Hooks vs Pallets
I am a survivor main, and play killer once in awhile, I see where now the hooks that are broke will now respawn after 60 seconds due to dead spots and killers having issues getting survivors to hooks, so my question is what about the survivors that get caught in those same type areas but pallets have been destroyed? Why not make it fair and have them respawn as well after 60 seconds? And can we do something about the slugging at end game where killers have two left do they down one and leave until they find the other? Why not after 30 seconds if not picked up, we automatically get up to stop this. Please remember it takes 4 survivors to play to one killer, and people get tired of these situations. And if killers cry, changes are made. I’m not crying I just want to see the same consideration for survivors. I love this game, I’m a Xbox player and I’ve been playing since day one. Thanks for your time. I’ll await your feedback.
Answers
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No you should not have respawning pallets.
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Wow could you imagine respawning pallets..that would be beyond broken.
Many loops are overtuned to where there are lots of forced break pallets since you can't realistically attempt to play the loop with how overly safe it is. The only way you get through this is eating away the pallets and trying to stall the gens long enough to create deadzones. Part of survivor skill is managing that finite resource.
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"Part of survivor skill is managing that finite resource."
I always assumed it was part of the killer skill to do the same with hooks. Survivors use broken hooks as a tactic, often to combat toxicity, but not always. It's a strange choice in my opinion, and I say that as someone who does like to play both sides. If I, as a killer, can be baited into hooking only on one side of the map, that's my 3 gen equivalent.
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I don't know about other people, but I would legitimately never play killer again. I don't care whether or not the hooks respawning thing goes live, dead zones are an annoyance but slugging has never bothered me that much. Pallets respawning would be miserable.
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Survivor would be easy mode with respawning pallets
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Pallets and hooks are..... completely different things that do different things. This is an incredibly far reach for equivalency.
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They aren't similar in slightest
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Well as killer when the survivor is downed you only have a limited choice of where to hook that survivor because of bad hook rng, however as survivor when in chase you generally decide where you want to lead the chase unless you get zoned. Pallets are designed in a way that they slow down the killer but can be destroyed to make the area weaker, overall increasing the strenght of the killer in chase the more resources got drained.
If hooks did not respawn the killer can just slug that person for 4 min because he has no way of hooking that person, if there is a dead zone on the map the survivor can just not go there and try to not get zoned, it is not comparable.
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But the survivors can decide what gens to repair, the killer only has a limited choice of where to hook someone... I don't see how this is comparable...
Also yes part of killers skill is managing finite resources, but that does not mean hooks, it means his time…the killers time in the match is limited by how effectively the survivors are doing their objective, the survivors Ressource are pallets they need to be resourceful about using them, so the killer can be delayed enough to escape him. That's basically the balance of the match. Managing hooks and deciding where to hook is part of the macro game, but that decision gets limited if hooks break for longer or forever... Sure you need to think about that beforehand, but usually you dont have much of a choice to begin with, starting from the edge of the map there is 1 maybe 2 hooks in range to hook the survivor on, the next one who dies there might just not be hookable... And that sucks for both sides, the killer is forced to slug and the survivor is either annoyed on the ground or he is doing it on purpose to not able to be hooked, just sucks for both sides.
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As a killer, you're allowed to drop a chase and go apply pressure to the people doing gens. This is literally your main skill. There seems to be a mindset that every chase should end in a hook or a slug, period. Don't chase that person into the dead zone just because you see them. Throw on Discordance or another info perk and get the most value out of the map.
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So let me get this right, I am supposed to drop chase because the guy is running into a hook deadzone? What do you think the other guys will do then? The same perhaps? That is the macro part of the game, to decide whether or not to continue a chase or not, however to say that there should be chases you just cannot win is ridiculous, maybe you throw the game to win the chase, but you should be able to do so, and reach a hook, unless it gets saboed or bodyblocked, there should just not be places that when survivors go there you cannot hook them but need to slug.
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SLUGGING
I feel that survivors should be given the option to Harakiri if they are slugged for 3 mins.
And the Killer gets 50k bp for it
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First off, it would be better off at 240s (to match the 4 to 1 ratio of 60s hook respawn), and arguably they could even be Fragile Pallets (I would have 240s and respawn the oldest pallet, or a 240s CD on each pallet after break to respawn as a fragile pallet). Overall though, it would be equally bad and we shouldn't engage in two wrongs hoping to make a right. Secondly, while the hook respawn is a bad change, it most likely will provide more value to the baby/average bottom 75% than it takes away from the top 25% macro skill. Third, not every change needs an equal opposite side change, because if kill rates are too high, obviously Killer (as a whole or a specific one) would need to be nerfed alone. Fourth, slugging complaints are valid, if there is no Kobe equivalent for slugging, then bleedouts should now be punishable if you provide a certain bar of evidence that you could have been hooked (eg. any afk crows under a hook ending in a bleedout).
If the Survs all are doing that, then they aren't progressing the gens faster than they are running out of pallets. Also if there is a hook deadzone, that means there is/are only 1/2 Survivors left, because 1 dead hook isn't enough to create a hook deadzone, even on Midwich.
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Bold assumption, I had dozens of games where there was only 1 hook around and after it was gone everyone died in the same corner and was therfore bled out there... Hook rng can be really bad... And mideich is even worse because sometimes it spawns hooks that are blocked by random clutter, so you cannot even use them.
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As an almost full surv main I don't really have an issue with it but in regards to slugging I only really have issues with a 4 man slug, I feel in matches like that there should be some counter other than unbreakable or no mither but idk how they'd implement it and I'm pretty sure bhvr said slugging is fine so oh well
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I mean every time I see someone claim this, they seem to magically fail to have any pictures to prove that claim (which, if they were winning that easily that they had only 1 person remaining, and needed to bleedout, they had all the time to pickup, look from the corner, hit the screenshot hotkey, then drop safely). The picture that one person posted showed 2 people dead, and they could still reach either the hook above them (or basement below to their right if they rolled the 50-50 on Midwich), or the middle hook from where they downed the 3rd.
I was just downed in a match hours ago as the final person where most people died in the corner with the exit gate, and the Killer still managed to reach the central hook from within the the gates (I barely opened it, but got downed about at the middle pillars).
When I saw BS gen placements I took pictures, and in one case it was egregious enough for me to report. So I'm gunna have to doubt you without a picture to prove it, otherwise my claim is equally trustworthy as a 'trust me bro that never happens'.
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I'm not randomly screenshotting all the bs that happens in dbd, otherwise I would have hundreds of picture ranging from glitches, graphic, errors, hackers, hooks that cannot be accessed, two hooks on coldwind 3 m apart form each other to no hooks in 30 m area at all... Why would I even screenshot something like that? Just because maybe eventually someone on the forums wants proof of it?
The difference between it does and it does not is just that "it does not happen" is not something you can proof. The exit gate example is great, I cannot count how many games I had where I downed two or three people close to the gate and barely managed to hook one or two because there were not enough hooks around.
That's fine if you don't believe that, I don't really care about that anyway ^^
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Kill rates would plummet by like 50% or more. Some people can make 1 loop last an entire generator or 3. And have the pallet respawn there? Survivors might as well respawn lol
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I think pallets should be brought back as well just with a little disadvantage. If hooks respawn after 60 seconds (I mean the original hangman's trick did that but with 10 seconds instead of 60) pallets could respawn with like a 120-180 sec cd and an added condition of being fragile but not insta break so killers get a bit punished for constantly respecting pallets. Either half the break time of each iteration of the respawned pallet and they can only respawn twice (so 2s (or default) → 1s → 0.5s → no respawn or insta break) or it breaks after briefly finishing a vault action or another scenario where pallets break themselves after 2s automatically after dropping if they are respawned (they still respawn twice or so).
That way the thing that occurs during the anniversary where killers respect 85% of party pallets won't be a problem and they wouldn't get a free hit.
The reason why insta-break is fine in the event is that there is basically barely any limitations of spawning them, but in a normal game where very map dependantly (from 8-30) either pallets are the only resources that can loop or there are enough windows on the map where pallets are not as neccessary and only gives survivors a hot second to think about their next move.
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There 100% should not be respawning pallets. However, killers should also have to strategize how they manage their hooks when hooking deathhook survivors. To have basically no consequences other than a short 60 wait diminishes the gameplay interactions between the 2 sides and rewards poor gameplay on the killers part. Hook respawning can exist as a mechanic but it needs to be balanced and reward good decision making and not interrupt the games mechanics.
By having hook breaking, the killer has to be wary of how they use their hooks, just like survivors have to be wary of which gens they finish to avoid a 3 gen. Due to the importance of hook management, a tunneling killer will sometimes have to take a survivor further before hooking than normal to avoid making a deadzone. This gives survivors extra time and opportunity to make altruistic saves. Simply put, making hooks respawns actually is a buff to tunneling in a roundabout way. A tunneling killer can now just always use the closest hook for any deathhook survivor and get back into chase faster as a result.
Furthermore we all know that once a survivor is out of the game, the game gets much much easier for the killer role. By have respawning hooks, this makes the 3v1 or 2v1 even harder for survivors. Forcing the killer to walk father and waste more time if they did not use good hook management was a way for survivors to punish bad hook management.
While it is true that on some maps survivors can force a deadzone, this is a issue of map design which should be addressed in other ways. Good killers who have proper hook management and will avoid having hook deadzones 99% of the time. Bad killers who don't perform proper hook management should not be excessively rewarded for refusing to improve.
TLDR:
Hook respawns are just not needed for most cases, and the cases that require it could be solved by better map design. Hook respawning is a bandaid feature to fix poor map design and hook RNG. 60 seconds is way too short for to properly reward or punish hook management and removes strategic gameplay and decision making from both sides. 120 seconds or 180 seconds would be much more reasonable as it would avoid hook deadzones given enough time, while still allowing for hooks to be strategically relevant. This game needs more strategic play and interaction not less.0 -
Ofc this whole thing is a band aid fix, but fixing map design would be a lot more work, so I can understand why they go this way, respawning hooks are not an issue though. If the respawn time is too long and I am in a situation where I cannot hook someone I basically have to bleed them out.
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Well, we have the party pallets in the anniversary event that Survivors can place at will. The major downside being that the pallets immediately break upon being thrown, so I personally don't find them useful. How do we feel about that feature?
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You'd screenshot it to report it as a bug here on the forums to get it fixed. They found some hook bugs from such reports and fixed them because of those reports. Same with the gen location. With the picture proof (along with the logs for the Devs) they are able to see, analyze, and fix the problem.
You could also screenshot it to show to your friends (or fellow forum participants) a "look at this bull schenanigans" type of thing. I've done hard recordings of cheaters, but still shared it with my friends afterward to be like "did you know this type of cheat exists?", and we have a laugh together.
What I am saying is that the argument of "I had no choice but to bleed someone out guys, honest" is more often a lie than not. Someone wiggles out en-route to hook and runs back to the corner, feel free to bleed them out, but that isn't the vast majority of actual cases.
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I'm certainly not doing that… This game does not even offer a replay mode so I can check myself whether or not someone was cheating, I am therefore certainly not wasting my time on such a bug ridden mess like this game… If it was more convenient I might do that, but as it is nah.
Ok, for what? Like everyone knows the game is full of bugs cheaters and dumb stuff, why should I care to show people what they already saw a thousand times? Besides the point where I would need to censor all that stuff so people don't witch hunt the cheaters, or whatever reason there is for that rule. Seems too much effort for literally nothing as a reward.
I mean generally speaking since bleeding someone out is a legitimate way to kill a survivor I don't think I need much of a reason to bleed someone out? But usually you can judge fairly easily whether you make it to a hook or not, so I don't need to pick them up and let them wiggle to know whether or not I make it. My point was more like if the guys has to stay on the floor for that long until I can hook them on a hook that will only despawn for half the match again I might as well bleed them out as that is just faster.
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As player that tend to play killer more then Survivors, yet play equality! That is a horrible change proposal....
The hooks respawn after being killed, I do think it would be bit crazy at first, until i reminded of one of the reasons killers slugs is because of dead zone and lack or proper hook placements in those areas to make it less difficult to get a hook in time. So I am fine with it, maybe if they bump the number to extra 30-60 seconds or less then 2 minutes. This would be a good healthy change.
But... RESPAWN PALLETS.... are you serious?!?
Pallets is and will also be a finite resources,at a survivor disposal of keeping distance and prolonged the Killer's pursuit in a chase. There is quite a few strong loops, like for instance the killer shack and it's god pallet. Imagine being able to waste couple of minutes in looping, especially when the pallet is destroyed; and suddenly, the god pallet is back again within 60 seconds. That would make stronger/more experience Survivor op, but also makes any form of Survivor's mistakes like pre droping strong pallets early pretty much invalidate. Pallets being finite is meant to educate bad survivors players on the concept of wasting too many pallets in the early part of the game, otherwise the killer will have a easier time chasing and downing survivors without any precious pallets and sometimes lack of window vaults to save them.
It is not like killers have the power to delete any pallets before they even dropped, so NO, pallets shouldn't be able to respawn PERIOD.
(And if anyone does care about making pallets be able to respawn. Make a perk about it and balanced so that it cannot be abused, and make playing Killer more horrible then it needs to be)
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Yeah it should be on the devs to fix the game, but if we want improvements shouldn't we at least take to effort to help them? Yeah replays would fix the vast majority of this 'barrier to entry' for reporting bugs and cheaters, but that doesn't mean I go 'ah fudge it, I'll let that cheater ruin my game without reporting them'.
Censoring names even in paint isn't difficult, here's a less than 1 minute 3 step guide.
Super easy! Hopefully you feel empowered enough to help others (the devs through reports), in order to help yourself (to fix bugs or report cheaters and make the game better)!
As far as the final paragraph is concerned, I was speaking of the people clearly using Bleedouts to BM, rather than simply being unable to hook. They seem to be the vast majority of people complaining about lack of hooks with how plentiful hooks have been in my Survivor/SWF/Killer matches. If the Survivor runs back into a corner after they wiggled free, I'm not complaining about them being bledout. The issue is if we are making hook changes to fix the bleedout issue, we should give Survivors a Kobe mechanic to bleedout quicker as well, in order to prevent bleedout time wasting to affect everyone. Bleedout BM is the far more common scenario that is happening in my experience, so it should be prioritized, or at the bare minimum simultaneously addressed.
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No. That's a horrible idea. If pallets were to respawn, balance would fly out the window, survivors could pre drop every pallet without consequences, some maps (especially The Game) would become completely pointless to play on with any killer but Nurse and hiding to regenerate pallets would become a meta play style.
If this were to happen, then I'd quite both sides. I wouldn't want to play a game where all my team mates just hide and rarely ever touch a gen (much more than now) and that goes 30+ minutes with basically nothing happening and playing killer would become just as dull. You'd run around chasing survivors that don't use any brain power at all since looping and mind gaming would be obsolete and you'd still lose.
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Not really, it is their game and their job to fix it the players should not the be the Guinea pig when they for some reason break vault distances for female survivors for the 5th time, most bugs get reported several times anyway and worst case someone makes a video about it or a content creator shines light on the issue, if you want to help them sure go for it. But I am surely not making extra steps to help them when they for whatevee reason resist to give the game basic functionality that has been the standard in video games for over a decade now.
I have never had a situation where I felt like a cheater ruined my game, I don't get bothered by them no matter what happens. In case I get one I just go afk, I am not playing matches with cheaters and instead do something else.
I know it is easy, but I should not be required to do any extra steps... I should have a report window explain what and when it happens and that is it... Maybe give the time in the replay, but I m not going out of my way to use anything external or open a ticket on their side to do something as simple as reporting a cheater, it is ridiculous that this is or at least was how this game does these things and I don't think this is acceptable at all, I am not participating in stuff like that unless they at least offer the bare minimum.
I don't know man ^^ Just because the devs know a bug exists does not mean they fix it, Nurse fov and fatigue have been bugged for 8 months or so now... And it still did not get fixed as far as I know... Where is even the point of reporting stuff ^^ At some point they removed anti aliasing on accident and it took them 3 years to being it back... I have no trust in them fixing stuff that they clearly know about. And if I don't have the faith that they will actually fix stuff I take the time to report then I am just wasting my time.
Sure, a concede button or bleed out give up or whatever would be great, how exactly it works is ofc up for debate, but I they should implement it in some way.
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I know my neighbor's house is burning, but I have no reason to help them flee, ring the doorbell, or call the fire department. It isn't a matter of doing it because you feel like you should, it is a matter of doing it because you know it is right. At the same time, I can understand being so burdened by the rest of life's obligations, that one more thing is enough to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I especially understand the difficulty of recording in response to cheating, and having to force them to cheat in front of you again for the report, then having to log in and change your password through the email because the time since it was last changed was too long, then having to fill out the form (or be annoyed by the AI chatbot which is less efficient), then looking up your steam ID, then finally being able to submit the report on them.
I 100% agree we should have replays though, as they are the best way to learn strategies/perks/hiding spots, find cheaters, and show off cool moments.
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That has to be the weirdest comparison ever. You have a legal obligation to call the fire department in that case, same as when you witness a traffic accident with noone being around or seeing a person suffer a heart attack. You are obliged to call the ambulance or whoever is appropriate. And I don't know how it is morally right to waste my time in doing things that most likely will not result in anything… It is already hard to reason that a moral obligation is there to report bugs, perhaps for cheaters in consecutive and extreme cases but surely not for bugs.
Agreed, like I said it is just too much work, and I don't care enough about it to go through that. If the devs want my help in such things they should at least make the report system more convenient.
Indeed, lets hope the new engine allows for that, otherwise they might as well just re write the whole game in an engine that allows it, considering how bad spaghetti code tends to be.
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Lol of you're chasing one guy for three gens, that's on you for not walking away.
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There isn't a legal 'obligation to act'/'duty to act' everywhere (or some are limited to only if you are responsible/involved eg. auto accident as one of the parties in the accident), even if I do think it is a good standard to prevent the bystander effect.
(Also IIRC the old engine [UE4] had a replay feature built in, it just was never implemented into DBD. UE5 still has replay functionality, and we can only hope they eventually implement it.)
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Maybe not in every country, but in certain countries you need to call the ambulance or do first aid when an accident happened and it is risk free for you to help. It is however not limited to you causing it or being involved in it, it is enough that you are close by/witness it/happen to come by later.
Hm…interesting, they always said they would have needed to implement it in the beginning and later on is not possible.
Post edited by Archol123 on0
