Let’s talk…. Cruelty

When i get a really annoying stun lock or sabo squad i just go to the basement and vibe in there. They don't get any extra points, and I don't have to deal with their asses.

We maybe missing the point so if so ignore us.

To answer the question, it kinda does. People who experience "cruelty" either try and get better to not experience that again (or bad case scenario inflict it on others) or leave and say F it. Outta a sense of ego, fear, whatever, but it does motivate people to do one or the other.

We feel it doesn't have an "edge" by default but can because this game is very open in what players can do (for its type). The evils of free will as this free reign allows this "cruelty" in the first place along with the other good and bad that comes with.

On topic, the examples listed, I think accomplish the opposite. Toxicity takes away from the games edge, it doesn't add to it.

That edge you talk about only is achieved when the game is moving along, both sides racing to accomplish their objectives. I find DbD incredibly intense, especially when I'm in situations where I'm on death hook and there is one gen to go, escape is a possibility, but far from guaranteed. The fact that as a survivor you can lose at the very end makes it incredibly exciting.

Toxic behaviors are just boring. If I hit a killer that is just bleeding people out (not slugging for a strategic purpose, but in such a dominant position he can bleed everyone out), its boring. The other side of this is survivors either just waiting by the exit gates to tbag or bully squads not even trying to do gens. Neither situation is exciting, its just dull.

The toxic behaviors almost made me quit the game when I first started until I saw the piece of advice to have something else to do when playing DbD. It's one of the worst criticisms I have of DbD, that the game is much more fun if you have another game, something to read, etc. ready to go in case you get put in a situation where the excitement disappears and you're trapped in a pointless, dull situation.

The edge is the “Us vs Them” divide this community has and it’s even affected me. If you say ”Pain Rez was fine at 25%” you’ll have a thousand comments calling you an entitled brain dead killer main. Just like if you thought MFT was fine you’d ignite a firestorm of replies.

Too many people don’t play the other side and honestly should not be speaking about the games balance. It’s easy for me to ignore survivor problems because I think they are overblown until I go into solo queue lobbies and get tunneled, slugged and humped for looping for more than 5 seconds.

The replies on these forums are a perfect example, every single thread is people fighting each other and trying to make underhanded remarks while trying not to get caught doing it. And nobody cares about the actual facts of anything it’s really just about how they feel. Killers have trash kill rates and get buffed and people complain. Solo Queue has low escape rates so they get an info hud and people complain.

The “Us vs Them” cycle honestly needs to end but this community won’t let it happen ever. I’m so tired of seeing “killer sided update” “survivor sided game” and so on. This community frankly is exhausting sometimes. It doesn’t have to be this way, we could change it; and I hope we do.

To me it comes across as a power/responsibility problem.

As an exanple of what I mean, The C++ programming language is a very powerful tool, that let's you get VERY close to the hardware if you want to, and also allows you to basically do whatever you want with memory locations and alike... however with the power to do that, there is much more responsibility in a language like C++ compared to Java or Python that abstract things away from you.

In C++, whatever you tell the compiler to do, it'll do it, no questions asked, and no matter how stupid it is; to point we have a C++ saying "never take take away the users ability to shoot themselves in the foot". Having that power means to get low level means you should be responsible with what you do there.

DBD is like C++; there is an undeniable personal relationship between killer and survivor, allowing both players to get pretty low level and get a really good look at each other. As such, whichever side loses each exchange, it hits closer to the bone than a lot of other games... and DBD is built in a way where you have a LOT of power and freedom to decide how you play and do whatever you want... which obviously also allows you to be as toxic as you want...

I don't think DBD iz more toxic than any other online game I've ever played.... but it's definitely a more raw human experience than any other game I've ever played... and I think a responsible player is mindful of just how personal DBD can be.

Team based game yet the game doesn't do anything to enforce teamplay.

You can literally bring 4 selfish perks and a key into every trial and stealth the entire time and it's allowed within the rules.

You want people to play out every match based on some arbitrary honor code while people consistently do everything but gens while someone is being tunneled.

Unless side quests and solo perks are removed and BHVR starts punishing people who mess around then going next will continue to be fair game which is why they haven't removed it.

Killer feels a lot better to play because it's reliable, survivor is a frustrating mess because there's no consistency due to the devs refusing to let go of the asinine 'all playstyles are valid' mindset.

I give what i get.

As a survivor im hoping on relaxed games, and actually a lot of killers are nice, but some are also goofballs that hardcore tunnels at 5 gens and then i become sweaty, i will drop all the pallets on their head and BM them. (but that is not how a normally play).

As a killer I normally play relaxed unless i have a challenge that tells me to get x hook kills or iri challenges, but if people keep stunning me just for the sake of it, I start playing sweaty. The funny part is, a lot of them complain in the endgame chat, even though they brought it on themselves.

And my dream is for people like you to all have their own queue as well and ONLY play with others like yourself. The premise that a player has to stay in the game when a killer is actively doing something as unfun and overpowered as tunneling, or even worse(and becoming a VERY common occurrence) in going out of their way to BM and be as toxic as possible, just because said "teammates" are basically saying "too bad, you're fun doesn't matter, just deal with it so WE can escape," is ridiculous.

This game isn't a job, and it shouldn't feel like it either. The way a lot of killers have decided to play recently has killed any drive for a ton of players to even boot up the game anymore. People who think like I stated above are another reason. Maybe it doesn't happen to you, but when you play x amount of games and the overwhelming majority of them become so horrendous that you make the decision that NODD3RS has, maybe instead of blaming them you can look more at the underlying problem of why they've come to that decision. They have every right to make that choice, because, again, this is a game that they bought, to have fun.

Quite frankly, the selfish view that x person's fun doesn't matter, mine does and that's more important, needs to change. It's why we are where we are in the first place. If people on both sides started realizing that they're playing with other human beings, not bots, and took a little consideration in to making sure it's not a miserable experience for everyone else, I have no doubt that these conversations would be less common. But as long as people put so much emphasis on "winning" over everything else, which becomes incredibly unhealthy over time, it is what it is.

And sure, make different queues for the two sides like you said. I guarantee that in time, after all the super sweating, tunneling, hitting on hook, unnecessary bleedouts, t-bagging, flashing, notification spamming and other types BM'ing that absolutely will take place, most people will be playing the other one.

Just try to play for fun and don't look the chat that might make it more mentally bearable.

True story. I guess at that point, they keep getting knocked back down & it's a repeating cycle for all involved. Good point.

The main issue, in my opinion, is dehumanization expressed as not considering your opponents as other human beings worthy of empathy, not attempting to understand the other person's experiences, and being quick to justify people's own behaviour and dismiss others.

As an example, let's look at the a summary of arguments made for tunneling (which many dislike) and being teabagged (defined here not as an attempt to communicate but rather an attempt to taunt or insult a Killer which many also dislike).

Tunneling: It's just a tactic to reduce survivor efficiency so I can win and it's fun to win. I'm not responsible for the other side's fun. If people don't like tactics to encourage Killer chances or are overly offended by being tunneled they shouldn't play competitive games.

Teabagging: It's just a tactic to get the Killer to chase me so we can win or just fun to do. I'm not responsible for the other side's fun. If people don't like tactics to encourage Survivor chances or are overly offended by being teabagged they shouldn't play competitive games.

At its basic, they're the same picture as per the meme.

This doesn’t happen very much in real life as people with that attitude quite quickly don't get asked to return to play. They're labelled bad sports and not invited to return.

With video games, there's an unfortunate tendency for people to dehumanize the other player since there are very few consequences to not doing so. For a game as large as DbD it's not going to just die rapidly as what happened with other games such as VHS that didn't consider the fun of one side, you can always just queue for another match and not have to worry about the people whose fun you just ruined, and you never have to see the people involved.

Getting rid of the cruelty would just require that players treat other people just how they would want to be treated. That's a lot easier said than done though unfortunately.

All the cruel interactions you see in the game is just the proof of the simple facts: humans are cruel and indifferent. All the "empathy" and "teamwork" are only skin deep. When they get an opportunity to behave like they always wanted to and not get punished, they embrace it gladly.