The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Please don’t ever bring back the remote hooks

CrackedShevaMain
CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 480
edited July 5 in Feedback and Suggestions

Seriously. That ability was completely unbalanced and ridiculous. It negated the entire wiggle mechanic. I’d really prefer not to see it in any future events or game modes. It definitely had to do with why I didn’t play this anniversary nearly as much as the last two years. Made the matches miserable (among other things that made the event annoying to play but that’s for a bigger thread)

Post edited by Rizzo on
«1

Comments

  • CrackedShevaMain
    CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 480

    The killer should not get insta hooks right after downing people. If they wanted that they wouldn’t have put in any wiggle mechanic at all or perks to help with it. Not to mention as others have said how it also negated DS, flash saves and power struggle. It was clearly an OP ability.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477

    Insta hooks only allows you to hook nearby, which is the same hooks you can reach by walking into

    Wiggle mechanics are never meant to allow you to wiggle out, even with perks or anything it is still true, and all that save or whatever things are just lag issue

    I never said anything related to strength of it, just noted that your idea of wiggling is incorrect

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,518

    You are acting like I'm personally against snowmen. Plus I also said to nerf instant hooks slightly.

    Events are now a separate queue so it really doesn't matter if they aren't completely balanced during their run. If you don't like the modifer, don't play it.

  • CrackedShevaMain
    CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 480

    Thats the thing! Events are not modifiers. They put it as a separate mode this year for people who aren’t interested in playing the event but events are still not new game modes. They’re once a year events that mostly everyone looks forward to playing, that comes with a lot of new rewards, skins, and items that people want to get and it comes with a LOT of BP that you only earn by playing the event. Events should not be out of balance on one side or the other. This isn’t like Lights Out or My Little Oni where if you didn’t like it you could not play it and not miss out on stuff. Making a huge once a year event only fun for one side to play is a slap in the face to half your playerbase.

    Youre now saying that if people don’t like playing an unbalanced event then don’t play it and miss out which isn’t fair and should not be the expectation for an event, and especially not the anniversary event. I’m not sure how you don’t see this distinction but that’s okay. I’m done arguing about it.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that if next year the anniversary event gave heavily OP items to the survivor side and killers complained about it ruining the event for them, you (and others saying this same thing) may not have the same attitude. Most people don’t care about something being ruined for others as long as they themselves are still able to benefit from it. But I guess time will tell. Have a good one.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 6,225

    I would be fine with the remote hooks coming back if there were two changes to them.

    One, you couldn't use them immediately on pickup and they had maybe a 6 second delay, so killers don't get as much time saved and save plays (power struggle, pallet stun, DS) are more viable. Though you can still argue that the instahooks pretty much negate sabotage entirely.

    Two, they can't yeet a survivor to a different floor. Throwing someone into Badham basement, Eyrie second floor, or Forgotten Ruins dungeon with 0 time investment or risk got very insane and the value it could give by seeming accident was extreme.

  • VantablackPharaoh91
    VantablackPharaoh91 Member Posts: 580

    IDK, most of the time the remote hook was limited by if I had charges of my event power or not, if I could even do it, if the event power was on cooldown, etc. If you actually used event powers, I think there were enough limits that it was fine.

    Was it OP? Yes. It was a touch too strong and if and when it comes back somehow (and mark my words, it's gonna because BHVR likes to reuse mechanics), it needs adjustments somehow.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,845

    Another suggestion I'd give, if it were to return in perk form, is for the perk to require something like 30-45 seconds in chase to charge so quick chases aren't rewarded so swiftly while being a decent time-saving perk against longer chase times.

  • tyantlmumagjiaonuha
    tyantlmumagjiaonuha Member Posts: 573

    When playing as a survivor, I am dissatisfied with not being able to aim for sabotage, light stun, or party play that combines these, but if you think about it from a killer's perspective, the remote hook function is an option that will greatly improve your quality of life. This is a feature I would like to see re-introduced with some restrictions and conditions.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,452

    It wasn't even that strong. Geez.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    Not to mention as others have said how it also negated DS, flash saves and power struggle. It was clearly an OP ability.

    It didn't do it most of the times. It was possible save against it, but it was buggy sometimes.

    And all that could be fixed with like 0.2 second delay anyway....

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    Just use of some logic. Time wise it was nothing compare to pallet breaking.

    Remote hooking in reality saved like 5-6 seconds per hook? That is far from broken in my opinion.

    Remote pallet breaking is actually effect most killers simply can't get. It basically makes every corner loop a guaranteed hit.

    Remote hooking is probably closest to Agitation.

  • Turretcube
    Turretcube Member Posts: 477
    edited July 7

    Remote hooking is fine, it made killer's choose when to use there invitations instead of just using the Pallet Break for everything, they had to choose. Do i break the pallet with the invitation to secure the down or do i play normally and save the invitation for a remote hook? Remote hooking is much better than the Exposed effect from last year which was pretty much uncounterable, while remote hooking can still be prevented by pallet or blind saves.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,861
    edited July 7

    the strength is that it could be stacked with agitation to send everyone into the basement. that was actually my event build for all killers. it was just run iron grasp+agitation, walk half the map away and then press remote hook at last second to send everyone into the basement. What a strategy….

    so why do survivor instantly complete the generator after finishing the 90 charges? They should need spend 10 second to start-up generator after fully repairing it. that is like close equivalent to carrying people to a hook. If the killer interrupts survivor before they start-up gen, they reduce drastically reduce charges of a gen from a kick. maybe pop goes weasel as a perk no longer affects normal kicks but increases # of charges when a generator is fully repaired. You know.. like killer version of sabotage. This is just an idea. once this happens, the gen is blocked/cannot be regressed.

    Could be good game-delay tactic idea for killer.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477

    If you gonna take graso+agitation, I highly doubt there is a big difference between remote hooks and not

    time saved is not small, but largely outweighed by two perk slot anyway, I doubt it is stronger than simply using it as quick hook

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257
    edited July 7

    What a strategy….

    Kinda funny to say from someone who used it…

    but it's not like you need to use remote hooking to do it. Just agitation and iron grasp is enough on most maps. So this sounds as creating an issue out of nothing. I am pretty sure most of the times it didn't made any difference and you would reach basement anyway.

    Best thing you could do was leave hooked survivor asap to actually get value out of the time you got. If you just camp, then it seems kinda wasted.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 6,225
    edited July 7

    It saved 5-6 seconds per hook on a normal case, but it saved the killer considerably more time than that if it threw the survivor onto another floor or the basement - it would readily put survivors on hooks the killer could not actually reach, Agitation or no, and ones that wasted considerably more time (and risk) for survivors to unhook. Like, if you throw someone on a different floor, that's not a problem on The Game, but on Midwich, Forgotten Ruins, or RPD, suddenly you've added a good 20 seconds onto reaching them.

    It also made basement more accessible from every part of the map because the killer only had to walk towards shack or main building and then pop the remote hook at the last second. Which on its own isn't a problem, unless it's a killer who can effectively camp basement… or you've got a map like Badham or Temple of Purgation and your basement is in the main building.

    I've watched being able to pull someone near preschool and yeet them two stories down into the basement singlehandedly win games. I was inclined to take Tryks at her word here - "um, that's kind of not fair, doncha think?"

    I ran Agi/Iron Grasp when I was trying to do that Tome 1 'sacrifice everyone in the basement' challenge and I think you're drastically overstating their ability to get survivors in the basement from most of the map. That's true on outdoor maps with a perfectly central basement, which is like… Rotten Fields and nothing else.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,861

    smart survivors can avoid going down in the basement where both perks is not enough to make to basement every time. remote hooking often makes strategy near unavoidable. greatly boosts the killer ability to proxy camp the entire game.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    It saved 5-6 seconds per hook on a normal case, but it saved the killer considerably more time than that if it threw the survivor onto another floor

    Not like it was desired outcome...

    But there most likely was some hook I would be able to reach in that time frame.

    I think you're drastically overstating their ability to get survivors in the basement from most of the map.

    But remote hooking doesn't make it that reliable too. You need to be close and hope there is not a hook on side of shack (if basement is there)

    Fact is that's outcome I can reliably get on most maps even without the remote hooking. Why is it suddenly broken, when I can do it anyway?

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    If it was made as perk you would need to use whole build just to get one survivor into basement.

    You used your whole build to get basically old face camping Bubba situation. Which was never that good, it wouldn't be hard for survivors to just do gens when you have 0 slowdown...

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,382
    edited July 7

    I'm pretty sure the reasons for the remote hooks in the event was to serve as a test run for the 2vs8 game mode.

  • Cryopier
    Cryopier Member Posts: 67

    I'm not as concerned with the outcome of how long it takes for the killer.

    I'm more concerned that remote hooking renders flashlight saves, body blocking, flashbangs, and any sort of counterplay irrelevant.

    I want more complexity and options, not less.

  • YuffieGreatestWaifu
    YuffieGreatestWaifu Member Posts: 232

    The remote hook should have been the longest distance hook away from you penalizing you for using it giving survivors ample time to get to the person.

  • YamamuraVideoRentals
    YamamuraVideoRentals Member Posts: 136

    Fixing remote hooks:

    1. Requires 50% wiggle progress from the survivor for it to even be an option.
    2. Has a maximum range of 20 meters.
    3. Never can go to basement hooks.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    I'm more concerned that remote hooking renders flashlight saves, body blocking, flashbangs, and any sort of counterplay irrelevant.

    It is basically counter only against bodyblocking and sabo.

    You can still pallet/flashlight save against it. Problems with DS and Powerstruggle timing (wasn't really reliable) could be easily fixed by small delay.

    If this was supposed to be an issue, then what about Lightborn? There should definetly exist counter perks. So far there is not really ultimate counter against sabo, best we have is agitation, but that is still limited.

  • Cryopier
    Cryopier Member Posts: 67

    You have tons of options against sabotage. You can go to another hook, slug, or wait to hang them. You can run Franklin's Demise to knock their toolboxes out of their hands. You can run the any of the myriad of addons or perks that allow you to blind the killer. You can run Starstruck to discourage getting close to the killer while he's hooking.

    Remote hooking literally says "Oh you are body blocking, sabotaging, attempting a flashlight save, staying in a broken hooked area of the map? Irrelevant. It was dumb. It is dumb. It should never be baseline.

  • Orthane
    Orthane Member Posts: 434

    Remote hooking is fine, it's the remote pallet breaking that's a problem.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477

    That will actually makes wiggling irrelevant, because with this kind of mechanics remote hook allows you to hook a person somewhere you can't reach

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    I’ve yet to hear a single good reason why it was unbalanced or an issue at all.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited July 8

    Now this I agree with. I don’t know why people are so focused on the remote hooking, it’s fine. Remote pallet break however I can definitely see an argument for how busted that was yet no one complains about that. All remote hook did was save a little time, remote break however gave tons of downs that would have never happened in many scenarios with little counter play.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    How does it work against pallet saves / flashlight saves?

    There is a window to do it... Unless the survivor messed up the timing. As I said this could be easily fixed with small delay to prevent any ping related issues.

    I don't think it should be basekit for all killers, but it would be fine as a perk.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    What? That would be huge nerf (use longest distance)

    Effect on wiggling is exactly same like it was now.

    This would get it closer to PH's cage. I can either hook you myself in secured area or do it faster but I risk you getting directly next to another survivor.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477

    You can still hook nearby with normal hooks, and now you have the choice to circumvent wiggling mechanics and hook in a place somewhere you can't reach

    It's better

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 998

    Yup, glad the event is over and remote hook is gone - that was miserable.

    People say 'it's not bad, it's just a few seconds saved' etc, etc; but those same people neglect that killer time is 4x more valuable than survivor time. This was a point that was brought up in reverse quite often when it came to boons, DS, and more survivor time-waste perks. So saving 5 seconds with a remote hook is equivalent to saving up to 20 seconds of overall game time, and saving 10 seconds (possible with travel time saved on remote hook) is equivalent to saving up to 40 seconds of game time.

    If you think I'm exaggerating, look at this way.

    When you hook someone, they are indisposed and doing nothing while you can do whatever it is you want to do. One survivor also has to go for the save, meaning they aren't doing any objectives either. If you get in a chase immediately after (very possible with remote hook), there's a third survivor who also is not doing antyhing. The 4th survivor may still do objectives, but, especially in solo queue, there's a better chance they're also attempting the rescue or the chaser is bringing you to them so they're also unable to do generators.

    That remote hook accelerates the above process and so, while it might save you 5-10 seconds of your individual time, it will also immediately convert into pressure that gets spread to all 4 survivors and ends up saving you 20-40 seconds of overall game/objective time PER hook.

    Putting that into perspective, a single pain resonance saves you 15 seconds of gen time. Even better, a Pop Goes the Weasel proc on a 99% gen saves you ~23 seconds of gen time. Depending on how much time that remote hook saved you, it was basically giving you a free pain, a max value pop, or even both of those perks worth of time every single time you used it.

    That doesn't even include the benefits it had in denying rescues.
    It was crazy overpowered, and I hope never to see it again.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    You can just look at it as opposite of slowdown perk.

    If 5-6 seconds of remote unhooking is so busted, why it's not true for grim embrace? You halt progress for all survivors that could work on gens.

    Information perks save you time in searching for survivors.

    Chase perks save you time on downing/hitting survivors.

    Those usually get way above time amount of remote unhooking.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    Just because I can't reach it, doesn't make it better.

    The location can and probably will be worse for me, because there is high chance of a survivor in that area.

    Remote hooking on nearest hook gives me way more control over the outcome.

  • Skitten56
    Skitten56 Member Posts: 383

    You have to be very naive to think that. It saved tons of time, not having a killer spend 10-20 seconds carrying a survivor to a hook is huge. Remote Hooking also denied pretty much any form of altruism related to hooking or saves. Also if you caught 2 survivors close to each other and downed one quick, you could just immediately chase the other one after spending 3 seconds to remote hook. Not to mention you could easily remote hook into basement if you knew what you were doing.

    They were absolutely strong and to say otherwise is to turn a blind eye.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 998
    edited July 8

    Remote hook and Grim Embrace have some core differences that differentiate themselves from each other. The list of differences are below (listed in order of game impact):

    1. Remote Hook eliminates the 5-10 second downtime every survivor receives during the pick-up > travel > hook > travel period before each hook
      1. In contrast Grim Embrace retains that pre-hook sequence and only blocks generators after the hook occurs and everyone starts needing to do those hooked/chase/rescue/misc actions mentioned previously anyway
    2. Remote hook activates on every hook, regardless of circumstances
      1. Grim Embrace activates once per unique hook
    3. Remote hook prevents hook saves entirely
      1. Grim embrace's effect is subjected to potential hook saves that can postpone its effects

    Although I listed 3 core differences that separates Remote Hooking from Grim Embrace, difference #1 is the one that really matters here.

    Remote hook outright permanently removes the pre-hook time for all survivors on the map. Even the hooked survivor is affected by this because the sooner they are hooked, the less time they have on the game while on the hook (and the less opportunity they have to use their carry-related perks like Boil Over).

    In contrast, everyone retains that pre-hook downtime against Grim Embrace, and its gen blocking effect occurs after the hook when everyone can start doing the standard hooked/chase/rescue/misc actions to reset game state. The gen blocking is therefore only really potentially affecting one person (the misc survivor, who is hopefully repairing), and not anyone else. At best it will stop a survivor from completing a generator momentarily, but that's a temporary stall instead of a time waste because that generator is not regressing, and that survivor has another role they can play when it activates anyway (rescue/chase/misc).

    That critical difference in #1 is then compounded by #2, since, in this event, you could achieve this Remote Unhook pre-hook time elimination benefit up to 11 times in a match.

    Side Note:

    I also just realized that survivor carry time can extend up to 16 seconds if the survivor is constantly wiggling before they break out of the killer's grasp. So the maximum amount of time this perk can save is actually up to 16 seconds of the killer's individual time, or 64 seconds (16 * 4) of the survivor's total time.

    It was therefore technically possible, especially against sabo users, that remote hooking in this event could save up to 512 seconds (8.5 minutes) worth of the survivor's collective game time for the killer in a game. That number was obtained by multiplying the above 64 seconds by 8, which is the total number of hooks you could get before killing anyone. That said, while possible, this is an unrealistic and extreme scenario.

    Still, even if we assume Remote Hook saves 5-10 seconds on average per hook, that was still up to 20-40 seconds of game time saved per hook. Multiply it by 8 to represent the number of hooks you could theoretically have before killing someone, and this perk still has a maximum potential value of 160 - 320 seconds of collective survivor time saved in any one game.

    Those numbers are ridiculously high, especially when you compare it to any other perk (including Grim Embrace).

    Keep in mind, this side note still ignores the benefit of ignoring hooks saves.
    It was just so unbelievably busted.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257

    Remote hook prevents hook saves entirely

    That's not true. You can say it makes pallet saves more difficult, because you can't screw up the timing, but it definitely was possible.

    can save is actually up to 16 seconds of the killer's individual time, or 64 seconds (16 * 4) of the survivor's total time.

    If you want to use maximum time, then we can also say all survivors got downed next to a hook, which would be around 4 seconds of survivor's total time...

    So that's not really how it works in reality. In most maps I can reach hook around 5-6 seconds. Unless I decide to go on trip for better hook, but at that moment I have to walk even with remote unhooking to get it reliably.

    especially against sabo users,

    That's also not really true, because you usually have to drop survivor against Sabo squads and slug them... You won't let them wiggle of if possible.

    Slugging saves actually more time for killer than remote hooking. You don't need any animation, so is slugging broken?

    And your whole math is incorrect, simply because you calculate with 4 survivors. Well, just from that it's flawed, because you are hooking one survivor, his time is not really valid at that point.

    What matters is gen time in this game. Your whole concept of saving so much time is flawed anyway.

    If it worked like that, any chase perk is broken. That let's you down survivors faster, instead of hooking. But your concept here is exactly same. It doesn't hinder survivors, just saved time for killer.

    But in reality it doesn't stop survivors from doing their objective, it doesn't give you additional time on already used time unlike gen regression perks.

    What is stronger, 4 chase perks (mix with information), where all those perks focus is save your time, or 4 slowdown perks where whole focus is to hinder survivors progress?

    Your theory simply doesn't work in reality.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 998
    edited July 8

    @VomitMommy

    That's not true. You can say it makes pallet saves more difficult, because you can't screw up the timing, but it definitely was possible.

    From what I understand, the moment you finish the animation to hoist someone up on your shoulder is the moment you are vulnerable to a save, but also it is the moment you can press the remote hook button. So if the killer times it correctly, the animation starts, and the hook goes through. In contrast, if they button mash or delay, then it's possible for a save window to eek out before the button press.

    In that case, I do not think it is possible to save unless the killer messes up; but being reliant on your opponent messing up for 'counter-play' is a caveat you can extend to literally every argument in DBD which is why I excluded it.

    If you want to use maximum time, then we can also say all survivors got downed next to a hook, which would be around 4 seconds of survivor's total time...

    You're right, it can theoretically do absolutely nothing in some games, just like every other feature in the game.

    The reason I brought up theoretical maximums is because most features, like perks, are hard capped as to the value they can deliver to a specified amount. Since every game is variable, these maximums are useful for gauging relative power to other similar time-saving features in the game. In fact, let's do that using a perk we already mentioned earlier: Pop Goes The Weasel.

    Theoretical minimum? You don't hook, it does nothing.

    Theoretical maximum? 11 hooks + gen kicks at 99.99% gen progress per gen is (11 * 0.2 * [90*.9999]) or ~198 seconds saved per match.

    Compare that to the theoretical maximum of the remote hooks which were previously calculated at 512 seconds, over twice the value of Pop's ideal use-case, and the relative strength of the ability to remote hook should be apparent. For simplicity I didn't even include the time remote hooking saves when walking back from a hook to start exerting pressure, which has its own value (and is especially relevant on maps on Swamp, when you're forced to hook at the edge).

    Slugging saves actually more time for killer than remote hooking. You don't need any animation, so is slugging broken?

    Slugging is a unique case in that it takes double the time for someone to bleed out than if they were on a hook, does not count at all towards the time it takes to reduce their hook states (meaning unless the killer is fully bleeding them out or snowballs, they don't benefit from the down at all), and the user can recover/move on their own accord, minimizing the time burden on others to pick them up.

    The reason it isn't overpowered is because of the above caveats. Slugging is literally just a gamble by the killer where they risk their last x time chasing to exert more pressure quickly on survivors in an attempt to overpower them. If the gamble fails, they lose everything they obtained prior.

    Meanwhile, remote hooking allows the killer to exert that pressure as if they slugged, but without the risk to their prior progress since they get the hook anyway. Win/win for the killer with literally no downside in what's usually a risky move.

    And your whole math is incorrect, simply because you calculate with 4 survivors. Well, just from that it's flawed, because you are hooking one survivor, his time is not really valid at that point.

    The person being picked up, carried, and hooked, is still losing meaningful time though.

    Whatever time the survivor had in being carried is removed from the game, which means they are on the hook sooner, their hook progresses faster, and their death will come sooner.

    Example:
    In a normal scenario:

    1. Killer downs survivor A at time 0:00
    2. Killer takes 10 seconds to travel and hook survivor A, hooking them at time 0:10.
    3. Survivor A then has 60 seconds before reaching phase 2 at time 1:10

    With remote hooking:

    1. Killer downs survivor A at time 0:00
    2. Killer takes 0 seconds to travel and hook survivor A, hooking them at 0:00
    3. Survivor A then has 60 seconds before reaching phase 2 at time 1:00

    By losing the downtime during hooking, the hooked survivor might not be robbed of objective time like the other 3 survivors are, but they are still robbed of the extra amount of time they otherwise should have had before reaching another hook stage.

    That time has value too, which is why I included it in the calculations.
    Even if you ignore that value out of convenience, that's still 5-10 seconds robbed from each of the other 3 survivors, for a total of 15-30 seconds (depending if you use 5 or 10 sec hook time as an average) of survivor time lost per remote hook. With 8 remote hooks before anyone dies, the theoretical maximum value is 120 - 240 seconds over the course of a game.

    Notice I'm getting more and more favorable in my calculations for the benefit of the killer.
    I'm doing that to showcase that the numbers are so absurd that I have room to be as lenient as you want me to be, and the value from remote hooking is still going to be absurd and exceed the max value you could get from most of any other killer perk/feature by far.

    In reality I could be including the time value of remote hook to 11 hooks (the max before the game ends), the return travel time when coming back from a hook for M1 killers, and especially the value of ignoring/reducing the chance of saves. Including all of that would be fair game for comparison purposes with the maximum benefits achieved from other killer time-saving perks/features.

    What matters is gen time in this game. Your whole concept of saving so much time is flawed anyway.

    If it worked like that, any chase perk is broken. That let's you down survivors faster, instead of hooking. But your concept here is exactly same. It doesn't hinder survivors, just saved time for killer.

    I would love to know how it is flawed, and how you rationalize that, using my logic, every chase perk would be broken.

    Let's look at Save the Best for Last with max stacks.
    I think that's the best chase perk to check maximum potential value for?

    2.7 base wiping animation on hit, reduced to 1.836 seconds with 8 stacks of the perk, or a reduction of 0.864 seconds per hit.

    The survivor would have ran an extra 3.456m in that time, which would have taken the standard 4.6m killer another 5.76 seconds to reach their position. My logic states that 5.76 seconds is 4x as valuable for the killer, so 23 seconds of game time saved per max stack hit if running in a straight line.

    Let's give an unrealistic scenario where you get 10 max stack Save the Best hits in a game. I say unrealistic, because you don't typically start at max stacks and the obsession will likely reduce your stacks throughout the game. Still, the theoretical maximum value in this situation is then ~230 seconds of overall time saved. On par with the ideal Pop perk scenario, and substantially less (less than half) than remote hook's theoretical maximum.

    Maybe I'm crazy, and I'm sure I'm innately biased, but the logic seems to work in my opinion.
    If you have another example or a flaw to pick, please go for it.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,861

    the 10-20 second is terrible design for killer. the killer are already in time crunch to hook faster opponent does generators. Adding game-delay for them to complete action is one pivoting reasons for hook vs gen balance being so bad.

    The only balance comment i have for how mechanic worked in the event is that i don't think you should be able to walk for 14+ seconds, half across the map then press remote hook button to hook people in the basement. If I was to make a change for it, i'd make it that killer pick up the survivor and then is paused for like 0.75 second extra then immediately after perform remote hook animation. Basically you can't walk with it. only use it immediately.

    ===================

    If you ask me, i think there is some dev on dev team that really really HATES slugging in DBD. like demises slugging. This remote hook feature is possible solution to removing slugging in dbd. If this mechanic was put into base-kit dbd. it would need some changes to system.

    Survivors obviously receive base-kit unbreakable, unlimited get ups, recovery time would be 45 seconds similar to old PTB.

    Killer would receive remote hook function. they no longer carry survivors to hooks. they simply pick survivor up, 0.75 second of pause is given to do flashlight save/pallet save and then killer immediately hooks the survivor.

    It would remove a lot of nuance between leaving survivors on the floor and hooking, like the game is less strategic and simplified but it does remove survivors whining about slugging. A lot of lot players have said that they do not like the game being simplified as Blight's tech being removed as removes skill expression from the game but I am indifferent those type of changes.