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Singularity is Miserable

dbd900bach
dbd900bach Member Posts: 734

I was extremely excited to see Singularity get some buffs in the ptb, giving me the itch to play so I waited. I waited. Why? Because playing Singularity is a miserable experience and I wanted to wait till the update to play but that hasn't happened yet.

I grew impatient, played a game and remembered why I don't play him anymore. The effort needed to make him even remotely work far surpasses any value you get out of that effort. Micro managing everything and constantly having to keep up the pressure which is heavily negated by emps which Suvivors seem to always have 24/7 except for these small gaps. Indoor maps are even worse to play on.

So I am freaking begging to know when any kind of changes will go live if any are to go live at all since we've gotten no word about the ptb.

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Comments

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,809

    All I've seen so far is the auto aim has been dropped, as feedback from Singularity players was that it took skill expression away from him. Other than that I don't think we've heard anything.

  • Objectively_speaking
    Objectively_speaking Member Posts: 514

    Do not play base singularity, you need soma family photo if you even want to play a game and get a hit. BTW without photo your power runs out before you can hit with singularity every single time unless the survivor makes a mistake. If the survivor holds W you will not be able to get a hit in your power.

  • Langweilg
    Langweilg Member Posts: 1,416
    edited July 10

    Do you mean the auto-aim when you enter cameras, which automatically looked at survivors or do you mean the auto-aim for shooting survivors while walking to tp?

    I think the automatic looking at the survivor in the cameras was ridiculous, but the aiming while walking to shoot survivors needs a aim-assist for controller.

    Post edited by Langweilg on
  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895

    maybe the killer just isn't for you.

    auto aiming in cameras felt nice, but it def made him way easier than he should've been for what he's capable of, especially in comparison to the effort it would take to start dealing with singularity that can actually infect people.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,545

    I woulda just made it a option for console users but I know they don't really do that much. But trickster has gotten a change like that for console in the past.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,809

    If I recall correctly, it was the auto aim of the cameras

  • Langweilg
    Langweilg Member Posts: 1,416

    I‘m glad they removed it, it was very unfair, but hopefully they reverted the increased time to tp to it‘s former time again.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895

    i really hope they do, it was a direct nerf to good singularity players bc you could manually aim & tag people faster than you would tag them with autoaim and increased tagging time.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,052

    they technically nerfed sing by reducing m/s from 5% →3%, reducing amount of overclock you get so it can time out easier and lock-on time is longer.

    They also nerfed cam tech and now force you to use a green add-on for lower cam cooldown instead of…. you know… buffing cooldown base-kit. like an actual buff.

    I suspect that less people will play singlurarity because he is strictly worse and has more perk dependency. Like before rapid brutality was not required. in new iteration, you RELY on the perk.

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 380

    No offense but that's a you issue.

  • ColdCobalt
    ColdCobalt Member Posts: 50

    This is how I feel with singularity as well. In nearly every game I play, I will get at least a 2K, but I feel like I have to try as hard as possible to even achieve that. I know that it's a skill issue and that there are some insane singularity players out there, but I can say that his play style is just not for me.

  • dbd900bach
    dbd900bach Member Posts: 734

    I appreciate the advice, I really do. Thinking about a better way to play him certainly helps, though its fundamentally frustrating at times when it feels like you have no power. When making this post, I wasnt preening that Singularity should be easier to play, but more so that his power should feel more rewarding for the intense macro playstyle needed to play him.

  • Royval
    Royval Member Posts: 744
    edited July 10

    yeah in his current state (live) he feels extremely awful and clunky to play I wish emp worked like Weskers spray cans.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    Yeah to be fair I come from Ghostface as my 'main', so a setup Killer with delayed payoff is what I'm used to. Singularity compared to Ghosty however makes Marked stalks a joke with how much you can get with how little comparative effort is involved.

    With Ghosty it is super macro-intensive, as I have to sneak along edges, track everyone's location, intercept a rescuer to force others off of gens or soak the 2nd hook state, force good pallet drops, and all that to get an Exposed down or stealth hit here and there. With Singularity, I can get a far more micro intensive gameplay, but far far far more macro reward. My first chase can often result in 3-5 good pallets being deleted for the rest of the match, at near no investment compared to Ghosty, but it still takes the continuous mental energy. (Place biopod, shoot Surv 1, TP on Surv 1, force a pallet drop, kick at 1.75 speed, Surv 2 EMPs Surv 1, Tag Surv 2, keep chasing Surv 1, Tag Surv 3 on a gen to force an EMP, get a hit or pallet from Surv 1 not realizing the shrunken TR was from tagging Surv 3 but sticking on Surv 1, finally get the down on Surv 1 and check a few pods to get all Surv locations and know where to go next, then hook Surv 1 where it helps you and hurts them the most.)

    A good Singularity is similar to (and even more effective than) a good Dredge, and you can make all Survivors 'feel' like they are pressured at all times. The key to Singularity is reaching a rhythm or flow state, where all your actions neatly connect into the next action. When you can establish a rhythm, it doesn't feel stressful (for you, and ultra stressful for the Survs), but without enough experience, it is painful.

  • dbd900bach
    dbd900bach Member Posts: 734

    I find Ghostface and Dredge to be far more easier in terms of macro play. Keeping track of survivors is easy when they're the only thing you need to keep track of. The game keeps track of marks for you.

    Dredge on the other hand is a comeplete aggression type playstyle. Certainly similar to what you described in terms of finding a flow state, but when comparing the two Singularity is punished more harshly for mistakes. However, both can be the most oppressive killers in the game under the right circumstances. Excluding the obvious like Blight and Nurse.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    I think the main difference with Ghosty and Singularity is advancing your power on them pressures them with Singularity, but not with Ghostface. Ghosty doesn't let the Survivors 'feel' the pressure (unless they are chase stalking, in which case they are going to lose anyways). Singularity can partially chase multiple Survivors at once, and they all 'feel' that pressure. Ghosty works best when they don't know you stalked them, yet Singularity works best when they are always 'feeling' stalked/tagged.

  • Langweilg
    Langweilg Member Posts: 1,416

    I play on console and I think it would be better if you could shoot yourself without targeting a survivor for 0,6s. This could allow to hit people like with a huntress hatchet behind stuff or to aim at a hand that you see sticking out behind a box.

    Shure it is disorienting to go into cams, but it‘s not that big of a problem, you get used to it by playing him more. I just don‘t think automatic looking at someone is the solution, when they would have added this they could have made the killer player an AI as well.

    Ideally they have a different solution for this; I would prefer having something where you see survivors highlighted like dredge does during nightfall or infra red. The targeting in my opinion is not that hard, my problem is more people instantly being behind stuff.

  • Objectively_speaking
    Objectively_speaking Member Posts: 514

    Tldr, Basekit singularity sucks, you do need soma to get hits because good survivors will just hold checkspots. Singularity cannot dash towards you or hit you from afar they have to walk to hit you.

    Better survivors run to windows not to pallets, and if you hold proper checkspots base singularity should never get the hit in power unless, key word here, UNLESS survivors make a mistake. You literally cannot get a hit in power if they hold w your boost will run out before a hit. You can see this. Without soma you will not get a hit unless a survivor makes a mistake, if you got a hit in power then that survivor made a mistake. Actually play the killer and you will see how awful he is. Soma is literally needed to get hit otherwise the survivor can vault or rerun the loop etc.

    Basekit, your Macro means nothing if every hit takes 5 to ten seconds for first goop, Emped for 5 seconds, another ten seconds for second goop, then a tp <basekit so survivor needs to make a mistake> so eight seconds for a pallet or hit, repeat till down etc. it adds up to forty or fifty seconds chases but better survivors will ruin it for you. Sure they wont play perfect but you wont either so the outcome is they same.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,658

    It's why I hate the term "skill expression." It's just used to fit whatever the current narrative on a killer is. Unless the auto-aim would cause you to miss someone you would have hit (i.e the auto-aim on M1s), why would you want it removed? I must again question people who supposedly main these killers, yet view buffs to them as a detriment to the game, no matter how minor or severe. This killer in particular, as others have gone into detail on, has nothing going for him 90% of the match, and is a trumped-up noob crusher. Even against noobs, "What this device? Disable the killah's power? Me use this all match long!" and as long as 1 person minimum is doing gens, whether they take 5 minutes to do or 10, even they could beat Singularity! He's infecting people, or he's spreading damage, but never both, and a lot of the time neither.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477
    edited July 11

    I don't even know if it's about aim assist or auto aim, I mean they've stated weird text of "increased EMP radius to 10 meters" when in fact it has always been 10meters

    What's happening in singularity team even, it's so… inconsistent, I think

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,658

    A Singularity that can actually infect people, aka getting lucky, or they focused down 1 survivor for a 45-sec minimum chase which'll still cost him the first 2 gens, or half of a remaining one.

    If you think this killer's so easy to just pick up and win, you must really have it out for killers like Wraith, Myers, Pig, etc, you know, who see tournament play alongside Singularity because they're so simple easy to win with.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,658

    Yeah, because even on PC it made no sense that he's recoiling from throwing knives like he's got a gun. And he still alternates throwing hands on every other knife, so still unfeasible on console against survivors who aren't standing still. Don't even get me started on how hard PC survivors could bully him, with their ridiculous turn rate.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,658

    Don't be so modest. It's easy to be gaslit that a killer becomes way better if you simply have more skill. That does a lot for those M1 killers, doesn't it?

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,658

    This is bananas. You don't even understand EMPs in relation to gen pressure, of which there is none with this killer. The time investment of getting EMPs is so worth it, it's not even funny. Singularity can set up a well-placed camera that covers all workable sides of the gen, and then as soon as he infects someone, they EMP, which undoes the infection and disables the camera for a hideous amount of time. Now what? He's forced to manually walk over there, and either replace the camera/regress gen or infect/chase 1 survivor off. Either way, huge time waste which is a net positive for survivors because he's still only interrupting 1-2 people. Or he can do none of those things, let them have the gen for free, because they'll EMP his camera again if he tries to stop it, and instead chase the survivor near him, who with or without an EMP will waste too much of his time anyway that he can't possibly make up. The only way he'd get any amount of pressure rolling is if all 4 survivors looked for EMPs at the start instead of gens, 1 got interrupted by Singularity while trying to get one, and then had a really bad quick chase. Even then, he needs that process to rinse and repeat nonstop the whole match, while counting hooks so he doesn't go for more than 1-2 at a time (an auto-loss), which almost can't happen because the EMPs not only generate automatically, but can also wipe out multiple infections and/or multiple cameras at once, of which 1 instance of that is an auto-loss. When the survivors can just rebound so easily, because the Singularity has to do so much for so little, what even is "the wrong play" that they could possibly make?

    Y'all keep taking about this magical world where a certain killer is always in advantage and can always rebound if he always does this scientifically broken down thing, but in practice it virtually never lines up with what I and others see or are physically capable of. It stinks of smurf-esque opposition, confirmation bias, and luck. You'd have to experience the most successful, no-misplay series of matches to even come close to these conclusions. Because in my experience, 1 player knows how to loop/counterplay, killer could lose the whole game. 4 players possess that knowledge, defeat is basically inevitable. Multi-thousand hour players like myself know this. The only killers that break this rule, because of just how much they can do at loops, how much map/chase pressure they have, or how easily they can get a hit, would be like Nurse, Blight with speed add-ons, Myers with purple add-ons AND the best possible map with no SWF involved. And it's still not foolproof. So if those killers are struggling, everyone besides them is most assuredly struggling. Just based off my experience with Trapper, Hag, Demogorgon (if using portals), Skull Merchant (set-up killers), I can see the countless weaknesses that Singularity has. Countless. He has more counterplay than Wraith and Hag, which is frankly shocking. I'm astonished, that killers like this get such high praise, because in the grand scheme of the game this is not viable. Viable killers can win vs good survivors who know the counterplay, not just against hammy survivors who don't know what they're doing.

    🤷‍♀️

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    Every Killer basekit sucks by that logic, but I'm pretty sure everyone runs at least double brown add-ons just to use the slots at bare minimum. Soma is a crutch for people who lack the mental capacity to understand the macro strength of Singularity's power. You save time by crossing vast distances by TPing, or to utilize the Spirit Fury/75% action speed boost.

    You only get a hit if a Survivor makes a mistake - Yeah that's DBD? I don't understand the point you are trying to make here? Only broken OP Killers get downs for free when Survivors don't make mistakes. Every chase is a matter of making less mistakes than your opponent to avoid hits/get hits. I've played the Killer extensively, and I friggin' love him. I only lose to significantly better players with Singularity, unlike other Killers I like such as Ghosty, who can lose to only mildly better players. (Or to compare to pre-addon nerf Blight, never lose when I make no mistakes, so it is essentially a free win [and I mostly used Adren Vial + Shredded Notes as a meme combo].)

    The Macro scenario you describe is only if the player is garbage at Singularity. It should take 3-5s max to tag someone, and the first TP just negates the time lost sitting still to tag. It also took a teammate 20s to grab the EMP and run over to the chase location, use the EMP, then run back to a gen, and they are getting tagged in the process giving the Singularity 2 choices of chase locations (Surv A or just used EMP Surv B), with both tagged now.

    I'm sure in your soloq match where you run against a baby-Singularity who doesn't know how to play the Killer, that's how EMP pressure works, but the second the Singularity uses their brain, it plays out as I've described. If the Surv had to burn an EMP to safely work a gen, then they don't have access to one when they need it more. Knowing someone is working the back gen is knowledge, and knowledge is power. Just because a baby Singularity doesn't know how to use that knowledge doesn't mean the knowledge itself is meaningless. If the situation you are describing is true, then a good Singularity will let them pump that gen and pressure the remaining 3 instead, forcing that back Surv to leave the safe EMPed zone to unhook/heal/EMP a Surv mid chase to prevent too quick a death, making that original EMP wasted (since it isn't actually preventing the Singularity from applying meaningful pressure). Sure, maybe if it is the final gen cross-map it would be relevant, but the majority of people across all skill levels burn EMPs like they are fireworks on a major holiday.

    I talk about how I play and have seen Singularity played. It isn't magic, it's simply using the brain I was born with, and the enemy Singularity doing the same. As far as 'smurf opposition' we all know MMR is incompetent, and doesn't even give proper matches the majority of the time, and Top MMR/Long MMR is a joke people use to falsely justify their hours spent. You don't need to 'fix your MMR' or 'derank to win again', the games matchmaking is garbage. Multi-thousand hour players like myself know this. All the game boils down to is which side makes fewer mistakes, yours, or the enemies'. When I play Killer, I am the only one making mistakes on my team, and I can abuse the potential for each independent Survivor player being worse than me, or get better and make fewer mistakes. When I play Survivor, all it takes is the Killer to use their brain and stop chasing me if I am juicing them in chase. Viable Killers can win vs good Survivors who know the counterplay when they are better than their opponents. If someone isn't good enough to win against good Survivors, they simply aren't that good of a Killer. When people crutch on the S-tier Killers, it distorts their mind into what they think is viable. When a Thana/Plaything/Penti Myers can win consistently in top MMR, that means the player is sufficiently skilled with Myers. When a player can only consistently win with top-tier Killers, they fundamentally lack the skill they often claim to have.

    If you want to make a separate argument for Tourneys, you can feel free to have that discussion with yourself, because no one queuing up in the game is queuing into a tournament match. Tourney matches are in customs, where showers are optional (but frowned upon) and fun is banned.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895

    killers like singularity who have big secondary objectives to play around, while also having power which design allows to severely punish mistakes and create tons of pressure on survivors shouldn't be easy. they're extremely oppressive if used right and singularity is the most potentially powerful out of all such killers because how complex his secondary objective resource management is in cases where singularity player is getting more than one tag per minute.

    devs did a good job adding aiming assist on teleport with m2 or placing cameras (even though that feels really clunky) which is what accessibility changes for this killer should be as controllers dont really allow precise aiming which was sometimes required when placing cameras or teleporting with m2.

    autoaim on cameras is just autopiloting the killer at this point though.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975
  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975

    It's not just the precision that's much more difficult with the controller, it's also the dead zones in the sticks and input delay with any button on them. Killers that needs snappy movement or to quickly swing around the camera to be effective & feel good to play will always be rougher with a controller.

    The best solution is finally adding M&K support for all platforms, and letting players use what they wish, but that ain't coming. I though this auto-aim idea was to help address this with Singularity, but now I think he'll just not be run again hardly ever on the consoles.

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519

    Here the thing tho… just because you don't have a issue aiming with controller don't mean other don't either. I seen alot more people talk about their experience on controller when it comes to aiming and seems the major of console players find aiming in DBD with a controller especially on sing. The best solution honestly is to add sensitivity bars to the console or finally add K&M support but it doesn't seem the devs are interested in these types of solutions. At end of the day I think it sucks and sad they removed a QoL that could helped a lot of console players without adding something else or even hint to plans of continuing to look into it. I'm a PC player personally but I'm ######### tired of BHVR overlooking console players.

  • Langweilg
    Langweilg Member Posts: 1,416

    I‘m not against adding things to help people, but this change made players basically a AI. Why does a player even play this killer if the game does everything for them and that was what the change did. It did automatically aim at the survivor and did automatically tp you. It would be the same if you made that you can‘t miss a hit with nurse anymore, because the game always tps you in front of the survivor.

    I agree that a bar would be better and having a higher sensitivity than 100. Mouse and keyboard support would be nice too.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 2,806

    I play on console. I would have enjoyed the option in my settings for auto aim at the very least for when I am in chase trying to shoot. Although I usually get it but it’s the junk it keeps sticking too, or hits the other pod that was unintentionally created lol.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895

    some characters are simply more mechanically challenging bc of their powers specifics and it's part of their learning curve.

    devs should`ve kept autoaim as a high rarity addon with downsides and called it a day, imo, but i guess they didnt want to deal with the next step of people complaining about accessibility locked behind an addon.

    im personally glad they, hopefully, settled on not adding it. yeah, it sucks for some players, they still have many other killers they can learn and play. as M&K player I'd rather have something to express particular M&K skills.

    A killer for everyone, not every killer for everyone.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975
    edited July 11

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975

    I'm curious, have you played Singularity with a controller, if you have one?

  • For_The_People
    For_The_People Member Posts: 599

    Damn, I don’t even play killer but even I found this fascinatingly informative! 🤖

  • BlackRose89
    BlackRose89 Member Posts: 519

    I hate that mindset. You basically saying it's okay to gatekeep a killer for controller players just so K&M players can keep their so call "skill expression" That's one of the lamest excuses I have ever seen and reeks of PC master race mind set. No every single killer by default should be playable on both console and PC. At the bare minimum killers should play smoothly on all versions of the game. It's pretty clear to me you never once played on controller.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895

    i dont play with the controller because i find it incredibly clunky for the kind of games i play and, frankly, i believe controllers are not the fitting gaming device for FPS part of the dead by daylight because they inherently are not made for sharp and precise movements that a lot of killers require on a higher level.

    I dont think the game or particular characters need to be dumbed down and correspondingly nerfed (in case of singularity he got a 33% increase for infection time which is massive overcompensation for the autoaim) which negatively affects the experience of people who aren't the target audience of the so called accessibility change.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895

    of course I didnt, because controller is a terrible way to play the kind of games I enjoy playing. Why should I force myself to play on inherently clunky and terrible device for my goals?

    i've seen a plenty of singularities doing necessary bare minimum for successful performance with the controller. it is harder, but is very much possible if you're familiar with the device. you rarely need instaflicks on cameras if you place cams properly.

    and i'd rather not have MY experience negatively affected by devs' futile attempts to make singularity equally playable for clunky controllers, since while adding the autoaim, they most likely decided it's a good reason to nerf lock on by 33% which is WAY bigger delay than it takes for skilled sng players to turn the camera manually.

    I think you should be glad they made other QoL changes like m2 aim assist or camera placement aim assist which is what you actually shouldn't have to struggle on any platform and which don't come at a cost of worsening the character for people that enjoy him already, instead of complaining about things that are an overkill and come at a bigger price than they should be.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975

    Hmmmm ok lemme try this then:

    You now work for BHVR, congrats!!! Let's get to work.

    Your team has been assembled because they're all highly knowledgeable with playing Singularity very well. It is pointed out almost nobody of the largest portion of the playerbase ever runs this killer, and the suspected reasons why.

    You're now tasked to look into Singularity's performance with a controller and to recommend possible changes. Sadly M&K support is not coming. What do you propose?

    And remember, no crunch they don't believe in that! 😂😜

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895
    edited July 11

    I see a high effort killer that most people won't ever pick up no matter the QoLs because he's too tedious and complex for the general audience that recognizes strength in "press m2, press m1, hit a simple skillshot, get a guaranteed hit" kind of killers.

    I also see that me desperately trying to make this killer appealing for larger group means removing anything that makes him special as it inherently involves gutting the aspects that people who don't play the character dislike about him.

    Let's prioritize "convenient" fun and "accessibility" over keeping niche well designed character niche and well designed.

    So, let's try to work with that. Im not going to be overdramatic and turn this killer into a skull merchant, but for him to be enjoyable for everyone, they'd literally have to do exactly that. Make cameras infect people on their own, NERF them accordingly, nerf EMPs so that they only do XYZ, nerf something else in his kit to compensate for that and so on back and forth.

    People won't play this killer because this is a type of killer that requires very high effort for not higher reward. Most people can barely play regular killers, such advanced characters (assuming you're expecting them to play them at high level that they normally reach pretty fast on conventionally strong killers) are like spaceshuttle board control for them.

    And then there are players who want something complex, maybe even slightly over the top, because they can put the necessary effort and have the reward.

    Meanwhile, there are indeed things that need polishing. His addon dependency. Clunky m2 priorities that make TPing or placing cameras awkward. Lack of certain obvious features to help optimization. Some addons being too unique for being just addons. Oh wait, look what BHVR just did. They did the best thing to make the character as accessible as they should be - they removed the requirement to have very-rare addon to have a fair reward for the effort, they added minor QoLs to smoothen the gameplay, added missing features and made the character easier to pick up without having to put millions in them.

    But they didn't add a handholding feature that removes the necessary skillshot aspect to earn your infections. Evil devs, how could they. They must hate their players and gatekeep the killer from them and listen to awful people like me. They definitely don't have common sense to recognize when accessibility stops being accessibility and becomes handholding.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895
    edited July 11

    singularity with autoaim was easier to use than to counter on lower levels. this is a very big problem for low-middle mmr (which is actually a noticeable different compared to softcap and above) because singularity is that kind of killer that is extremely oppressive and difficult to counter if he performs ever so slightly better than you & your team does due to his insane reactionary map mobility, high chase efficient power and punishing secondary objective that makes survivors lose the games if they sink too much time on it without good payback.

    manual aiming part was a necessary skill barrier to pass as it required you to learn positional awareness and actually find people on cameras instead of clicking on them and having them immediately find a person for you. autoaim removed the thinking process and focus from using cameras. you click on camera, if it flicked on anybody, you were good, if it didnt, there was no reason to stay in it anymore in most cases because the autoaim has ALREADY checked ALL 360 DEGREES of this camera's field of view for potential targets. removing these initial barriers turns characters into low mmr stompers as people that pick them up immediately perform their one sided skill input much better than their opponents instead of struggling there alongside them.

    it would've been one thing if auto aim just aimed your crosshair to the person already visible on the screen (which I personally have no problem with, assuming it doesnt come with compensation nerfs), but that wouldn't have been enough as most people place cameras in such a way, that they dont initially see the survivor once you enter the for the first time. they eventually learn to flick, because it's a more convenient way of adapting than changing the camera placement logic.

    and because of that, the autoaim has 360 degrees FoV awareness against 87 degrees FoV that camera has for the player.

    it allowed unexperienced / new players to skip all the basic learning part and treat cameras as slightly more elaborate SM drones. it also allowed more skilled players to use cameras to effortlessly locate survivors outside of camera's field of view. or hold 2 objectives on the opposide sides of the camera without having to manually look one direction and then the other.

    this was likely the reason devs decided to remove autoaim. Im sure they'll eventually bring it back once they figure out how to make it so it also keeps though process while accessing cameras and tagging people or to prevent camera finding people that person had no awareness of. Or they don't which would be for the better.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975

    I appreciate the thought out rundown on Singularity vs. the rest of the killer roster, and I do agree most of the changes are very good for him.

    What I'm hoping for is some kind of middle ground, where he is less clunky and unresponsive because of the input device I'm unfortunately having to use, and that being more vital than individual skill and time spent learning him. Ideally changes of this sort wouldn't greatly impact those who have spent that time figuring Singularity out as you obviously have. Be it changes to him, or some more robust game settings overall that help.

    For the longest time Trickster was wearing that crown of worst killer with a controller, actually unplayable on console, mostly due to the recoil. Since that was removed sadly Singularity is presently wearing it, not fully unplayable but now neatest to it. I don't want that.

    If you honestly believe it can't be done without crushing the skillful aspects of this killer so be it. Kinda hopeful he can be moved into a better spot though.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895
    edited July 12

    the middle ground is them not adding the autoaim (which works essentially like cheating, it doesnt just help aiming, it literally finds any survivor within cameras whole 360 FoV in mere moments) and keeping other, much more unambiguously healthy changes.

    I think that's fair.

    As for trickster, his rework had lots of issues and so far I heard that his mains are really unhappy, though their problems are less about recoil and more about knife / stat rebalance that made him into hybrid m1 / m2 instead of being m2 oriented.

    I dont think his case is much comparable, unless we assume that him being turned into hybrid with less dependency on knife was a direct result of devs deciding that him being pure m2 with much easier to hit power is too much for the strength that his power was supposed to have and therefore he had to be rebalanced to throwless knives / require more knives to hit and being forced to play as m1 as well.

    In that situation, this is exactly what Im worried will and has happened to singularity. 0.2 / 33% nerf was an example of that, though Im sure if they went through and let it be for a while, more nerfs would've come.

    EDIT: as for ways to find middleground in autoaim being there, I think it should only work for survivors that are within camera's current FoV (aka it aims at survivors that would've been already visible to the killer player). I would be fine with that, bc it wouldnt dumb down singularity too much and it wouldnt make cameras into omniscient tools capable of instantly locking onto the survivor within their possible field of view. However, that is only if they don't simultaneously nerf singularity alongside that, hurting his skill ceiling.

    My perception of this killer is that he is entirely about infinite skill ceiling. He can do A LOT, but he has to put effort into every action, doing it manually and with awareness. If they automate some actions, alongside slowing them doing, it goes against that vision and hurts his skill ceiling, reducing it as much as it reduces the skill floor. This is not good.

  • Toystory3Monkey
    Toystory3Monkey Member Posts: 895
    edited July 12

    so my comment got deleted after a few edits bc the system randomly decided it apparently needs to be approved. if it goes back, sorry for the spam.

    imo the only middle ground we could have had if we really want auto aim is that if we do not nerf singularity's lock on in any capacity in relation to autoaim and make it only react on survivors that would've been normally visible within camera's line of sight when you access it.

    in that case there wouldn't be situations where cameras just instantly find people for you or when they're nerfed to compensate for autoaim so hard, that it's overall net loss for anyone who wasn't struggling with camera controls in the first place.

    trickster is a good example of how killer was probably really badly changed into more boring hybrid bc devs had to compensate for accessibility change, resulting in them deciding to reduce the overall impact of the power and forcing more conventional gameplay on trickster players which they probably don't appreciate since they chose that character in the first place. That's anything but good.

    Im glad that so far it seems devs have recognized the issue and decided not to go through with the change that clearly cuts off the skill expression and reduces the skill ceiling alongside the skill floor. flicks are way faster than 0.2 seconds which is how much lock on was nerfed, which effectively means that autoaim didnt replace flicks, it just removed the ability to even infect people in situations where flicks could've helped. it is a small win for teleport scan, but these are way less common than infections.

    I would be really surprised tho if they still nerf the lock on time and they didnt nerf it bc of the autoaim, but for some other unrelated reasons.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,975

    Yeah the forums don't like multiple quick edits to a post. 😂🤣