Please don’t ever bring back the remote hooks

Bamboozle, Spirit Fury + Enduring, Blood favor, coupe, any insta down perk.
Those perks allow me to completely skip one stage of looping. They often give me hit I wouldn't get otherwise.

Yes, that's why everything you listed is incredibly strong?

Bamboozle is literally meta on a wide variety of killers (Wraith, Bubba, Myers, Lich, etc.)
Spirit Fury + Enduring is also up there in popularity, has been meta, and is still meta for some killers (Legion, M1 killers in general).
Blood favor is so strong it has to be a hex, which lowers its consistency.
Coupe's effect is innately strong as well, which is why it's tied to two restrictions (survivor gen pops + cannot control which lunge to use it on).

So the first two are powerful and are literally meta for some killers, the other two are powerful but have restrictions that put their usefulness outside of the killer's control. I guarantee if you removed the restrictions of Blood Favor and Coupe to improve their consistency and reliability to be on the level of Remote Hooking, they'd immediately surge to be meta due to the time they save.

In my mind, this kind of just proves my point in how valuable saving/eliminating time is for the killer, which is exactly what I'm arguing is the problem with remote hooking.

I would say average chase for M1 killers would be around 50 seconds unless the survivor is at least decent and have good setup. So if I down a survivor after unhooking with Make your choice? I can do that under 10 seconds with Wraith.

So that would be 40 seconds x 4 = 160 seconds save. Yay, stonks. Best perk in the game. Well, not really.

This is a fun example actually.

I can't argue average chase time, so I'll take the 50 sec average chase time you proposed at face value and go with that. It sounds reasonable, I think? Any debate would devolve to anecdotal experience and he-said, she-said arguments anyway.

In that case though, yeah, if you get the proc, it is saving you up to 160 seconds of total game time in that ideal scenario using my logic. But isn't that reflected in the game state?

I don't know how that isn't strong actually.
You have the unhooked survivor injured, running far away for dear life for heals.
You have the exposed survivor instantly down and dying sooner than they otherwise would.
You have one person who now needs to rescue.
You have the last survivor either repairing or healing the first guy so they get downed by a stealth killer immediately after again.

No one's able to do much, or anything productive in that time for that moment - that's an incredibly strong snowball.
Imagine if you got that every hook? Isn't that just gg?

But that's the issue, it's not reliable to expect to get it every hook is it?
Most killers have trouble using it even once due since not many are stealth and survivors hear them coming, because chase time can be so long (50 sec on average, right?) that it times out the exposed effect, and survivors can body block anyway.
The most agile killer's are either insta-downers (Billy) and don't need it, or whose power hits don't proc exposed anymore (Nurse/Blight).

Once again, I'd argue the time saved and effect itself of these exposed perks are extraordinarily good.
It's just these amazing time saves are plagued by inconsistencies to balance them. I'd also argue that's why you don't see them as much - not because the time they save is irrelevant - but because they're just so inconsistent.

In contrast, barring few exceptions, gen regression perks are inferior with time saves, but give guaranteed value. Hook someone? Pain + Pop is yours, and you either get to control where it goes, or it goes to the most repaired gen to delay it, which is usually what you want anyway.

—

I'm still convinced the time saved by remote hooking is blatantly OP, but after this discussion, I'm also convinced that a portion of my issue with it is how reliable and consistent it was in delivering that enormous value. Because you're right, in hindsight I do think some of these chase perks can give similar raw values to Remote Hooking, but I also don't have a problem with them because these perks have counter-play and are inconsistent in delivering that value. Unlike Remote Hooking, which has neither to unbearable degrees.

Try to apply this for information perks. How valuable is I managed to get into a chase with survivor, I normally wouldn't be able to find? That's definetly way more than 6 seconds…

I actually do think information perks are very valuable for this reason, and I have a hunch I'm not alone given the current arguments against Distortion + Weave Attunement + Lethal Pursuer + auras in general on chase killers.

Not a bad idea, I think out of anyone Freddy deserves it the most.

For my own benefit and understanding I need to re-orient through a quick summarization of past events.

1. I originally started arguing remote hooking is broken due to the total time saved with each remote hook
2. I calculated the theoretical maximum value of remote hooking and compared it to the value of other perks to quantify its relative strength (compared to Pop and SFTBFL)
3. You argued that, if time saved were so important, especially under my logic, then chase perks would be some of the strongest
4. You brought up an example with the time value saved on 'Make Your Choice' using my logic to showcase the potential flaws with the logic
5. I ended up agreeing with the calculations and saying the perks you listed, including the 'Make Your Choice' perk have very strong effects. In the case of the ideal MYC scenario, it did rival remote hooking.
6. I also noted that all of the strongest perks in your list had restrictions that were designed to specifically make them less reliable due to their innate strength, and was ready to argue that removing the inconsistencies in their designs (to make it comparable with the consistency of Remote Hooking), would instantly make them meta (i.e. top tier, most used, the best)
7. There is also the argument by you, weaved throughout this debate, that gen control or regression perks are the strongest perks and that restoring time lost is more valuable than saving time

Unless I'm missing something in that summary, I'll start responding now:

They are strong, but not broken, or even near best if you talk about generic killer perks. They are usually good only for selected killers.

It's not really that strong when it is good only on few killers

Doesn't this prove my point though?

We both acknowledge that the listed chase perks, whose value comes from saving time (like remote hooking), are strong. No dispute on my end there.

For the second half of the quote I'm assuming you're arguing that, despite being strong, they are not broken nor the best because 'they are usually good only for selected killers.' I would also agree with this statement, because why would a Nurse need bamboozle? Or Huntress/Trickster/Deathslinger need Spirit Fury + Enduring? Why would anyone want Blood Favor when it can be cleansed at the start of a match?

However these killer-specific limitations, or the perk restrictions themselves don't apply to Remote Hooking because it doesn't have them. These perk strengths are just a proxy to argue for the strength of remote hooking, but remote hooking doesn't actually have the weaknesses that limit the viability of these strong perks.

If anything, it sounds to me, and I would agree, that you're saying that these perks comparable in value to Remote Hooking are very strong but they are not broken specifically because they have these limitations holding them back. However if we removed Blood Favor's issue of inconsistency (i.e. it's no longer a hex perk), Coupe's issue of inconsistency (effect controllable by the killer, not the survivor), and ignored some killers outright not getting value out of some perks (nurse/bamboozle), aren't these perks immediately peaking the perk strength charts and becoming meta?

That last question is particularly important because Bamboozle and Spirit Fury/Enduring, the perks without significant restrictions that provide great value, actually are meta (i.e. the best) on the killers who can use them effectively. So I think that gives support to the idea that, without those conditions holding the chase perks back, yes, these perks would be some of the strongest in the game.

The reason I bring that up is because Remote Hooking, the feature of the perks who you chose to represent, is not a hex. It is controllable by the killer. Every killer can get value from Remote Hooking. The same limitations that existed on the aforementioned chase perks that provide similar maximum value to Remote Hooking but hold them back from being broken, do not apply to Remote Hooking, since it does not have them. Remote hooking is just a free effect, by itself, with no impactful restrictions, and with a similar massive time saved value as these other perks who have to be held back by conditions to keep them from being overbearing.

I can't help but think this supports my argument on how strong Remote Hooking is, because the perks that give similar value are/can be equally overbearing but are only restrained by their innate restrictions - none of which Remote Hooking has.

That's why I picked Wraith. He can reliably get that. Even just two downs would in theory match the time saved by remote hooking, yet it's nowhere near as effective compare using Surge on Wraith.

Putting aside my logic as to the value of time saved for a moment (since it would inflate MYC's numbers, but not Surge's) and just looking at the raw numbers:
Surge is about 7 sec shaved off each gen it hits per down. MYC, using your own numbers, shaved off 40 seconds per chase/down?

I'm actually a little curious what logic you use to determine Surge is more effective than MYC, especially since you've stated you can reliably get MYC procs with Wraith.

Even on killers they [chase perks] are consistent, they are niche. Survivors have a counterplay against it.

Yes, that's the point I wanted to make.

Chase perks are strong because of the time saved, but are not broken because of their niche uses/limitations/restrictions/counter-play, which Remote Hooking doesn't have. See first section (under summary) above for details.

Exactly same counterplay against remote hooking. If survivors prevent your downing/picking up, you won't get any value.

Okay now I'm a bit lost, because we're back to using minimum values as an argument as to why remote hooking isn't good.

This isn't a valid argument though because nearly everything has a minimum value of 0 in this game if you can't use it. Pain Resonance and Pop must be terrible perks, even pre-nerf, because they also do nothing if a survivor prevents you from downing or picking someone up. Hex: Pentimento + Plaything must be equally awful for the same reason.

Using this logic, everything must suck because you can get 0 value out of it.
What's good then?

All it does is saving few seconds when you manage to hook a survivor.

This is very valuable though, as supported by the chase perks you chose to represent Remote Hooking.

We agreed they were strong, even meta in some cases, but not broken due to their limitations - limitations that if removed, arguably do make them even more meta/broken. Limitations Remote Hooking does not have.

I can match that time easily with any slowdown perk. With those unless it's just blocking type it can increase in value without really a limit per game.

I hear this claim, but I still don't see the logic behind it.

Slowdown perks, like Pain Resonance or Pop, reactively affects one gen per down/hook.
Remote hooking by itself indirectly affects every gen by proactively getting multiple people off them sooner.

The raw time saved by those slowdown perks in an ideal scenario vs 99% gens (~18 sec each?) is matched by the time saved of the killer in an ideal scenario (16 sec wiggle timer). The main difference is how many people get affected, with one generator being reactively affected with slowdown perks, and 2-3 people's generators being proactively affected by Remote Hooking.

Yes, regression perks are also accompanied by passive regression (0.25c/s I think?), but right now I'm still neglecting the value of preventing saves, the time it takes killers to walk back after traveling in that ideal scenario, and the time value of the person being hooked sooner. Pain reso is also limited to 4 hooks, and Pop requires travel time -further lowering their values which I did not include. I could include those restrictions here though, because they are not a proxy for Remote Hooking, they are the direct meta perks we're comparing strength to.

I just don't see how slowdown perks are even close to being equal to the value of Remote Hooking, never-mind matching it.

And why is the wiggle mechanic that important? To prevent killers from hooking far away, when the remote hook mechanic specifically targets the closest hook?

@VomitMommy

This debate is getting a bit lengthy and repetitive, so I'll attempt to shorten it a bit.

No, your claim is the remote hooking as mechanic is broken. When it's not true for other perks with same or better effect, it doesn't make sense why it would work like this.

Because I understand the difference between saving time and slowing/getting time back.

Devour Hope, Undying, MYC, Flood of rage is decent build, all about saving time. But it's simply not good overall.

We're just going in circles at this point.

Yes, the perks you mention here are not meta - they are not the strongest.
The effects are good, the potential time-saving value is great, but they are inconsistent due to their innate perk flaws that were intentionally designed to inhibit their strength. One is a hex, the other has a cool-down, an exposure limit, and the general need to find an extremely alert survivor who may be getting body blocks.

There are so many conditions to the perks you list that Remote Hooking does not have, that it's disingenuous to compare them.

Imagine if Devour Hope wasn't a hex and all tokens were permanent? Or what if MYC had no cool-down and the exposure was permanent? Suddenly these perks become overpowered and unfair right? I'd be surprised if you said no.

That's the degree their restrictions inhibit the perks effects and overall power. Remote Hooking does not have these abnormal restrictions. The best argument for its restrictions are downing somebody, but that's anything but abnormal, since it happens in every game.

Sure, you can bring up the minimal value argument again, where you could get no hooks in a game, like below:

Effect is simply not as strong for it to be better than perks that actually do something for you. Remote hooking does something only of you are able to perform well even without any help from the perk....

But then that argument applies to everything and provides no value to the conversation.

Otherwise Pop/Pain must be terrible since they '[do] something only if you are able to perform well even without any help from the perk.' But that's not true, is it?

It does affect each killer differently. Remote hooking is not strong on killers with low lethality, they can't efficiently use the time it gives.

It's good only on killer who can get a down quickly from start of the game and keep downing survivors reliably. That's why I think it would be best for Blight.

Comparing who can utilize time the most efficiently is just a killer balance issue, and doesn't say much to the overall strength of remote hooking itself.

Is ~10 seconds saved on Blight more valuable than an immobile and relatively weak killer like Myers? Sure.
Does that make remote hooking more valuable on Blight than Myers? Again, sure.

But how does remote hooking compare to the other options Myers has? Does Myers have many other outstanding options that would exceed the value of remote hooking? Just because other killers are innately stronger than him and therefore use the perk more efficiently, does that mean it's a bad perk on him? Arguably no to all of those questions. He has 4 perk slots to boot, so I would not be surprised if remote hooks like in the event found their way into his build.

The really important questions here are:

1. How does the perk/feature perform relative to an individual killer's other options?
2. How does that same perk/feature rank among all killer's preferred perk/feature options?

Remote hooking, especially as it was in the event, is such a strong effect that if made into a perk, I am certain it would find itself into nearly everyone's build. Why? Because the value is high, the consistency is there, its generally useful on everyone, and there's no downsides that I can think of. That is incredibly strong, and I would say broken.

Support for my theory here can also be found in the event itself. These abilities were specifically designed to be as inclusively useful and strong as possible for all killers, so as not to exclude anyone from their use. The fact they designed them for the express purpose that everyone would use them, especially as an alternative to remote pallet breaking (which we both agreed previously is nuts in itself) is support for the idea that remote hooking is strong and everyone would continue to use them if given the chance.

Ideal scenerio is gen regressing to 0....

Yes, which would take 5 minutes of none of the 4 survivors touching the generator in that time to reduce to 0.
I personally thought that swayed away from the ideal scenario and more into a unrealistic one.
If you want to include it, that's fair, but keep in mind I excluded other time-saving factors of remote hooking out of convenience which I'd then have to include. Such as:

1. Traveling back from a hook
2. The other 3 hook stages after the first 8 (before someone dies)
3. Time value related to preventing (or reducing) saves

I have a good hunch that the time value of the above 3 scenarios exceeds that of the passive 0.25c/s regression though. Then again, that would imply you believe in my logic on how to calculate time value, which I don't think you do.

Oh right, because remote hooking made it so you got to actually use that time for anything valuable. Not really.

For most killers 6 seconds per hook is nothing. Especially if you are not slowing the game down with other perks.

Look at it this way, those 6 seconds you saved from remote hooking, if you use it to kick a gen means only 1.5 charges on generator from regression. That's nothing...

Your value amount (x4) is irrelevant compare to real time. Real time in the game is what matters and is difference between winning and losing. Slowdown perks affect real time value of the game. That's why they will always be better.

Why are you using your time to kick a generator that you yourself admit does nothing without the appropriate supportive perk to amplify this decision choice in the first place?

It would be my hope that you would use the time saved by remote hooking to find and pressure survivors faster, instead of doing actions that give no benefit. The time saved, which I'm very generously accepting as 6 seconds to prevent separate debate, is only useful if you're being proactive.

One of the benefits of time-saving features like Remote Hooking is it enables you to make plays sooner. But if you waste that time doing actions that don't benefit you, like kicking a generator for no reason, then of course it won't provide value. As soon as you remote hook, use that time to pressure the map - chase someone. Can't find anyone? Go search the gens.

Every second you spend on the map being proactive with the time you saved, is an extra second you forced people off gens into that awkward hooked/chase/rescue and/or heal/misc scenario where the only person getting anything done is potentially the 'misc' party. In solo queue, there's a good chance they're not doing anything either because you're nearby or they think they have to rescue too; but even if that last person is repairing, that's still one second worth of pressure on everyone else for each second you started this process sooner.

As a side note:
I still find it funny how I used to watch arguments about the killer's time being 4x more valuable than survivors when people talked extinguishing boons but here it's simply irrelevant. I'm not saying you argued that, but I did find it funny. I guess different strokes for different folks.

Preventing Sabo saves. It just was possible to fleshlight save against it, in my experience pallet save worked too, but hard to prove now...

You know where I stand with this, but it's anecdotal evidence on both sides so there's no point arguing it.

That said, you did state saving was more difficult against remote hooking earlier as the window is at least smaller. Although my belief is the killer needs to mess up for it to be possible, at the very least the increased difficulty and reduced chance of a save still has value that I felt the need to point out. Even if neither of us can/have quantified that value.

They are not matching it, they are way better.

Your value is just a theory concept. It doesn't work when you try to compare it with real time values.

I hear this claim, but you haven't explained to me why other than just repeatedly stating it.

You've been lowering the amount of time remote hook gives to a theoretical average (6 seconds), which I haven't dispute since that's another debate. Since we're doing averages though, I'll use the half-way point on a gen for my theoretical average for pain/pop (45 * 0.2 = 9).

How is the 9 seconds of average gen damage by Pain or Pop, that affects a single generator on any single proc so superior to the 6 seconds saved off hook time? Unless you're running around kicking generators without any gen kick perks or otherwise wasting time, that time 6 seconds of killer time saved will at least affect:

1. The hooked individual by giving them 6 seconds less time to be in a game
2. The next survivor to be chased, who gets found 6 seconds earlier
3. The rescuer, who has to stop repairing 6 seconds earlier to rescue/heal
4. Potentially the 4th survivor who might want to rescue as well, or get involved with the chase 6 seconds earlier

You're killing the hooked survivor faster, you're finding people faster, you're forcing unhooks faster which in turn reduces hook state and progress faster - you're accelerating and pressuring the game faster.

That 9 second regression seems to fail in comparison, as it will only affect the survivor who is or will be repairing it next. Yes, it can passively regress at a rate of -0.25c/s afterwards; but that's still going to take another 60 seconds of no one repairing it to bring it up to 24 seconds of time gained for the killer, which is the same amount of collective time the game accelerated by with remote hooking just then.

if you I block all gens, or regress a gens that were finished in the end, then it does affect all players in the game. So they should be multiplied too.

Sorry, I don't know what this is referring to or asking.

If you compare time saved equally, remote hooking is just not even close, yet alone "broken".

Please show me how, because I do not see this light yet.

Basically if you are falling behind, then remote hooking does nothing for you. It's usually simply win more perk.

If you're falling behind and struggling to gets hooks, then hook-based regression perks do nothing for you either - I don't see the argument here.

Funny is the outcome when you need specific hook, for example Hag inside 3-gen, and remote hooking sends the survivor behind you. What of those perks actually is able to lose you a time?

Just like slugging and scourge hooks have a risk and a trade off, so does remote hooking.

By all means, if you want to run hook-specific set-ups and are afraid of this outcome of a wrong hook - don't use it.
Likewise, if you are running scourge hooks and are afraid someone will sabotage the hook you need, I recommend you don't use it.
Or if you're not confident that you can chain down people, I recommend you don't slug.

These options aren't weak because they have innate risks and limits - they're still strong.
They just risks and scenarios you have to gauge and play around, which makes the game interesting.

If you want to use the minimal value argument where nothing has value if it doesn't work though, again, we can do that for literally everything in the game. Even a nurse blink is useless if you can't land it.

I think overall you are not looking at this correctly. Whole idea about multiplying saved time by 4 is weird. Killer's time is matching real time 1:1

I'd love to know your stance on the old boon/extinguish argument from old then.
Since killer and survivor time is valued in a 1:1 ratio, which side do you think loses the trade when a boon is placed and subsequently extinguished? Is it the survivor who spent 14 seconds placing it, or the killer who spent 14 seconds finding and extinguishing it?

Since the time value is a 1:1 ratio, surely the repeated action of setting up a boon and extinguishing it in the same amount of time it took to set up has a net neutral impact on the game, right?

I think you underestimate the value that each second saved has in the killer's favor.

Maybe it's best to agree to disagree then.

@VomitMommy

Chase is another aspect, 6 seconds from average chase is not really a big deal.

Your time comparison seems better because of your multiplying system, which is simply incorrect. If you compare it as real time value, which is only thing that matters for killer, it's falling behind.

That's not true, single trigger of pop/pain res on 1/2 gens left is actually a big deal and is definetly something to give you chance for comeback. Because it gives you more time to do something with it (not 6 seconds)….
I can't say that for remote hooking.

That's kinda why all perks should compare real time values, not imaginary amount from theory.

The time a single trigger of pain res gives at half value is 9 seconds, it is usable 4x per match, and has similar (albeit slightly harder) conditions to use than remote hooking (down + hook at a specific place, relative to just downing).

The time a single trigger of Pop gives at half gen value is also 9 seconds, is usable 11 times (same amount of times as remote hooking), and has a slightly harder condition (down + hook relative to just downing).

Even if we, to my own disfavor, do not use half-way wiggle point when carrying of 8 seconds and prefer instead to use the arbitrarily chosen 6 second average value you picked out, the time values are still similar. Remote hooking also has more lax conditions.

We are looking at raw values right now, while still neglecting the other benefits of remote hooking (namely reduced save opportunities, saved time walking back from a hook) to offset the value of passive 0.25c/s regression, for simplicity's sake.

So can you explain to me why, without relying on anecdotal evidence, that Pop or Pain's (you choose) raw 9 seconds of time saved on a single generator is so vastly superior to remote hooking generously low-balled 6 seconds of time saved with easier use conditions?

You're quick to criticize my logic, but I've yet to see you offer an alternate logical view point that extends past 'that's how it works' or 'everything sucks if you can't use it.'

So there is a limitation even for remote hooking…

It's a risk, not a limit.

You can use remote hooking on every down with no limit, as long as the brief 20 sec CD elapsed (which it should, given you stated the average chase time is about 50 sec?).

You can also slug without a limit until they die, but you risk them have unbreakable, getting healed, etc.. You risk not getting benefit here as well, but there's no limit.

Meanwhile scourge hooks, pain resonance anyway, that has a limit. You can only use it 4x per match until it's gone forever.
Scourge also has the additional risk of not getting a scourge hook though.

Remote hooking doesn't create pressure, it gives you option to do so slightly faster, but it doesn't guarantee it. You have pressure from downing, but remote hooking had nothing to do with it.

Doing things faster is arguably the definition of pressure in many games, including this one.

Ever play an FPS?
If people continually rush down your position without a break, I guarantee you'll feel more pressure than if they did it in bursts that allowed for breathing room.
Likewise, if the timer on your game is ticking and you need to capture a flag soon or you lose the game - I guarantee you'll feel pressured to do that soon as well.

Same logic applies here.
If the killer is repeatedly running down the survivors without break periods (which is the carry period), that's increased pressure.
If the survivor gets hooked and the timer to their next hook stage/death starts faster, that's increased pressure.

And yes, remote hooking does guarantee you pressure.
It guarantees you hook faster, it guarantees the person is dying sooner, it guarantees that other survivors will need to react sooner, it also guarantees you are off and finding people quicker. The sheer act of accelerating the process of hooking means you are guaranteed to accelerate the subsequent parts of the game.

It is not a question of if this happens - it always happens when you use the remote hook ability and it saves you time.

You argue the time saved is negligible, but as shown above, even in the most beneficial conditions where I'm letting you set the times without much dispute, the raw time saved (which excludes my time value logic) still nears the value of the top meta gen regression perks (6 vs 9 seconds). It also does that without their limitations (4x use for Pain res), easier use conditions (down + scourge hook for Pain, down + travel + gen kick for Pop). And I repeat, that I'm still excluding the other 3 benefits remote hooking gives to offset passive 0.25c/s regression - benefits that I'm certain will exceed its value.

So basically only thing that is affected is a survivor for your next chase, that's it. Noother survivor is really affected by it, they can keep doing whatever they want.

So the person on the hook isn't dying sooner than if they were hooked normally? The other two also don't feel the need to rescue the person faster? They're okay with letting them hit second stage or die?
There's no possibility that the chased survivor is leading the killer away from the hook, which is standard practice, and likely closer to the objectives of the other two survivors, or at least running past them?

I suppose they can do what they want.
With that logic, I guess they could be in a locker with Left Behind and a purple key, waiting for everyone else to die. It's another minimal value argument that affects everything - not just remote hooking.

I can make it work. Killer's time is 1:1. Survivor's time is 1:4.

I don't understand this, what is killer's 1:1 a ratio to?
You're saying 1 second of his time is equal to 1 second of… whose time?

Likewise, I'm not sure what the 1:4 ratio is insinuating.
You're saying 1 second of a survivor's time is equal to 4 seconds of… whose time?

If killer is wasting time, there is no other killer to progress the game / slow the game for you.
If 1 survivor does nothing, other three can keep working on gens / healing. So progress of that side is not halted. You can't say that for killer…

This is the answer I was looking.

You're right, if the killer is wasting time, there is no one else to slow the progress of the game.
Meanwhile if a survivor is doing nothing, there's the potential for 3 others to still be doing something.

So if survivor A was keeping the killer occupied for 30 seconds, both survivor A and the killer lose that 30 seconds equally.
However, survivor's B, C, and D can, by your own words, 'keep working on gens / healing. So progress of that side is not halted.'

Another way to look at is, even though survivor A and the killer are busy for 30 seconds, survivors B, C, and D have been totally free and potentially progressed the game by 90 seconds in that same time frame. That was the primary (and appropriate) response against the argument to 'just extinguish the boon!' from the old boon debates. It's also the 1:4 time ratio that my logic was based around early in this conversation.

There's two ways to look at this that I find helpful.

—

Option #1 (interesting view):

The killer is at an innate disadvantage in terms of quantity of time spent on the map by nature of its role, since they're outnumbered 1 to 4. The reason this game works despite those odds, and the reason killers have such a high win-rate by the data (60%), is because this difference time quantity is balanced out by time quality. The killer's time is, by design, more impactful than survivors.

A killer's time is so impactful that every second a killer spends needs to be worth roughly 4 seconds of a survivors time just to break even with them doing anything on the map. That's not just a theory, it's a rule - it has to be. It does not matter how it's achieved, but the killer must have enough agency and strength to either propel its own time quality to match that of the collective survivor group, or to bring their time quality down so their total quantity matches his level. If killer doesn't, they would be overwhelmed. By that logic, a killer's time has to be worth roughly 4x more than a survivor's time.

Option #2 (simple view):

Every second the killer is doing something, the survivors are doing 4 seconds worth of something else.
If you take a second to do something that disrupts 4 people, that's 4 seconds worth of disruption occuring (1:4 ratio).

—

That's why I multiplied the time saved value by 4 for remote hooking, but not for regression perks.

Regression perks just reduce the progress and time of a single generator that only affects, really, one person. Hit a gen for 9 seconds? One person reverses that in 9 seconds, or maybe 2 duo it in 5 seconds.

Remote Hook though?

That ~6 second rest period when carrying a survivor after downing? Gone - no survivor gets it.
The hooked survivor's timer starts 6 seconds earlier.
The chased survivor is found and chased 6 seconds earlier.
The rescuer, even if they don't leave the gen immediately, has to do so 6 seconds sooner when they eventually choose to.
The fourth survivor? Could be repairing, could be interrupted - who knows? Who cares?

The main point is that you deprive survivors of 6 seconds of time they would otherwise have free reign on (you're occupied, you can't stop them). Not only that, you're putting pressure on them sooner. You're being proactive and forcing them to act sooner. Unlike gen regression, you aren't affecting one person - you're affecting everyone.

Not only that, but there was no restrictions to remote hooking. No limits. You could do it every hook if you wanted to - keep the pressure up indefinitely without a break. That still doesn't include the value of save reduction, nor walking back from a hook. It doesn't matter what killer you play, or who makes best use of it, that benefit was always present, and is always strong.

There's a reason why kill rates increased by, what was it, 10% on nightlight during the event?
Though, honestly, I'm sure remote pallet breaking had a large hand in that too (man I hated that event)

But yeah, I stand firm in saying it was so broken.