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Deja Vu - Small nerf
The devs said that until they come up with a solution for 3-gen game-hostage hour-long matches, they would be buffing Deja Vu. (Honestly, it was Potential Energy that needed the buff, since that perk actually helps take energy from non 3-gen clusters and dump it on 3-gen clusters; seeing the probelm gens with Deja Vu was not going to help much against a killer who never left those gens.)
Anyway, with the soultion implemented, disable Deja Vu's speed boost when there is only 1 gen remaining.
Deja Vu lets you see the tightest cluster of gens. The gen speed helps you break those clusters up. However, once there is only 1 remaining gen, you can no longer change their location and there are no more possible cluster combinations. It is too late to break them up. At that point, the speed boost only serves to make survivors who are winning win more.
Comments
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Deja Vu is fine beginner perk for survivors that encourage to break 3 gen from killer (even now on some killers thats a problem). Toolboxes is real problem why gens gone to fast and maybe fast track.
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Deja Vu doesn't really need a nerf in any capacity. 6% Gen Speed bonus is not all that significant at all.
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I don't think it needs a nerf, it's most noob friendly gen rushing perk...
But I also wouldn't underestimated value of the perk. There's a reason why it's so highly picked in all skill level groups.
You save time by not looking for gens too, which can be especially good on indoor maps. It can be difficult to locate best 3-gen there to break it early.
That gen speed is also increasing on value against killers with lot of gen regression perks.
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You would still see the gens throughout the whole match. I did not suggest that they change the aura reading effect of this perk.
The most likely situation that the Entity would be blocking a gen from further regression from the killer's break action would be when there is only 1 gen remaining. Even if the killer has a lot of gen regression perks, they can only do so much damage thanks to the new regression limit. The repair speed is not necessary.
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Personally I think it's too much of a snowball perk, especially with multiple survivors running it.
Most who say 'only 6%' forget at the last 3 gens, NO MATTER THE DISTANCE, will benefit from each survivor running it on the same gen. Even just 2 survivors gives 12% gen speed on the last gen, which can be across the map from where you're initially pressuring.
There's no problem returning it to it's 60 second timer at match start and post-generator completion to me. It's still a good perk for information and a boost to generator speeds that way, especially now that there's a regression limit.
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I like it, reward survivors for using deja vu with better gen spreads instead of rewarding them after they get a good gen spread with continued gen speed and a good gen spread. It can easily shift matches so having more speed after you already set yourself up for success is overkill for a single perk.
But funny idea just to tack onto it but I won't bother to balance it, what if potential energy could get some energy off completed gens
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I'd question the necessity of a nerf like this, personally.
I know the devs said that the buff would be a temporary measure, but having sat with it for a long while now, I honestly think it could very easily be kept. It's not causing any problems, and it's helping players out with preventing 3-gens pretty nicely.
If they did need to nerf it for some reason, this would be a good way of doing it, but I don't think that need is there at the moment.
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It's helping players out with preventing 3-gens pretty nicely.
This change would not affect that.
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Deja Vu is fine. It saves ~5 seconds per gen and its main use is preventing 3 gens. 3 genning might not be a huge issue anymore, but getting into a situation where you accidentally 3 gen yourself is really bad, Deja Vu prevents that. It doesn't need any changes imo.
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The survivors can still prevent 3 gens with the proposed change. It shaves off ~5 seconds per survivor who equips it. It should not shave time off the final gens. It's too late to change the locations of the last 3 gens. It is no longer possible to "break up 3 gens."
Therefore, the survivors should no longer get a speed boost that helps them "break up 3 gens;" especially if it means they get the speed boost even though they have an amazing gen spread by the time there's only 1 gen left.
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Yeah, but there's also no problem or reason to implement this change either, that's what the full sentence there was about.
Genuinely, at this stage, why bother changing Deja Vu? It's healthy and non-problematic in its current state, so there's really no cause to tinker with it.
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Okay, so from now on, whenever the devs say "temporary" or "band-aid" it means permanent until very problematic. Got it. 👍️
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A better way to interpret it is that temporary measures can become permanent if they're good additions to the game that don't cause any problems.
Also, not "very" problematic. Problematic at all.
Also also, the devs still might change it, I'm saying it doesn't need to be changed. I'm not a dev.
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Also also, the devs still might change it, I'm saying it doesn't need to be changed. I'm not a dev.
I see now. Seems I read too much into what you were saying.
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Your change is unnecessary, Deja Vu is not an issue and doesn't need any changes. 3-genning may not be as bad as it was before, but stilling getting yourself into one is quite annoying, especially if the killer is high mobility, or good at pressuring generators, including slowdowns perks if they have them.
6% is very small, it saves like 4-5 seconds at most, and is one of the most balanced perks, it's fine where it is.
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3-genning may not be as bad as it was before, but stilling getting yourself into one is quite annoying, especially if the killer is high mobility, or good at pressuring generators, including slowdowns perks if they have them.
Deja Vu helps you see the problems gens. It does not prevent 3-gen scenarios against killers and situations like you mentioned; that's Potential Energy's job.
You are saying two things that cannot both be true. Either 4-5 seconds is very big and helps survivors prevent and deal with 3-genning, or 4-5 seconds is very small. Which is it?
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It's 4-5 seconds multiplied by every survivor possibly having it. Also think of every time a killer interrupted right before you finished a gen. Those seconds matter a great deal.
I have no idea why people are so opposed to this small, common sense nerf. It's a good idea.
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It should simply have the buff for anti-3gen reverted. Arguably they could have the repair speed boost be timed, and keep the aura reveal as permanent as a partial nerf instead.
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Genuine question: Why? What's the problem trying to be solved here?
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The buff was explicitly made because 3 genning became a problem (due to a bunch of issues combined), and once a solution would be found (regression limit), it was planned to be reverted. It is better to tear off the bandaid now, rather than like the DS change where it became core to the game's ability to function properly at 5s. We still haven't properly healed (because no good anti-tunnel exists atm, although the Babysitter buff seems like an honest effort).
The original patch note mentioning the change -
There were also forum posts by devs around that time frame (that might have been on the 7.0 PTB), but it is too difficult and annoying to find dev posts for me to seek them out (if they even still exist since the PTB posts are deleted/archived nowhere I can find them).
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Right, but let's imagine for a moment that the devs decide they're not changing Deja Vu anymore. Is there any problem that arises because of this hypothetical decision?
It's not actually integral to the game's function like Decisive Strike, since it doesn't actually help against intentional 3-genning and also the basekit mechanic designed to fix that was a lot more effective than the anti-tunnel mechanic. The only problem that could exist, therefore, is if it's too strong as-is after the 3-gen mechanic was integrated.
Would you say that it is too strong? If so, how?
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Diminished Player/Dev Trust from not keeping to their word. To be fair that is pretty bad now from what I see, so it wouldn't change it meaningfully, but it would just add another layer of mistrust to be peeled back. Mechanically I honestly think it is fine as is, but it is small enough I think it also is a great token nerf to allow for fixing a greater flaw alongside it (or in the future). The playerbase is often too tribal, and a nerf/buff to one side is considered unfair, without a corresponding nerf/buff for the opposite side. Since this was considered a buff to counter 3-gens, reverting the buff to justify the Regression limit fits in the childish 'I got mine' mentality.
In specific, I weigh the gen speeds against the old 80s timer (which I had no problem winning as Killer with). I don't think any buff to gen speeds that fails to reach the equivalent timer is too powerful. Old Deja Vu saved at max, 3s from 80s (60s of 5% faster, or 63 gen seconds in 60 real time seconds, for a total of 77 real time seconds for 1 gen). That means new Deja Vu has to save more than 13 gen seconds for me to think it is too powerful. That would require a ~17% boost for a normal 90s gen to even match the 'real' gen speed with old Deja Vu taking 77 real time seconds.
I just think it is a safe 'sacrificial lamb' counter-balance nerf target.
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Hmm, I think that's a fair enough reasoning.
I think a similar effect would be achieved from the devs just confirming outright that they think the perk is fine and intend to keep it as it is, but you're right about that element being something the devs need to consider, sadly.
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Lack of accountability by just leaving it unchanged with no word. It gives off the impression that devs will say A and forget about A down the road.
I imagine it's because not much people are complaining about it too
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I don't think it needs to be nerfed, it's a good perk but nothing too powerful.
I wouldn't be against this change though as I agree that at 1 gen left it's unnecessary.
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