Hag is still unpopular because she has terrible chase
Hag is currently the least popular killer in the game (similar to pre-rework). Her rework didn't address her main issue, which is she is purely setup and has no chase. People dislike playing setup killers in general. Hag has no chase because she is 110% and takes too long to set up traps. Chasing with her is basically set up trap, survivor runs to next loop, and repeat. She mainly gets hit from setup playstyle rather than chasing. My suggestion is to make her 115% and reduce trap setting time. Regardless of how she gets reworked, she needs better chase.
https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer?sort=pick&shown=pick&start_days=28&compact=true
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waterlog shoe hag.
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Honestly, she can be 115% without any problem if waterlog bodyblock hag is allowed
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But according to those numbers her kill rate is right where the devs want it.
Hag isn't a chase killer. Asking for her to be 115 just sounds like a want for less reliance on building a web of traps and using them to anti-loop…basically a Trapper clone.
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no the difference is being forced to use traps vs situational using traps when it makes sense to use traps. Hag's power is not always useful. a 4.4 m/s killer need have a power that is always useful in every situation and entirely carries the killer's gameplay. hag struggles to do that.
Mint rag is only add-on for hag that justify her 4.4 m/s existence and even then, add-on has some flaws.
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Suffers from the same problem I described:
- you set trap
- survivor runs to next loop immediately
- repeat
Waterlogged Shoe Hag is also just a worse Clown.
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A rework doesn't necessarily have to be a buff. Also, the 60% kill rate is somewhat inflated because it's from the few Hag mains playing her rather than the average player.
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did you consider playing it like trapper where you set traps at loops and m1? when the survivor goes around loop, the trap triggers and you hit them due to speed difference? that is my guess for how they want you to play chase hag.
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Not really, it's more to help if survivors know how to trigger her traps safely. That's when you can feel 110%.
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Yes. Getting hits with Clown is already very close, and Clown has higher speed boost and higher slow. Obviously Hag who has lower speed (compared to yellow bottle) and lower slow will perform much worse.
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Completely agree, in my post I've said almost the same.
Hag is killer from another dbd era, I don't think she fits in current game at all. Besides 4,6, I believe, she needs a lot of changes to make her more chase oriented.
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Hag is unpopular because her playstyle is not conventionally fun.
There's nothing wrong with it. There should be a killer appealing to everyone, not that every killer should be appeal to everyone.
She is a pretty fun and decently strong killer if you understand how to use her and her area denial web-setting gameplay appeals to you. She doesn't need strong chase because that's not how she wins games.
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Not 100% related to the topic, but can we please rework Grandma's Heart? Right now it's the only add-on that was not updated with Undetectable, as well as it being next to useless.
My rework idea:
• After teleporting to a tripped trap, your lunge is increased by 40% for 3 seconds.
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Hag has been one of my mains for years, and I still think she needs chase power. For experienced Hag players, large maps are a major issue due to the map being too big to effectively create a web. The only ways to fix this are to give her many more traps or chase power, so she can chase properly on large maps.
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more traps would be nice. having more chase power to allow her to chase people the normal way is a ridiculous idea.
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she has chase power. it is same power that knight has. You drop guard at loop, the survivor runs away. You draw a hag trap at a loop, the survivor run away. They run to corner of the map, you draw a trap in the loop, If they don't push into the trap → hit, if they trigger the trap →hit.
It is just bad and inefficient. Hag as chase killer is worse artist and worse knight and both of those killers are 4.6 m/s.
Waterlogged shoe hag is like a better m1 freddy. worse traps, no tp but has better movement speed.
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she has chase power.
I say she has no chase because it's so bad for chase that's it's effectively no chase power.
It is just bad and inefficient. Hag as chase killer is worse artist and worse knight and both of those killers are 4.6 m/s.
Agreed.
Waterlogged shoe hag is like a better m1 freddy. worse traps, no tp but has better movement speed.
Yep, but the extra 2.5% ms is practically negligible. It's worth mentioning that Waterlogged Shoe is much worse than Freddy since Hag can only place traps where she is standing. This is extremely bad because she has to be standing far away from the pallet to get enough slow down duration to hit before the survivor reaches the pallet. The problem is that survivors will be standing at the pallet if she does this, so they can just pre-drop or run away.
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Not really. Trapper can somewhat chase people, but he's still one of the worst killers in the game.
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trapper chasing people normally by placing a trap in every loop is the most lame and boring (and also rather inefficient) gameplay known to dbd player.
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which is why you pre-set traps like your playing trapper. i'd honestly just buff her traps to give exposed for 30 seconds if they want to make this actual build. Of course this makes trapper look terrible but whatever.
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This might be an unpopular opinion but Hag is fine.
Hag is not meant to be a high octane chase Killer, nor are they meant to be S-tier either. Hag is relatively fine, they do have strengths and weaknesses but if you actually know how to play Hag you can come out on top against most teams youll play against.
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I like Hag the way she is. She's one of the rare killers who doesn't play exactly like the standard formula with a slightly different gimmick and I'd be sad to lose that.
Not that I'd oppose faster setting time, but making her a 115 would be pretty oppressive given her level of map control. I only find problems playing her against full SWF, because then they start calling out and dismantling your traps and you can't make plays.
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We don't need to make the developers pander to majority of the community/players with unoriginal taste even more than they already do
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Only buffing her to 115 would make minimal difference since she is still chasing as a m1 killer. You should remember that Trapper is already 115 and even faster with the speed boost.
Large maps are a major issue. Play on Badham or Borgo and you will immediately understand.
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Not really. It would still be worse than Trapper since stepping on a Trapper trap is an instant down (injury at minimum) whereas Hag still needs to chase them for the hit. Trapper also gets speed boost from setting traps.
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Giving Hag 115 and faster Trap setting speed won't turn her into a high octane chase killer. Trapper is already 115 (faster with the speed boost) and has similar trap setting times with addons, and he is one of the worst killers in the game and by no means a "high octane chase killer".
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With her low pick rate, I don't think she is appealing to anyone. There are extremely few people that exclusively main Hag. Hag mains still play Hag less than 50% of the time, which shows that even Hag mains get bored of her.
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I don't know where you're getting this info from but even then, the solution is to just buff her, not in a way that changes her identity unnecessarily
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I checked for Hag main streamers and all of them have either quit, moved on to killer variety or became a variety gamer.
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in practice, most trapper set traps to corral survivors into a trap. it is very rare that trapper places traps to get downs from half across the map. This play-style. Honing stone is add-on that puts survivor into dying state from half across the map but this is not viable at all vs swf because…. they'll just save each other. Even in soloq is smart enough to save survivors in traps. it is also gimmicky and very very random. I am sure there is some big brain casual trapper that runs honing stone and place traps in the middle of nowhere to get random downs but like…. most trapper that i play against put traps on loops.
I'd say exposed on hag would in practice be a better trapper. you don't need pick up traps. they auto-refresh and you have… more of them? assuming you hit them with m1…. it is same thing.
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I think hag is really interesting and unique, one of the few killers in the game that can be said about.
Unfortunately, as others have said, people don't want to play the way she's designed to play. It's meant to be a longer, slower game, all in all, with more thought and effort in the early game, and more action in the later game stages. The current player base wants the exact opposite of that. Killer mains (a generalization, not meant as literally all killer mains) want to destroy survivors as quickly as possible with as little thought or effort as possible. They want the game to play itself for the most part, and afford them a devastating win in the process. It's why knight was so popular for a while. Without complete map control and speed, killers are bored and angry. Like kids who can't watch movies with a plot because their brain is trained for the instant gratification of tik-toks and youtube shorts.
(Yes, there's some satirical and cynical stuff going on in this post)0 -
Hag's power is way better than Trapper's, though. It's much harder to avoid in chase, it's harder to see, she always has it on hand and doesn't have to collect them, she has more of them, there's no RNG involved, she can use it for map mobility as well as hits and instantly return to a hook or gen.
The only things Trapper has over Hag, besides being a 115, is that he can get a down on a healthy survivor if they walk into his traps while he's close, and if they're not close (which is an issue he and Hag both share), they'll lose a health state. In her net, though, Hag is much deadlier than Trapper and making her a 115 would only amplify that.
I don't think it's right to say she chases as an M1 killer because Hag has zoning and loop denial. She puts down a trap, you have to leave. Trapper can do this too, but he can only carry two traps at a time; Hag can keep doing it even when she's run out of traps. And because of her anti-loop, holding W away from her net, out in the open, is often the survivor's best bet - but buffing her to 115 removes that. She's meant to catch up to you by you running into another one of her traps. If she can chase normally and turn every relevant tile into a nope zone, she'd be pretty busted.
Map size is a problem for every setup killer, it's just how they work. They're meant to give up part of the map and focus on a smaller area.
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Hag is really strong killer. She doesn't need any buffs to her chase, she is great in different situation. It's not chase oriented killer.
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I just want an add-on rework for her.
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her iri addon which allows her to teleport to traps should be basekit while still maintaining the ability to teleport to traps. This effectively solves 2 of her problems with one stone
-encourages hag to spread traps out
-encourages hag to chase
-nulls the need for a hit and run
obviously, add a sound cue and a cooldown before hags can teleport to their traps again. But would be a good implementation tbh.
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I think this is probably the most elegant solution. And 100% doable using existing code. Strange that this hasn't been done already, honestly.
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Then giving her 5% speed barely changes that, 115% speed is nice but it doesn't really matter if she has no power
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I'm comparing trapping in a loop with Hag and Trapper not across the map. If a survivor steps on a Trapper trap in a loop, it's an instant down because Trapper just walks to them and picks them up. If a survivor steps on a Hag trap, Hag still has to chase them as a M1 killer to down them. Trapper traps are clearly better.
I'd say exposed on hag would in practice be a better trapper. you don't need pick up traps. they auto-refresh and you have… more of them? assuming you hit them with m1…. it is same thing.
I think if you're going with the exposed option, comparing them to Myers and Ghost Face is also applicable. Both of these killers can just stare at the survivor to get exposed and have other benefits, e.g. Undetectable and longer lunge. Exposed Hag is clearly worse since her only benefit over them is an extra 2.5% ms. Skull Mechant is also arguably relevant since her Drones are similar to traps, and SM is obviously much better.
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And because of her anti-loop, holding W away from her net, out in the open, is often the survivor's best bet - but buffing her to 115 removes that. She's meant to catch up to you by you running into another one of her traps. If she can chase normally and turn every relevant tile into a nope zone, she'd be pretty busted.
You are drastically overrating the benefit of 115. 110 and 115 only makes a difference when running a loop in some rare instances, and it makes virtually no difference when running in the open (away from a loop). When running across the entire map, the difference between 110 and 115 was less than 1 second. See
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She's not supposed to be good at chase. That's her main weakness.
I'd have no problem with making trap setting a little bit faster, but she should not ever be 115.
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i can agree with this. if not 4.4 m/s, add-on being base-kit would be good. the issue is that certain hag's like to spam teleport on their mousewheel. mint rag disables that play-style and forces you to play strategic but hag in general is strategic killer. you have to calculate a lot of positions.
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I think people don't like her because she's literally a rotting husk. Poor Hag. Modern beauty standards haven't been kind to her.
#CorpseIsBeautiful
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It's not that she will be good with 115, just less terrible
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Nemesis, Onryo, Spirit, and Plague 🤔
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2 of them aint rotting though and 1 requires a costume to rot while plague is only half rotten. Modern beauty standards shoot down too many to often!
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Honestly, hag is best kind of rotting husk because she is almost not gross at this much of rots, kinda seems like a charcoal doll or something
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