended needs a huge nerf15 -
i played against it once. got hit with franklins, left the tile and came back later to it and carried the item to a corner. some time later i was injured and i sat to bless a totem, saw an item in the chest right next to me. didn't see the weave icon but figured it would show me, died trying to carry it to a corner. again some time passed and i went to unhook a teammate and was healing them under the hook, but what is this, an item on the ground. needless to say our heal got interrupted.
in conclusion; once again the problem isn't the perk itself, it's the survivor players refuse to learn anything, pretty much like any iteration of sadako. idk how an aura perk, almost exclusive to this one informing that it's in play, causes people trouble EVEN IF it didn't have a counter as easy as carrying items around. lmao.
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As a surv main, perks like this don't concern me. There are several other info/aura perks with way more value. And Franklin's only bothers me when I bring a BNP and get whacked before using it. Can they be annoying, sure, but they're pretty counterable.
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The devs really need to think things through a bit more before release. I think having it on a time limit is a fair option.
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WA just exposes the over reliance on items till the point that players are willing to throw the game to retrieve their item.
Most players running back to pick up the item aren't doing it to deny WA aura value, it's to stop their item from losing charges.
I've had a player DC the other day because he brought a Built to Last Hyperfocus build and his toolbox got dropped early on in the game.
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basically it boils down to a very small amount of killers are using this meh combo to get info but in reality, survivors are upset because of Franklin’s. It’s always been one of the most hated killer perks. Now we are seeing all kinds of nerf ideas that all basically boil down to “how can we remover Franklin’s from the equation”.
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Or maybe… you're relying too much on items to carry you? For Entity's sake half of the items Survivors have aren't even that good and you can ALWAYS get more, how the heck is aura reading after you drop an item even that big a deal?
Because you're that scared of losing an item because you need it to crutch on? Why not just… you know… run PERKS instead of ITEMS if it's a big deal?
Because you can't get around it with Distortion? Friend you can't get around loads of things with Distortion. Calm down, this is way weaker minor non-offensive pressure than stacked Pain-Pop-Grim-DMS EVER was, and a hell of a lot less painful.
Why do you NEED to crutch on items so hard, you will throw the game to retrieve it because of two little perks that mean the KIller is running two less annoying things such as… I dunno… Pop-Pain Res which is still meta?
Why on earth are Killers always expected to learn, adapt, and try new things when Survs get strong stuff… but when something comes out that is strong for them, Survivors never ever want to adapt to it themselves and IMMEDIATELY call for nerfs? It was Alien, then Ultimate Weapon (which did need it), then Chucky, then Unknown, then gen control, then Vecna, now it's this. Always something, keep moving the goalposts, why can Survivors have nice things and never have to adapt but Killers cannot and always have to change constantly? That's not fair. Both sides need to learn to adapt. Personally as Survivor I adapt and change up my builds frequently the second there's something new for Killers. And as Killer, I've also needed to adapt more and more as stronger things for Survivor come out. This is part of the game.
Survivors get to have their same meta forever, but Killers have had to adapt more and more and more enough times over the course of 8. Friggin'. Years.
It is Survivor side's turn now.
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Legion has the stolen sketch book add on where after the first feral frenzy hit each subsequent hit causes survivors to drop their item
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If survivors had a perk combo that just instantly nuked whatever add ons you brought, how do you think it would go over? Surely you dont need to bring strong add ons every match. You're just relying on them too much to carry you. Just run no add ons and the survivors waste their perk slots!
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the perk (or perk combo) is in a strange spot. Its useless if survivors dont bring item, yes.
though killers totally not to use the perk if there are 1-2 items. But only if there are 4 of them for maximize the effect.If a perk can deny the usage of 4 items that can save alot of time. I dont think its that bad.
I dont know how many nice things survivors get in the past and in the future.
But it will never beat the nice thing Devs give to killers: decisions to brought up 20% of kill rate it used to be.
Can you image if Devs increase the Gen time to 200sec per Gen but at the same time wants the kill rate dropped to 40%? That nice thing of 200sec Gen now sounds not so nice.
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it is useless if they don’t bring an item but since killers can see the survivors in the lobby they can just lobby dodge in none have an item
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4 slowdowns/tunnel/camp
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I mentioned it. Like Lightborne, killers can use the perk ONLY if there are at least 2 flashlights. Same to this perk, they ONLY use if there are 3-4 items. So bringing the case where survivors dont bring item just to justify the perk is weak or useless is silly, using this perk when there is 1-2 items is on killers' fault, not the perk is weak.
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Wholeheartedly this
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That argument sure is something. If players defend something, that means it's too strong.
Truly one of the takes of all time.
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I would not go that far.
Most perks on both sides are sitationally useful. That means, that in some situations, they will give good value but are useless in others.
This, of course, makes them less desirable than perks that give guaranteed value almost every game.
Does it make them useless though? No. I think not.
90% is also a bit exaggerated don't you think?
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I think killers should only be allowed to run 2 perks and brown addons otherwise everything is just too strong and unhealthy for the game. Survivors just aren't having enough fun these days because of all these OP perk combos.
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As someone who plays both sides but prefers the killer role, I would legitimately rather play against 4 slowdowns than Weave Attunement, personally.
4 slowdowns is stronger, absolutely.
However, when the killer runs 4 slowdowns, I don't have the item I spent blood points on to bring into the match get knocked out of my hands by Franklins and then used as a beacon to give the killer aura reading in that area unless I'm willing to head back over there and pick it back up and put it into a corner of the map.
It is legitimately one of the most "feel bad" perk combos I've personally played against in my 3000 hours.
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Tbh, the only reason people are complaining is cause of it being annoying to lose your item.
I myself get annoyed by the perk, cause usually I only bring strong items when I have a specific build idea in mind that needs one, such as Scavenger, Champion of Light, or some quirky MFT + altuistic Medkit build... this loadout basically deletes my build, which is obviously frustrating...
However it's quite a stretch to call this perk combo overpowered, especially when it's revealed to you on your HUD that you're affected by it... I haven't seen games where the Killer has ran it and we've been effortlessly smoked by it as a result... the game has still been absolutely winnable with this combo in play.
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Let's be clear about something here. I'm not a "survivor". I despise playing survivor. I basically only ever play survivor for the tome challenges and I hate every second of it. Unlike too many people on these forums, I don't subscribe the concept of "us vs them". What I would like to see is a balanced game that everyone can enjoy. I have been using and abusing the hell out of Frankin's and Weave. I will continue to do so for as long as it remains so powerful. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize that it is a problem. I don't want to see weave attunement be useless. The purpose of this thread is to start a constructive conversation on what would be balanced.
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You aren't using it right then. You pair it with Franklin's Demise. If you are using it with Franklin's and you still think it is underpowered then I don't know what to tell you but you are clearly doing it wrong.
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