100% iron will?
well languid touch basekit it is because complete silence is absurd. at least killers finally got a reliable exhaustion perk after all those years.
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Complete silence was not absurd before. The Perk just got overnerfed because it was used often to ShAkE Up tHe mEtA…
Anything below 100% noise reduction is just pointless and you might just equip another Perk than Iron Will.
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nah iron will 75% was still great (I use it all the time to this day) and am glad that my favorite perk since 2017 is returning to what it once was. It was changed to shake up meta and reduce the amount of people using it (same thing). I do think, if they want change it again… just add another downside, like MAYBE giving the killer a slight advantage with being able to get a lesser bloodhound effect on the survivor who is running iron will. Although I don’t think that’ll be necessary.
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Iron Will was by far the most annoying perk in the game to me when it was at 100%. Audio should be a consistent mechanic. Really bad change IMO. I don't think the perk should exist at all, let alone at 100%.
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nah, you don’t rely on sounds of pain all the time. Relying on perks is one thing but if you feel it’s annoying than there are plenty of perks to help counter the lack of grunts
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75% was enough and underrated. overnerfed yes, but i'd much rather they removed the exhaustion part instead.
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I don't think people realize how impactful this change can be in the current survivor meta. The current meta is already hold W until completely zoned. With Iron Will, you remove any audio input the killer had to tell that a survivor was even still at the tile.
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yes, but the meta on either side isn’t over powered. That’s my opinion. Still a few things I would change for balance purposes in the meta, but everything would be a minor change. Again, their are still plenty of counters to iron will at both 100% and 75% reduction in noise
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75% is not enough, since every Killer will still be able to hear you. And if they can hear you with 75%, there is no point in running Iron Will.
Unless you go against Killers who dont use a Headset.
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In my experience it was only good on the already quieter characters.
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Do you think it makes sense to argue with people who think that 100% canceling one of chase mechanics is not absurd? I don't know how bad you need to be on survivors to believe it, it's free "ok i'm going to another part of the map, enjoy your mindgames, buddy" in every second tile. Devs don't learn from their mistakes sadly.
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Yea no that is not a good change, they brought back the thing that made it too strong before.
All the other perk buffs are great though, I’m excited for new Babysitter.
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It still turns off when exhausted, though. Bring a perk or add-on to inflict exhaust if you're worried about it.
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Since it will still not work when exhausted, Iron Will will be far less popular than pre 6.1.0… Exhaustion Perks are still some of the most common Perks used, so people who use an Exhaustion-Perk will either not run Iron Will or get drastically reduced value from it.
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on11 -
I would prefer they take the approach to Iron Will like how Lucky Break works and put it on a timer that can be refilled. Although I get for a newcomer perk for a survivor you start with it may be too difficult of a concept but I don't know really anymore.
At least it needs exhaustion to proc now.
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nah, I main Bill and for him it was very useful even at 75% because he’s so loud. On quieter characters, yes, it’s more effective but doesn’t mean it was useless on those who aren’t as silent
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100% iron will wasn't that insane back then. It obviously is strong but it still has the exhaustion condition so I think it'll be fine.
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I don't care if they buffed the perk all the way up to 200% of being silent lmao. If I have to choose between an exhaustion perk and Iron Will, then I'm still taking the exhaustion perk. Considering the fact that exhaustion perks are still meta, I doubt this changes much for the majority of people.
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I can live with the 100% as long as it doesn't silence footsteps also again
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I didn’t know it did that to footsteps. See that would be broken but grunts of pain on top of exhaustion… it’s balanced. Strong, but balanced
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somehow they always buff the wrong part. Like Ruin needed 200% with disable with a death survivor, but they buff the disable part instead.
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I think with how ever present aura reading is now even more so with gen regression being very lackluster 100% iron will is probably fine especially with the exhaustion penalty. This and babysitter is pretty exciting too during a time survivors don't get much to be excited about.
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I liked everythign but the Iron Will change in the announcment, at least buff Stridor as well and make both of those perk's not work on/against Spirit when she is phasing.
I also never understood why they never made it so Stridor and Iron WIll just cancelled each other out, it's just weird that Iron Will just trumps it.
R.I.P Stridor, unique perk that needs number buffs getting a big old 0% pick rate after this next update.1 -
Horrible change. 100% was always stupid and shouldn't come back.
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I'm actually fine with 100%, I just think it should've applied Exhausted to yourself as well though so in exchange for running it you lose an Exhaustion perk. That's a fair trade. Only not being active when you are Exhausted is really irrelevant since you can just run like DH and get the full value until you need the health state.
Just flat 100% will have it back in the top 10 meta.
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I tried it only Laurie a few time and it seemed to do nothing, but maybe I gave up to early.
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oof… Laurie is just a moaning megaphone in general so I can see what you’re getting at lol
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Pretty much. A Spirit main did some testing of all the survivors with current (75%) Iron Will, which was interesting. Can skip to the end for their ranking. It was based purely on Spirit as the killer, but since most of the complaints around original Iron Will were because of Spirit (if I'm recalling correctly) they are probably the best judges when it comes to this perk.
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I really don't see how this is so bad. I mean survivors that are healthy don't make sounds except for footstep sounds either. And it's not impossible to keep up with healthy survivors.
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This is a huge mistake. 100% Iron Will was and is too strong. The audio of an injured survivor plays a huge part in the game, especially in chase, and by removing it you remove a big part of gameplay and gamesense. It also counters Spirit very well and one perk should never counter a big part of a killer. It is also stupid that survivors get reward for beeing injured (like back then with old MFT).
If the developers want to buff Iron Will then remove the exhaustion part and then everything is fine. 75% is good enough since it gives you room to confuse the killer but has a little bit of risk. 100% is just free for nothing. Year you still have the exhaustion part but not every survivor build needs an exhaustion perk and not many killers run anti exhaustion perks or even addons. As a result, this drawback is basically non existence.
I think these players know exactly how impactful this change is which is why they defend it and call it a good change that is not that strong/unhealthy. T
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The issue is breathing sounds were tied to the old version of iron will, making an injured survivor quieter than a healthy one. If this hasn't been fixed, it's a problem. Also footsteps are notoriously inconsistent, sometimes being completely silent when separated by a thin structure.
This coupled with Distortion is also going to be a nightmare for solo queue with rat teammates unhooking you and vanishing into the ether leaving the killer with little choice but to tunnel.
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Interesting, thanks :)
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This would almost be an actual argument, if Killers would not be able to tunnel through Off the Record (which hides grunts of pain AND Auras) very reliable.
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100% Iron Will WAS absurd since it didn't need to be earned, never ran out and there was no counter to it. (They even nerfed Stridor so it could no longer partially counter it).
With the requirement to not be exhausted though, I think it's actually fair to bring it back upto 100% though since there's actually counterplay now.
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It absolutely was absurd at the time.
We have crazy info perks now so now maybe it's not so bad. Hiding near a gen injured just doesn't pressure the killer like it used to now that Nowhere to Hide exists.
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When they nerfed it, they buried Iron Will. Having both not 100% silent AND can’t be used when exhausted made the perk useless for me. Those who have gotten value, please tell me how. Genuinely don’t know how to get value in current state.
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Overall the 6.1 needless double nerf victims are all slowly getting one of their double nerfs reverted so they are finally reaching the strength they should have been at after that patch. Bizarre its taking more than 2 years for so many of them. Can't wait to see Self-Care and Thana usable once again though.
I mean with a Bill pic you have to run 75% Iron Will to get normal grunts of pain audio levels, so that isn't saying much.
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spirit obviously suffers the most but 100% iron will almost completely removes mind gaming at tiles because… you can't hear anything.
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wdym? You have footsteps too
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The problem with the perk is there is no actual counterplay to its effect. I guess maybe spies, so if they happen to be near but disturb a crow you get a notification, but then you are blind and can't hear because of the visual notification. Pair it with lucky break and overcome and boom, no chases will be taking place after the first hit.
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Then why is OTR so bad? Killers have no problem at all tunneling a Survivor with OTR. If removal of grunts of pain would be that strong, they would not have such an easy time tunneling.
What now happens is the same what always happens - Forums throw a tantrum and in a few weeks, nobody cares. Complaints about Sabotage are already gone, because it does nothing. Iron Will will be weaker than pre 6.1.0… We will now see a few weeks of complaints and after a week after it hit live, nobody will talk about it anymore.
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Well, I don't tunnel. So, considering this perk hard counters spirit once again, what is the counterplay of the perk that makes it fair?
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That you dont tunnel is not part of the topic. I was asking a question. If 100% noise reduction would be that strong, why can Killers easily tunnel Survivors who have Off the Record? Which also prevents Aura read?
You know, it gets tired to be right all the time on this forum.6 -
I never saw a more absurd claim from you then this. People always claim that 75% noise reduction could as well not exist and that it doesn't do anything, and this is utter nonsense. 100% noise reduction just took away one of the killers main tools and completely cut it out of the game, without any setup, work or repercussion. Not hearing survivors ever and at every point was beyond broken, it wasn't just "to sHaKe Up ThE mEtA", it was seriously broken and extremely unfair to play against, with all the "clever" techs that revolved around it.
Killers audio is already so loud and blasting in their ears, that a 25% survivor can easily slip away, but AT LEAST the killer has a fighting chance. I tried the "absolutely worthless and overnerfed" Iron Will out multiple times and nearly always got value out of it. People are so hung up on the notion that being completely silence on command is fun and fair and even a single noise is completely and utterly destroying the perks raison d'etre, that its laughable.
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I don't mind it personally but I believe that the better route for the perk was to keep it at 75%, but remove the exhaustion part to it.
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What's tiring is people avoiding the initial conversation by starting a new one. But if being right is that important to you, having a conversation with you is pointless because you are simply listening to respond instead of to hear.
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I was simply asking you the question why OTR is not good and Killers can easily tunnel a person with OTR, when 100% Noise Reduction is so strong. And yet I did not get an answer aside from "I dont tunnel".
The answer is simply - the Forums are once again throwing a tantrum for nothing. When it goes live, people will realize that
- Iron Will will be less used because it still does not work while exhausted (and Exhaustion-Perks are popular)
- Iron Will is far weaker than it was before 6.1.0, simply because we have more ways of tracking now and it still has the other downside
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So the counter is exhaustion. Thank you for answering the question I didn't know it worked like that. As for your question I simply said I don't tunnel because I don't have an experience to tell you why that specific scenario works out that way. Perhaps people are hooked in dead zones so there is clear line of sight and no resources due to bad map RNG. I wouldn't know, cuz that's not how I play. However, due to bad audio coding by BHVR, wonky scratch marks (also bad coding), and experiencing old Iron Will, I have made wrong guesses that have extended chases significantly. Just not too excited about it is all.
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This is incorrect, allow me to correct your lack of understanding, which is fair in all honesty because this perk isn't run hardly anymore so people who aren't more old school wouldn't know because they haven't had a chance to deal with it.
Here is the thing, when you are not injured you do make sounds, breathing mostly and the killer CAN hear this, it's very subtle and hard to notice but I have found survivors hiding because of this. Now when you are injured you do NOT make breathing sounds, you only make "injured" sounds, and Iron Will removes these injured sounds when it is 100% this you are in fact actually quieter when injured than when you are alive and it makes it very VERY hard to track survivors. This is a very unhealthy change imo because back in the day this perk was absolutely a free chase escape and you don't do anything to earn it and it has unlimited duration, very overpowered.6 -
OTR is strong in general during a chase. What it's not strong at is preventing tunneling because usually a tunneling killer will just hit immediately off hook, remove the endurance effect, and then will have LOS to follow you. It is still quite useful for trying to break chase, but has a finite duration and limited number of uses that makes it balanced. Neither of those applies to IW.
And as mentioned before, no breathing sounds and footsteps that are as consistent as DBD's matchmaking make it a miserable experience trying to track people.
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Exactly. Before Iron Will got nerfed, it was just 100% Noise Reduction. In 6.1.0 it got a Double Nerf - 75% reduction of grunts of pain and not working at all when Exhausted.
This Double Nerf made the Perk basically non-existent. And now they are reverting one part of the Nerf, and IMO it is the part which makes more sense. Because 75% reduction might as well be nothing, the Killer will still hear you. Harder, but will still hear the Survivor. So you might just not use Iron Will at all (which many players do).
With the revert the Perk becomes an option for people who dont run Exhaustion Perks. So more variety (something Killer players want to have when talking about Survivor Builds). And players were fine with tracking Survivors before 6.1.0, when Iron Will was at its strongest. They will also be fine nowadays, it should be even easier due to more tracking options and the fact that the Survivor will most likely not run any Exhaustion Perk when using Iron Will.
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