Please don’t ever bring back the remote hooks

Insta hooks only allows you to hook nearby, which is the same hooks you can reach by walking into

Wiggle mechanics are never meant to allow you to wiggle out, even with perks or anything it is still true, and all that save or whatever things are just lag issue

I never said anything related to strength of it, just noted that your idea of wiggling is incorrect

When playing as a survivor, I am dissatisfied with not being able to aim for sabotage, light stun, or party play that combines these, but if you think about it from a killer's perspective, the remote hook function is an option that will greatly improve your quality of life. This is a feature I would like to see re-introduced with some restrictions and conditions.

the strength is that it could be stacked with agitation to send everyone into the basement. that was actually my event build for all killers. it was just run iron grasp+agitation, walk half the map away and then press remote hook at last second to send everyone into the basement. What a strategy….

so why do survivor instantly complete the generator after finishing the 90 charges? They should need spend 10 second to start-up generator after fully repairing it. that is like close equivalent to carrying people to a hook. If the killer interrupts survivor before they start-up gen, they reduce drastically reduce charges of a gen from a kick. maybe pop goes weasel as a perk no longer affects normal kicks but increases # of charges when a generator is fully repaired. You know.. like killer version of sabotage. This is just an idea. once this happens, the gen is blocked/cannot be regressed.

Could be good game-delay tactic idea for killer.

smart survivors can avoid going down in the basement where both perks is not enough to make to basement every time. remote hooking often makes strategy near unavoidable. greatly boosts the killer ability to proxy camp the entire game.

I'm not as concerned with the outcome of how long it takes for the killer.

I'm more concerned that remote hooking renders flashlight saves, body blocking, flashbangs, and any sort of counterplay irrelevant.

I want more complexity and options, not less.

Fixing remote hooks:

1. Requires 50% wiggle progress from the survivor for it to even be an option.
2. Has a maximum range of 20 meters.
3. Never can go to basement hooks.

You have tons of options against sabotage. You can go to another hook, slug, or wait to hang them. You can run Franklin's Demise to knock their toolboxes out of their hands. You can run the any of the myriad of addons or perks that allow you to blind the killer. You can run Starstruck to discourage getting close to the killer while he's hooking.

Remote hooking literally says "Oh you are body blocking, sabotaging, attempting a flashlight save, staying in a broken hooked area of the map? Irrelevant. It was dumb. It is dumb. It should never be baseline.

That will actually makes wiggling irrelevant, because with this kind of mechanics remote hook allows you to hook a person somewhere you can't reach

Now this I agree with. I don’t know why people are so focused on the remote hooking, it’s fine. Remote pallet break however I can definitely see an argument for how busted that was yet no one complains about that. All remote hook did was save a little time, remote break however gave tons of downs that would have never happened in many scenarios with little counter play.

Yup, glad the event is over and remote hook is gone - that was miserable.

People say 'it's not bad, it's just a few seconds saved' etc, etc; but those same people neglect that killer time is 4x more valuable than survivor time. This was a point that was brought up in reverse quite often when it came to boons, DS, and more survivor time-waste perks. So saving 5 seconds with a remote hook is equivalent to saving up to 20 seconds of overall game time, and saving 10 seconds (possible with travel time saved on remote hook) is equivalent to saving up to 40 seconds of game time.

If you think I'm exaggerating, look at this way.

When you hook someone, they are indisposed and doing nothing while you can do whatever it is you want to do. One survivor also has to go for the save, meaning they aren't doing any objectives either. If you get in a chase immediately after (very possible with remote hook), there's a third survivor who also is not doing antyhing. The 4th survivor may still do objectives, but, especially in solo queue, there's a better chance they're also attempting the rescue or the chaser is bringing you to them so they're also unable to do generators.

That remote hook accelerates the above process and so, while it might save you 5-10 seconds of your individual time, it will also immediately convert into pressure that gets spread to all 4 survivors and ends up saving you 20-40 seconds of overall game/objective time PER hook.

Putting that into perspective, a single pain resonance saves you 15 seconds of gen time. Even better, a Pop Goes the Weasel proc on a 99% gen saves you ~23 seconds of gen time. Depending on how much time that remote hook saved you, it was basically giving you a free pain, a max value pop, or even both of those perks worth of time every single time you used it.

That doesn't even include the benefits it had in denying rescues.
It was crazy overpowered, and I hope never to see it again.

Remote hook and Grim Embrace have some core differences that differentiate themselves from each other. The list of differences are below (listed in order of game impact):

1. Remote Hook eliminates the 5-10 second downtime every survivor receives during the pick-up > travel > hook > travel period before each hook
   1. In contrast Grim Embrace retains that pre-hook sequence and only blocks generators after the hook occurs and everyone starts needing to do those hooked/chase/rescue/misc actions mentioned previously anyway
2. Remote hook activates on every hook, regardless of circumstances
   1. Grim Embrace activates once per unique hook
3. Remote hook prevents hook saves entirely
   1. Grim embrace's effect is subjected to potential hook saves that can postpone its effects

Although I listed 3 core differences that separates Remote Hooking from Grim Embrace, difference #1 is the one that really matters here.

Remote hook outright permanently removes the pre-hook time for all survivors on the map. Even the hooked survivor is affected by this because the sooner they are hooked, the less time they have on the game while on the hook (and the less opportunity they have to use their carry-related perks like Boil Over).

In contrast, everyone retains that pre-hook downtime against Grim Embrace, and its gen blocking effect occurs after the hook when everyone can start doing the standard hooked/chase/rescue/misc actions to reset game state. The gen blocking is therefore only really potentially affecting one person (the misc survivor, who is hopefully repairing), and not anyone else. At best it will stop a survivor from completing a generator momentarily, but that's a temporary stall instead of a time waste because that generator is not regressing, and that survivor has another role they can play when it activates anyway (rescue/chase/misc).

That critical difference in #1 is then compounded by #2, since, in this event, you could achieve this Remote Unhook pre-hook time elimination benefit up to 11 times in a match.

—

Side Note:

I also just realized that survivor carry time can extend up to 16 seconds if the survivor is constantly wiggling before they break out of the killer's grasp. So the maximum amount of time this perk can save is actually up to 16 seconds of the killer's individual time, or 64 seconds (16 * 4) of the survivor's total time.

It was therefore technically possible, especially against sabo users, that remote hooking in this event could save up to 512 seconds (8.5 minutes) worth of the survivor's collective game time for the killer in a game. That number was obtained by multiplying the above 64 seconds by 8, which is the total number of hooks you could get before killing anyone. That said, while possible, this is an unrealistic and extreme scenario.

Still, even if we assume Remote Hook saves 5-10 seconds on average per hook, that was still up to 20-40 seconds of game time saved per hook. Multiply it by 8 to represent the number of hooks you could theoretically have before killing someone, and this perk still has a maximum potential value of 160 - 320 seconds of collective survivor time saved in any one game.

Those numbers are ridiculously high, especially when you compare it to any other perk (including Grim Embrace).

Keep in mind, this side note still ignores the benefit of ignoring hooks saves.
It was just so unbelievably busted.

@VomitMommy

That's not true. You can say it makes pallet saves more difficult, because you can't screw up the timing, but it definitely was possible.

From what I understand, the moment you finish the animation to hoist someone up on your shoulder is the moment you are vulnerable to a save, but also it is the moment you can press the remote hook button. So if the killer times it correctly, the animation starts, and the hook goes through. In contrast, if they button mash or delay, then it's possible for a save window to eek out before the button press.

In that case, I do not think it is possible to save unless the killer messes up; but being reliant on your opponent messing up for 'counter-play' is a caveat you can extend to literally every argument in DBD which is why I excluded it.

If you want to use maximum time, then we can also say all survivors got downed next to a hook, which would be around 4 seconds of survivor's total time...

You're right, it can theoretically do absolutely nothing in some games, just like every other feature in the game.

The reason I brought up theoretical maximums is because most features, like perks, are hard capped as to the value they can deliver to a specified amount. Since every game is variable, these maximums are useful for gauging relative power to other similar time-saving features in the game. In fact, let's do that using a perk we already mentioned earlier: Pop Goes The Weasel.

Theoretical minimum? You don't hook, it does nothing.

Theoretical maximum? 11 hooks + gen kicks at 99.99% gen progress per gen is (11 * 0.2 * [90*.9999]) or ~198 seconds saved per match.

Compare that to the theoretical maximum of the remote hooks which were previously calculated at 512 seconds, over twice the value of Pop's ideal use-case, and the relative strength of the ability to remote hook should be apparent. For simplicity I didn't even include the time remote hooking saves when walking back from a hook to start exerting pressure, which has its own value (and is especially relevant on maps on Swamp, when you're forced to hook at the edge).

Slugging saves actually more time for killer than remote hooking. You don't need any animation, so is slugging broken?

Slugging is a unique case in that it takes double the time for someone to bleed out than if they were on a hook, does not count at all towards the time it takes to reduce their hook states (meaning unless the killer is fully bleeding them out or snowballs, they don't benefit from the down at all), and the user can recover/move on their own accord, minimizing the time burden on others to pick them up.

The reason it isn't overpowered is because of the above caveats. Slugging is literally just a gamble by the killer where they risk their last x time chasing to exert more pressure quickly on survivors in an attempt to overpower them. If the gamble fails, they lose everything they obtained prior.

Meanwhile, remote hooking allows the killer to exert that pressure as if they slugged, but without the risk to their prior progress since they get the hook anyway. Win/win for the killer with literally no downside in what's usually a risky move.

And your whole math is incorrect, simply because you calculate with 4 survivors. Well, just from that it's flawed, because you are hooking one survivor, his time is not really valid at that point.

The person being picked up, carried, and hooked, is still losing meaningful time though.

Whatever time the survivor had in being carried is removed from the game, which means they are on the hook sooner, their hook progresses faster, and their death will come sooner.

Example:
In a normal scenario:

1. Killer downs survivor A at time 0:00
2. Killer takes 10 seconds to travel and hook survivor A, hooking them at time 0:10.
3. Survivor A then has 60 seconds before reaching phase 2 at time 1:10

With remote hooking:

1. Killer downs survivor A at time 0:00
2. Killer takes 0 seconds to travel and hook survivor A, hooking them at 0:00
3. Survivor A then has 60 seconds before reaching phase 2 at time 1:00

By losing the downtime during hooking, the hooked survivor might not be robbed of objective time like the other 3 survivors are, but they are still robbed of the extra amount of time they otherwise should have had before reaching another hook stage.

That time has value too, which is why I included it in the calculations.
Even if you ignore that value out of convenience, that's still 5-10 seconds robbed from each of the other 3 survivors, for a total of 15-30 seconds (depending if you use 5 or 10 sec hook time as an average) of survivor time lost per remote hook. With 8 remote hooks before anyone dies, the theoretical maximum value is 120 - 240 seconds over the course of a game.

Notice I'm getting more and more favorable in my calculations for the benefit of the killer.
I'm doing that to showcase that the numbers are so absurd that I have room to be as lenient as you want me to be, and the value from remote hooking is still going to be absurd and exceed the max value you could get from most of any other killer perk/feature by far.

In reality I could be including the time value of remote hook to 11 hooks (the max before the game ends), the return travel time when coming back from a hook for M1 killers, and especially the value of ignoring/reducing the chance of saves. Including all of that would be fair game for comparison purposes with the maximum benefits achieved from other killer time-saving perks/features.

What matters is gen time in this game. Your whole concept of saving so much time is flawed anyway.

If it worked like that, any chase perk is broken. That let's you down survivors faster, instead of hooking. But your concept here is exactly same. It doesn't hinder survivors, just saved time for killer.

I would love to know how it is flawed, and how you rationalize that, using my logic, every chase perk would be broken.

Let's look at Save the Best for Last with max stacks.
I think that's the best chase perk to check maximum potential value for?

2.7 base wiping animation on hit, reduced to 1.836 seconds with 8 stacks of the perk, or a reduction of 0.864 seconds per hit.

The survivor would have ran an extra 3.456m in that time, which would have taken the standard 4.6m killer another 5.76 seconds to reach their position. My logic states that 5.76 seconds is 4x as valuable for the killer, so 23 seconds of game time saved per max stack hit if running in a straight line.

Let's give an unrealistic scenario where you get 10 max stack Save the Best hits in a game. I say unrealistic, because you don't typically start at max stacks and the obsession will likely reduce your stacks throughout the game. Still, the theoretical maximum value in this situation is then ~230 seconds of overall time saved. On par with the ideal Pop perk scenario, and substantially less (less than half) than remote hook's theoretical maximum.

Maybe I'm crazy, and I'm sure I'm innately biased, but the logic seems to work in my opinion.
If you have another example or a flaw to pick, please go for it.